Well, since you apparently can't stop the kids from doing these "pranks" and since anyone who wants someone killed for any reason could apparently use the same means as those "pranks" to actually get the cops to do it for him, rather than hire a professional hitman or do it himself, yeah, it sounds like some change is in order. Because someone got fucking killed over this.
Man killed after being "swatted" over $1 COD wager
- Thread starter Justified
- Start date
No matter how you look at this situation, there's a trend of people making bogus calls to police and SWAT for fun. There's needs to be a change in procedure to help prevent murders like this from happening in the future. Somebody opening a door unarmed shouldn't be shot immediately no questions asked. Every party here but the victim did something wrong.
wait so if the swat team is banging at your door you shouldnt open the door?
what?
no, its pretty dumb for a SWAT person to open fire on someone opening the door to an unverified threat
no amount of mental gymnastics will take away this simple truth
If you didn't do anything illegall, SWAT has no reason to take your life. None
Swatting does happen frequently. Dying from it doesn't but that doesn't mean I want armed men breaking down my door pointing assault weapons in my face. I fail to understand why this is not an issue for you.
You're not going to live in a world where people just stop being garbage. That's why policy and procedure exist. That's why we have safeguards. But I mean, maybe wjen we just have more people dying you'll take it more serious I suppose?
Getting shot while surrendering happens in this country all the time.
A lot.
They also appearantly did not investigate the situation properly at all. There are ways to do this. So what you're saying basically everyone can call a swat team to a random address with the intent of getting someone killed - and you don't think anything should be done about that?
I know you gonna blame the people who called the swat team, the fact that it's so easy to convince them about a - none existent - threat in order to get someone killed or injured isn't on them though, it's on the people who execute this, it's there responsibility to check if there's an actual threat.
Get ready for the news cycle on this. It's going to be nonstop. It's gonna get moral panic-filled and ugly.
Yeah, that's bullshit. That's the most shocking thing. Guy opens door and gets shot by police. Like wtf? I'm assuming the officer is on paid leave and will be back at it in a couple of weeks. bullshit
Where in the article does it state that an actual SWAT Team was deployed? Because all I can see is them explaining what "swatting" is, which doesn't mean that an actual SWAT Team is involved.
The police is obliged to take any and all calls seriously. The people taking the phone calls on dispatch are not trained psychologist which can analyze if people are lying on the phone in a matter of a few seconds. That's unfortunately just not how it works and in real scenarios every single second counts.
This situation in particular is just fucked up, because it doesn't seem that they got a better picture on the situation. We have seen a lot of these incidents in the past and luckily all of them turned out non-lethal for the people mistakenly involved.
The police is obliged to take any and all calls seriously. The people taking the phone calls on dispatch are not trained psychologist which can analyze if people are lying on the phone in a matter of a few seconds. That's unfortunately just not how it works and in real scenarios every single second counts.
This situation in particular is just fucked up, because it doesn't seem that they got a better picture on the situation. We have seen a lot of these incidents in the past and luckily all of them turned out non-lethal for the people mistakenly involved.
I disagree. I've seen many a stream/ recording of swatters swatting. They laugh about the prospects of getting pets/ people killed. This is what they harp on when they LITERALLY THREATEN people with swatting.
This is murder/ attempted murder.
I really would love to know the number of legit SWAT scenarios. I feel like I never hear of a legit case. You'd think these idiots would assume by now that it's probably a crank and that unless you have collaborating evidence from neighbors, assume it's a crank and proceed with extreme caution. I guess they don't really care. Adrenaline >> all else.
Except when do you ever hear of these events happening at private residences. And if they do, you can be sure it's by some psycho that the neighbors will all know about. The SWAT team could figure this out with a couple knocks on the neighbors door in these scenarios.
Depends on how you look at it. The intended victim wasn't the one who died. It was a neighbor minding their own business.
In this thread: people who don't understand what SWAT is (or riot/specialist police worldwide), thus diluting how dangerous swatting is right when it reaches what we were all expecting to come from the acts, and diverting much-needed focus.
You wanna talk police brutality? Brother, there ain't slim pickings on that front sadly, but you picked slim here.
You wanna talk police brutality? Brother, there ain't slim pickings on that front sadly, but you picked slim here.
Honestly, I'd say the list of people deserving the harshest punishment to the least harsh punishment (relatively speaking) goes:
1) The person(s) who authorized a SWAT team based on a single unverified call (and perhaps most importantly didn't even say "hey this was just some rando who could be pranking us so maybe hold off on shooting until you're sure this is legit")
2) The SWAT team member who killed an innocent man
3) The little shit who made the call in the first place
Because in the end the moral of this story is less "people on the internet are shitty" and more "American law enforcement is a fucked up system infested with shitty incompetent people."
1) The person(s) who authorized a SWAT team based on a single unverified call (and perhaps most importantly didn't even say "hey this was just some rando who could be pranking us so maybe hold off on shooting until you're sure this is legit")
2) The SWAT team member who killed an innocent man
3) The little shit who made the call in the first place
Because in the end the moral of this story is less "people on the internet are shitty" and more "American law enforcement is a fucked up system infested with shitty incompetent people."
And I agree with you. I'm just saying that the way these calls are happening needs to be better examined before engaging with false info.
Compared to the number of non-swatting incidents? No, swatting is very infrequent in number compared to the number of incidents swat teams deal with.
And you guys don't seem to get that the entire reason they respond as though the threat is credible is because SWAT team responses are time sensitive, and the calls swatters make are designed to intentionally sound credible, right? Launch an investigation? If you're being held hostage by a person who has already killed someone else, do you want police treating the phone call alerting them to your plight with initial skepticism?
A few things. I never believed in Capital Punishment but I'm not gonna lie to you and tell you my views haven't changed. Everybody's life is important is a fucking joke. Convince me that either of these dudes who threatened to SWAT each other over a dollar have something to give to society. Simply put, these two clowns thought they were being hilarious when joking about it, up until someone died over it. This shit isn't manslaughter anymore. We all knew this was going to happen eventually. It's been preached for years that it's not funny and someone's going to die over it. Well, someone died. Someone thought it was funny to call in America's Home Based Elite Death Squad and a man was executed over it. That's murder.
Person who's responsible deserves nothing less than Death Row
Person who joked about it deserves jail time
SWAT member who shot the man needs a shrink and a new career not involving a gun.
I can't believe we're deflecting this onto SWAT when the problem starts with the idiot who made the fucking call thinking it was FUN.
Person who's responsible deserves nothing less than Death Row
Person who joked about it deserves jail time
SWAT member who shot the man needs a shrink and a new career not involving a gun.
I can't believe we're deflecting this onto SWAT when the problem starts with the idiot who made the fucking call thinking it was FUN.
you're trying to make the issue about swatiing, i'm trying to make the issue about being a trigger happy SWAT Officer
clearly, i should make an OT thread for that aspect of the discussion, because as i said, its completely different and they're both problems
EDIT:
i made a thread in EtcetEra to discuss the larger police issue at hand for those interested in segwaying away from the swatting aspects of this story: https://www.resetera.com/threads/innocent-man-opens-door-to-police-gets-shot-and-killed.13207/
Last edited:
Throw the cop and those idiot nerds in a cage and let them die or whatever there together, please.
What does it matter what I think? They are going to gauge the situation anyhow. They are trained specialists. But eventually they are going to gauge it wrong. An eventual mistake is going to happen.
They (cop/swat) obviously made a huge mistake. A huge mistake is different in nature than a malicious unnecessary "prank" with deadly consequences.
You think that we should retrain swat teams so that salty videogame players can swat each other safely?
Opening the door while black.
This might not be the case here, but I would not be surprised at all.
This might not be the case here, but I would not be surprised at all.
Ah, I see. I read it as one of the two guys online was killed. Still, someone did die due to the situation, so I guess it would count. I always figuered once someone died due to swatting that it be taken more seriously, but that was before the movement against cop killing, so I figure now nothing will happen. Sad...
Then you need to change this system, I read about a swat case where the person who called wasn't even in the US, it would have been super easy to see it's a fake "threat", but every second counts!
I'm pretty sure in most other countries there would be at least some kind of observation and investigation before going in with a swat team, it is in my country, and the teams are also trained to not shoot innocent people here and it basically never happens, so there are proper ways to do this, but making excuses like "every second counts" is not one of them.
PS: I think you're right we don't really know if this was a "swat team", what I said above still applies, there needs to be some kind of confirmation or investigation before going in like that, it's just common sense.
Uh, overwhelmingly? The vast majority of swat operations target private residences. This is because -- and I think this is actually really fucked up and a misuse of swat teams -- they are used to serve drug warrants, too.
Everyone involved in this should be sent to prison. Absolutely disgusting. No amount of money would justify it, but two fucking dollars? Really?
when did i say that? never said swat shouldn't attend those calls as fast as they can, just said that once there they need an effective way to gauge the situation, verify if the call wasn't false
I saw this mentioned on Twitter earlier and could not believe what I was reading, what a fucked up world we live in, RIP to the man who was killed.
So because one person has died after years of people doing these pranks, you want to make changes that could result in tens if not hundreds of people dying each year who actually ARE in hostage, etc. situations???
Terrible that this happened to this innocent person but these swat teams exist and operate in the way they do for a very good reason and are responsible for saving thousands of lives over the years.
Maybe I don't want them treating my plight with scepticism, but I certainly don't want their response to be to immediately shoot anyone who exists at the address to which they're called. The reason that I wouldn't want that is that it's a stupid, imbecilic response. A zero-information, zero-questions-asked instant-kill is not an acceptable response to any situation from any law enforcement agency, ever.
I don't believe that it can't be stopped. It hasn't been taken seriously. That's a faulty premise.
Anything that can be done on the professionals side is of course welcome.
I take issue with the idea that someone should be able to call an armed response team on someone and just assume that noone to ends up dead. Eventually, a mistake is going to happen. That's why it's dangerous.
Also we're assuming he didn't assess the situation. They went to that house believing someone was dead, and there was a hostage situation at hand. It's this dudes job to make sure to resolve the situation quickly, and keep his team safe. We don't know if he heard something when that door was being opened. Details are light at the moment regarding the shooting itself. Until we get more details it's better to reserve judgement. This isn't the same as a cop shooting a man of color simply because it's easier than chasing him down. This was an alleged hostage crisis with a body already on the floor.
http://amp.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192081124.html?__twitter_impression=true
Are you not allowed to open the door to police officers anymore?
The man was targeted by a SWAT prank call he was completely unrelated to between 2 guys arguing over Call of Duty, and if you want to discuss, the swatting aspect of this incident, there's a thread on gaming side for that.
To me, the bigger issue here is getting shot for opening the door. Just how do you survive an encounter with police anymore? You don't even have to do a crime to get killed and have the officer get away with it.
Are you not allowed to open the door to police officers anymore?
The man was targeted by a SWAT prank call he was completely unrelated to between 2 guys arguing over Call of Duty, and if you want to discuss, the swatting aspect of this incident, there's a thread on gaming side for that.
To me, the bigger issue here is getting shot for opening the door. Just how do you survive an encounter with police anymore? You don't even have to do a crime to get killed and have the officer get away with it.
This is what swatting was about from the beginning, it wasn't a "prank", a prank is ordering a disgusting pizza to someone's house, or is remotely funny in any way. This is a digusting game played by stupid people.
I hope the ones responsible for this are properly charged and accounted for, and I hope swatting/doxxing and internet crimes get more attention after this, it is not a joke, it was never a joke.
I hope the ones responsible for this are properly charged and accounted for, and I hope swatting/doxxing and internet crimes get more attention after this, it is not a joke, it was never a joke.
When you asked me if I think a swat team should not gauge a situation before acting, I thought that type of question was fair game.
Who said that should be the assumption? The assumption after all this shit is that anyone can get a SWAT team over to someone's house and get someone killed for no reason, that's why change is needed.
Nobody's saying they shouldn't be quick to respond to real situations, that's a strawman's argument, there was no situation here, just a prank.
Bomb threats someone mentioned are a different thing altogether, you can cancel classes and get everyone out of the school and then verify if it was real or not without any deaths, only a day of classes lost, this used to happen here when I was in school but with current laws I believe they have managed to stop it (ie you can't even have a mobile phone without your real name and what not registered to it).
Last edited:
This is incredibly messed up. I remember people saying someone was gonna be killed eventually doing this on GAF. Well, here it is sadly. I hope this is a wakeup call to these idiots. I hope the judge throws the book at the guy.
The real problem here really is the polices ability to use deadly force for absolutely NO fucking reason. Forces in other more civilized countries actually use their brains and make calculations before discharging a weapon. Deaths like these are very rare in a country like the UK. In America it's basically "if they do ANYTHING remotely weird they're dead".
They could barge in on someone who's stoned or drunk and doesn't know what the hell's going on and one wrong move and they're dead. That isn't a just use of force.
Yeah sure these fuckwit's who started this need seriously dealt with as well but the fundamental problem is how fucking awful the American police are. How badly trained and how cowardly they are to presume everyone is guilty and having no mental faculties or bravery to allow themselves a moment to assess a situation before acting
They could barge in on someone who's stoned or drunk and doesn't know what the hell's going on and one wrong move and they're dead. That isn't a just use of force.
Yeah sure these fuckwit's who started this need seriously dealt with as well but the fundamental problem is how fucking awful the American police are. How badly trained and how cowardly they are to presume everyone is guilty and having no mental faculties or bravery to allow themselves a moment to assess a situation before acting
Are you familiar with spoofing numbers, because that's what is happening in most of these cases. You can spoof a number to make it look like somebody in that specific town is calling you and dispatch wouldn't know. They would know afterwards, when they launch an investigation and realize it was a fake call.
That's what I literally said in the 3rd paragraph of my post. Nowhere did I make an excuse on the actual procedure in this specific case, but I questioned the procedure.
It's real easy to sit behind your computer screen and judge.
What happened is tragic, but when you've got a situation where a guy just shot his father, and has his mother and sister at gunpoint, there's no time for verifying claims.
If someone calls in a bomb threat at a school, should the claim be verified before taking action?
The SWAT angle changes the whole rules of engagement IMO. Yes its still very bad the guy got shot but they are going to be incredibly on edge if they think the guy has hostages and has already shot one.
What do you mean no reason? They went in believing they were dealing with a hostage situation that already resulted in a dead body.