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TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,161
It really really depends on what's in the rest of this set.

Also I'd never want to draft it on the off chance you open massive value considering there are 4 spots in a pack where money cards can be instead of the normal 2. It would feel awful to pass one or even two 20 buck cards.
They said in the stream that you draft 2 cards for your first pick - so if you're money drafting, it's exactly the same ratio as before.

Obviously it depends on the rest of the set, but I'm just saying strictly from a value prospect, this isn't any worse than any previous masters set ASIDE from the commons/uncommons.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,117
They said in the stream that you draft 2 cards for your first pick - so if you're money drafting, it's exactly the same ratio as before.

Obviously it depends on the rest of the set, but I'm just saying strictly from a value prospect, this isn't any worse than any previous masters set ASIDE from the commons/uncommons.

That's interesting, I noticed the announcement said "Double the first picks" but I wasn't sure if that meant you first pick two cards, or that the set contains double the number of powerful cards that you would want to first pick.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,161
That's interesting, I noticed the announcement said "Double the first picks" but I wasn't sure if that meant you first pick two cards, or that the set contains double the number of powerful cards that you would want to first pick.
Yeah they specifically mentioned rare/foil drafting as being considered and that's why they did that.
 

Deleted member 13560

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,087
It's awesome to see some classic artist being more active in the art for the game again. Ron Spencer, Kev Walker, Scott M. Fischer. The art for the game was starting to look pretty samey. But these newer sets are doing a pretty good job of fixing that issue.
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,697
Is it just me, or is the whole Austin Bursavich situation really fucked?
Organised play is just fuck up after fuck up. Understandable they have to change the schedule for the year, but they've tried to sneak in a massive prize reduction while pushing a client that isn't ready for it. If they're going to ignore MTGO they should have put the proper investment in Arena over the last year. And now they are making a mess of the communications. I don't think MPL is going to survive the year.

I'm not sure how they do coverage of an Arena PT? You can't mandate a private stream from every player.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
Organised play is just fuck up after fuck up. Understandable they have to change the schedule for the year, but they've tried to sneak in a massive prize reduction while pushing a client that isn't ready for it. If they're going to ignore MTGO they should have put the proper investment in Arena over the last year. And now they are making a mess of the communications. I don't think MPL is going to survive the year.

I'm not sure how they do coverage of an Arena PT? You can't mandate a private stream from every player.

I'm sure they could stream it themselves. That seems simple enough.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,618
currently there is no observer function in arena, all the coverage so far was from pulling the video feeds directly. In the case of online tournaments that means everyone has to stream and in the case of mythic invitationals they just pulled the feed directly from the devices they were played on.

their MPL league was played with prerecorded matches as well.



And yeah the banning of Austin Bursavich because he leaked the Organized Play information they gave to MPL and Rivals is absolutely crazy, despite him being a tool, that at the very least is regularly caught angle shooting.
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,697
I've never understood why they haven't built spectator functionality. Building a proper UI would look so much better than the current jank of syncing other people's streams on top of each other. Is it just because Hearthstone never did?
 
Secret Lair - The Path Not Traveled; Secret Lair - Birds
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,535
Some Secret Lairs coming up



EY3_LELWAAMC_Mr


Secret Lair – The Path Not Traveled
Release Date: June 3 (24 hours only)
Planeswalker AU Secret Lair
Contents:
1x foil alt-art Ajani Steadfast
1x foil alt-art Domri Rade
1x foil alt-art Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1x foil alt-art Vraska, Golgari Queen
1x single-use code for a The Path Not Traveled MTG Arena sleeve
1x single-use code to redeem one (1) of each card in Magic Online



Secret Lair with realistic bird art
EY31ndBXgAALRT5

EY31oEMXsAEYXoR

EY31om4X0AE6d3L

EY31pOiWsAAX1a-

EY31pyLXkAUmMkd


No more information yet
 
Secret Lair - Full Sleeves
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,535
Another one, with a tattoo theme

bleedingcool.com

Magic: The Gathering Announces Full Sleeves Secret Lair Drop

From their secret lair in Seattle, Wizards of the Coast entrusted us with a secret that we wouldn't be allowed to tell you about - until now!

PK9rPikkeC9.jpg

wvwqjbEcbSi.jpg

rtThWG7VmCi.jpg

npEAM0AEiH3.jpg

q3fuxcg7nHY.jpg

Arena-Sleeve-Tattoo.jpg


We sat some classic cards down in the chair, and they emerged with some rad new ink. Before you decide to purchase, your mother would like us to remind you that getting these cards is a permanent decision and that you need to consider that they will look awesome in your decks or collection forever. Tattoo master Josh Howard lent his needle to create these incredible traditional flash sheet designs—a brand-new look for Magic. The set goes on sale June 1, 2020 for $29.99
 

Metroidvania

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,802
...I can see why those are (presumably) tied into the chance to get the fetchlands during the 'super sale part 2' for secret lair.

Not really appealing (to me), at all, otherwise, save maybe inkmoth nexus and Pithing needle - but not 30 dollars appealing.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,338
I don't understand that Planeswalker one at all, but the bird one is cools and the Tattoo one is the first one of these that I would consider buying, as it's an awesome idea and it came out looking stunning
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,161
The planeswalker one is a bit weird, I really like the other two. The 90s X-men Ajani I chuckled at though. And let's be honest we know I'm buying em T_T

The biggest problem is the PW one comes with some pretty trash selection. Like. They're all ALMOST bargain bin planeswalkers all things considered (at least about as bargain as pre-wots planeswalkers were).
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,535
magic.wizards.com

The Grand Experiment | MAGIC: THE GATHERING

Mark covers the most commonly discussed topic of Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths—the set's complexity.

While developing Ikoria, they came across the idea of making it an experiment. New World Order was an attempt to get complexity down, and they found the lower limit of what players would accept. How about finding out what the upper limit is?

MaRo has often talked about lenticular design, where a complex play pattern is hidden behind a simple design (classic example being Black Cat), but now he talks about evocative design. You put the complexity up front, but the card or mechanic is so flavorful and cool that players want to figure it out. Mutate is exploring this area.

Keyword counters and companion also pushed complexity, but they were all pushing it in different areas, and didn't significantly make the other mechanics in the set more complex, so they felt comfortable including all three.
 
Feb 16, 2018
2,686
another monday without bans

the strategy of trying to hype & sell all this crap when every 1v1 format is a dump is quite amusing

i won't speak for everyone, but my interest in buying more cards is lowest when the game itself sucks
but i'm not a marketing genius, so maybe they know something i don't
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,535
magic.wizards.com

Announcing Secret Lair: Summer Superdrop | MAGIC: THE GATHERING

The time has come to unveil the Secret Lair: Summer Superdrop! See all that's in store right here.

Article for all the Secret Lairs announced today. There's also a Summer Superdrop Bundle.
On sale: June 1, 9 a.m. PT – June 15, 9 a.m. PT
Contents:
One of each Secret Lair drop included in the Summer Superdrop.
  • Full Sleeves: The Tattoo Pack
  • Can You Feel with a Heart of Steel?
  • The Path Not Traveled
  • Mountain, Go
  • Ornithological Studies
  • PLUS! One (1) enemy fetch land
Price: $169.95/€194.95*/£169.95*
*inclusive of local VAT
 

Metroidvania

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,802
You only get 1 fetch land for buying all 5 secret lairs?

.....I get why they can't give them all, but eesh that's.....actually not that bad of a bonus', even if the value is kinda silly only because Wizards didn't let the fetches be a 'normal' secret lair.

Not to mention the stained glass walkers (if they're still going to go in there), now that I think about it.

Out of all of those I really only unequivocally like the bolt and artifact creature in terms of whole sets - the other ones all have smatterings of interest, but not 30 dollars for 5-cards levels of interest.

Also, wasn't the 5 pack of Theros gods 'only' 150, not 170?
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,161
The fetch makes it clearly worth it financially, I just hope they haven't stopped the walkers already. I would see the artifact one for karn and maybe ugin, for example. Definitely not my favorite 'set' though overall. The tattoo ones are COOL but not my style (american traditional is the tattoo style I'm least into), and the alt job walkers are hit or miss, cowboy domri feels so uninspired next to FUCKING CABLE Ajani.

I would happily buy several sets of "The Gatewatch as superheroes" but yeah, domri and Vraska just pale next to the other two.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,117
Man, I don't play physical Magic at all at the moment but I wouldn't mind having those Pithing Needle tattoo style sleeves in Arena, hopefully people won't ask much for a code.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,117
The arena sleeves have been dirt cheap on ebay when new sets hit.

Cool! I usually don't care at all about cosmetics in any game, I've been playing Arena since M19 and still just use the standard cardbacks (I think I have some black ones they gave out for free at some point but I've never bothered using them). I really like that style though, and I might check out the others if they're cheap.
 

11037

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
596
Australia
Five secret lair announcements at once is ridiculous but I really do like that Ajani art so I might pick the PW one up. We'll see.

Also apparently all of the ikoria/C20 stock for Western Australia got lost in shipment so we still don't have that set here. At least my LGS gave me a 20% off coupon, so I might pick up a Double Masters box (though if I were smart I would just buy the singles I want...)
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,772
Five secret lair announcements at once is ridiculous but I really do like that Ajani art so I might pick the PW one up. We'll see.

Also apparently all of the ikoria/C20 stock for Western Australia got lost in shipment so we still don't have that set here. At least my LGS gave me a 20% off coupon, so I might pick up a Double Masters box (though if I were smart I would just buy the singles I want...)

The time I spent in Perth was the last time I had a regular F2F playgroup for Magic (original Theros block). I gotta say - I miss it a lot.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,117
I think I'm about done with Ikoria draft. I played three Premier Drafts over the weekend and ended up in the cycling deck every time, and I might be exaggerating a little, but I swear it felt like two out every three matches at least had a cycling sub-theme.

It really sucks, I'm sick of playing the deck (and against it), but if I'm passed a third pick Zenith Flare it just feels stupid not to take it. If I open a Savai Thundermane there has to be a pretty incredible rare in the pack for me not to pick it.

It really doesn't feel like human drafting on Arena is "self-correcting" this is the way I was promised by the internet it would. I still regularly see 1-generic cycling cards in the final few picks of a pack. As stated above, I was passed a third pick Zenith Flare. I was matched with a handful of decks that had multiples of Drannith Stinger (I know that's a common, but still, should be a pretty high pick).

The format has the potential to be really fun, but man, the cycling deck is really souring me on it. It's funny seeing all the focus on the Companion mechanic when cycling feels like it breaks draft nearly as much as Companion is Constructed.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
I think I'm about done with Ikoria draft. I played three Premier Drafts over the weekend and ended up in the cycling deck every time, and I might be exaggerating a little, but I swear it felt like two out every three matches at least had a cycling sub-theme.

It really sucks, I'm sick of playing the deck (and against it), but if I'm passed a third pick Zenith Flare it just feels stupid not to take it. If I open a Savai Thundermane there has to be a pretty incredible rare in the pack for me not to pick it.

It really doesn't feel like human drafting on Arena is "self-correcting" this is the way I was promised by the internet it would. I still regularly see 1-generic cycling cards in the final few picks of a pack. As stated above, I was passed a third pick Zenith Flare. I was matched with a handful of decks that had multiples of Drannith Stinger (I know that's a common, but still, should be a pretty high pick).

The format has the potential to be really fun, but man, the cycling deck is really souring me on it. It's funny seeing all the focus on the Companion mechanic when cycling feels like it breaks draft nearly as much as Companion is Constructed.

If you're seeing an irregular number of cycling decks, it's because they're very good and people are likely to force them and when they do, they do well so they stick around longer in the matchmaking pool.

Human drafting on Arena is self-correcting. It is no longer possible to force obscure archetypes every time. Human drafting prevents something like mill in Eldraine from being a dominant force. That deck was rampant across Arena and nigh unplayable at normal tables with human drafters. What human drafting doesn't do is guarantee an even spread of decks. Some archetypes will be easier to make than others and those that are more available by design will of course in fact be more available.

The cycling decks are very good. I think it's a problem of design -- cycling is a unique deck that doesn't really want any of the cards the other decks want. Humans is the same. Other than that, all of the other archetypes are very similar and can share a ton of moving parts and even colors. With that in mind, it's not surprising that you see cycling cards all the time and they stick out. It's not that the other archetypes aren't there and equally available, it's just harder to tell because there's a lot of pollution from other archetypes which makes it difficult to read what's open and what's not.

The solution to not playing the cycling deck is simply to not play it. I guarantee you at least 2 people at almost every table will play it, even when you get a last pick 1 mana cycler. You passing it will tempt someone else and you can focus on what you want. Of course, that's not necessarily the optimal draft strategy, but forcing cycling because you got a single Zenith Flare pick 3 or, worse, a Savai Thundermane pick 1 (which is a multicolor card that isn't a bomb and thus probably should never be pick 1 unless there's just literally nothing else) is also not going to see you to a ton of success.

All that said, I am also done with Ikoria. It was fun at first but as the meta's evolved I enjoy it less. I haven't played in a week and I was doing multiple drafts a day. I'm definitely looking forward to Core 21 at this point and, luckily, it'll be here relatively soon.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,117
The solution to not playing the cycling deck is simply to not play it. I guarantee you at least 2 people at almost every table will play it, even when you get a last pick 1 mana cycler. You passing it will tempt someone else and you can focus on what you want. Of course, that's not necessarily the optimal draft strategy, but forcing cycling because you got a single Zenith Flare pick 3 or, worse, a Savai Thundermane pick 1 (which is a multicolor card that isn't a bomb and thus probably should never be pick 1 unless there's just literally nothing else) is also not going to see you to a ton of success.

That's the thing though, so far it does seem optimal to take the cycling payoffs in almost any situation. Thundermane is easily the worst cycling payoff, but if you have a decent amount of cyclers it still puts in work, and it's not difficult at all to have a decent amount of cyclers. Zenith Flare feels borderline broken, I've had no issues with casting it at X = 8+ every time I've drafted it, and each time you cycle you both power up your Flare and get closer to drawing it. I wish there were cheap phantom drafts but I do realize I'm somewhat ruining the game for myself, but when there's gems on the line it just feels bad to pass up cards that belong to the clearly dominant archetype.

I just went 2-3 with a Keruga deck, that was the most fun I've had in awhile despite the horrible record. I think I'm going to end on that "high note" and do what you're doing, just save my gems and coins for M21 (and Cube!).
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,535


On Monday 6/1 there will be an update to the Banned & Restricted list impacting the Standard and Historic formats that will also address the Companion mechanic.

It's happening.

There are rumors / leaks on Reddit that they'll be changing the rules for the companion mechanic, rather than banning all of them.
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,697
What ideas do people have for them changing the rule? I don't really see how it's possible, I think it's more likely they ban the use of the mechanic (rather than a traditional ban stopping the cards being in decks t all).
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,117
I'm guessing they'll rewrite the game rules in such a way that starting with a companion makes you take a forced mulligan.

Yeah, that seems most likely. We'll have to see the specifics, I've been seeing people say forced mulligan as the best way to fix it. So you'll still draw seven cards, and choose one to put back. They could also just make you start with a six-card hand, but that seems less likely.

What ideas do people have for them changing the rule? I don't really see how it's possible, I think it's more likely they ban the use of the mechanic (rather than a traditional ban stopping the cards being in decks t all).

Maybe, but I really doubt it, they want people to want the cards and most aren't anywhere near as appealing if you don't start with them in your hand.
 
Feb 16, 2018
2,686
What ideas do people have for them changing the rule? I don't really see how it's possible, I think it's more likely they ban the use of the mechanic (rather than a traditional ban stopping the cards being in decks t all).

there are lots of ways to nerf the mechanic

however, i don't see how they can change the rule without making lurrus + yorion even better than the rest than they already are

if they change the rule and ban yorion in standard and ban lurrus+yorion in older formats, then maybe it's enough.
but the announcement doesn't touch older formats, so i'm not really envisioning how this works out well
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,338
Why not just put something that you can only have a companion if you have a commander in your command zone?
 
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