Localization: At what point can we call out White Washing? (Anime, Games, etc.)

[RM8]

I mean English speakers can't pronounce Ryu. From a marketing perspective, you'd want your characters being pronounce-able.

 

[DryCreek]

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[teruterubozu]

The line between reducing national identities to 1-2 syllables and using said syllables as a slur is a brittle and contextual one. The issues around "Jap" are deeply rooted in US/Japanese relations. It goes without saying that racism against Japan and internment happened in Australia and New Zealand, too. But let's be realistic. America has 1.3 million Japanese people. Australia has 30,000. Australia and other countries didn't occupy Japan. DIdn't nuke Japan. Didn't humiliate the country and its citizens in such a direct way.

"Jap" is a very rare and unusual case. The whole Nipponese/Japanese thing has always been strange because we referred to the people of Nippon using a Chinese distortion of their name. The terms "Nip" and "Jap" arose naturally as shortened forms, without any malicious intent. (Any word that ends in "t" or "p" or similar sounds feels natural to say.) The stigmatization of "Jap" is rooted in American hate campaigns during WWII which were of great ferocity and bile followed by American bombing and occupying Japan. There's a reason the term quickly became taboo in American in particular. A perfectly normal word shortening -- the most logical and natural way of shortening the word that is going to recur over and over, especially in dialects of English that shorten words for the sake of it -- became taboo in America, and American influence spread this taboo.

Countries like Australia, the UK, and others had Japanese populations measured in the low thousands. For the average person, "Jap" ended up being applied to Japanese PRODUCTS, not Japanese individuals. Jap Cars, Jap Bikes, Jap Pumpkins. These terms are widely used today in Australia and NZ and find usage in various commonwealth countries. The extent to which they are used depends on how American-influenced your language is, basically.

The rise of the internet has made this kinda delicate. There are a lot of words and expressions that are completely benign in one language, one dialect, one culture, that are varying degrees of offensive in another. The internet is very US dominated. As a result, things that are offensive in the American context tend to be viewed as offensive on the internet at large.

In the interests of peace and civility online it is generally wise to try and use neutral terminology. If someone, somewhere is going to be offended by what you say, do think about saying it differently. For example, in British English, calling someone a fruitcake is normal. In American English it sometimes seen as offensive. But when I go to the store to buy a pumpkin for pumpkin soup, I am buying a Jap Pumpkin. That is its name. And there is zero racism attached to the name. When I need replacement parts for an old Japanese car, I go to JustJap, or JapParts. Those stores are so named because they sell parts for "Jap" cars.

Some people will try to equate this to "Abbo Auto" or something equally offensive. But calling a car from Japan a Jap car wasn't born of racism or derogatory sentiment. Importantly, it never gained such associations. Calling these (highly desirable) cars "Japanese Cars" was a mouthful. "Jap" was used because it's the first three letters of Japan.

The reason "Abbo" -- which was once a completely innocent expression -- is seen as a slur in the Australian context is because racism against indigenous Australians is alive and well today. It's an ongoing issue. We stole their land and ruined their future, and the least we can do for the time being is refer to them as "Aborigines", "Indigenous Australians", and "Koori", depending on formality. The context of words does matter. Where they are said. When they are said. At some point in the future when the native peoples of Australia are no longer an oppressed minority, perhaps "Abbo" will reenter polite society. For now it is taboo and people essentially demonstrate their consideration for the rightful owners of the country by declining to use it.

America's relationship with Japan is very unique because America mass-interned, bombed, and occupied them. There's a very specific context there that has tainted all informal words to describe the people of Japan. It's not just "Jap". There are zero polite nicknames for the inhabitants of countries the Americans stormed around in with their tanks. We have no polite nicknames for the Vietnamese. For the Koreans. For the various Arab countries. Everything is tainted by racism mixed with war. Using "Japan" as a full word is a form of respect for a country and a people that America did some very, very bad things to. Is this guilt projected onto the world at large? Yes. But the internet is a bad place for such nuances, and playing it safe is often best.

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edit: nvm. Not sure why I'm engaging in a conversation on why someone SHOULDN'T be offended by "Jap" in a thread about whitewashing. Got better things to do...

P.S>. And in Japan it's called "kabocha" not "Jap Pumpkin". Jeez louise.

 

[ThreepQuest64]

I always kind of irritated me when playing Final Fantasy and I see names like Hope, Snow, Lighting, etc. All this fancy and stereotypical anime and Japanese style but no Japanese name? I don't know if this is 'white washing'. Anyways, I'd actually prefer real Japanese names for my characters, even if the universe isn't authentical.

 

[Dyle]

I always kind of irritated me when playing Final Fantasy and I see names like Hope, Snow, Lighting, etc. All this fancy and stereotypical anime and Japanese style but no Japanese name? I don't know if this is 'white washing'. Anyways, I'd actually prefer real Japanese names for my characters, even if the universe isn't authentical.

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It's not whitewashing. Lightning is called Lightning in Japanese, as are Hope, Snow, Cloud, etc. Their real Japanese names are English words. There were some small changes, like Eclair to Claire, but nothing fundamentally different

 

[Zoc]

He'd get laughed at for being named after the lead character in Pokémon instead.

This is a really daft take.

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Not as daft as your bizarre reply. Do you think the name Satoshi was invented by Pokemon?

 

[Deleted member 19066]

It's not whitewashing. Lightning is called Lightning in Japanese, as are Hope, Snow, Cloud, etc. Their real Japanese names are English words. There were some small changes, like Eclair to Claire, but nothing fundamentally different

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If anything they should have changed the names further. Lightning and snow sound silly to English speaking ears, even withing the context of the fantasy world.

edit: nvm. Not sure why I'm engaging in a conversation on why someone SHOULDN'T be offended by "Jap" in a thread about whitewashing. Got better things to do...

P.S>. And in Japan it's called "kabocha" not "Jap Pumpkin". Jeez louise.

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Thank you. We've spent a good chunk of this topic derailed on a subject that should have its own topic if it needs to be discussed.

 

[JCHandsom]

The point of localization is to give the audience in another region the same experience as the audience in the media's home region. If the localization does not do enough to make the media seem relatable to a foreign audience, that can be considered a failure of localization. Something like Persona, for example, is uniquely Japanese in it's setting and themes, so the point would to make that setting and themes feel familiar to foreigners. That's a super tough and complicated balancing act in its own right.

But other times, particularly in fantasy or science fiction, you get a different set of challenges. The way westerners relate to Japanese culture and their own culture is not the same as how Japanese people relate to western culture and their own culture. What is considered unique and exotic to a Japanese audience may be mundane or silly to a western one. What's more, sometimes fantasy settings are supposed to feel homey and familiar to the target audience, like Pokemon. If the culture and customs presented in a Pokemon game feel foreign and different to an American child than to a Japanese one, that could be construed as a failure of localisation. Going to far in the other direction, like when Brock calls onigiri "donuts" when it's super obvious they are not donuts, is also a failure of localization. Phoenix Wright would have literally more coherent if they claimed it took place in "San Fransokyo" or something silly like that.

Some things you cannot take out without doing a disservice to the author(s.) Where one draws the line varies from localisation to localisation, even within a single work. There is no single standard that can be applied to everything. Even the Catholic church uses different translations of the bible for different purposes! For sermons, they may choose a translation that prioritizes prose over literal-ness. What we're talking about is mass media, so generally the priority is audience experience (unless your boss is Hideo Kojima.)

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This breaks it down pretty nicely. Just like a film adaptation of a book will by necessity change certain elements to fit the nature of the medium, so too will cultural adaptations make changes to fit the nature of the "new" culture.

 

[davepoobond]

They localize movie posters all of the time

No one remembers when they changed Force Awakens to make someone in particular much smaller?

 

[Deleted member 8561]

They localize movie posters all of the time

No one remembers when they changed Force Awakens to make someone in particular much smaller?

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[Deleted member 19066]

They localize movie posters all of the time

No one remembers when they changed Force Awakens to make someone in particular much smaller?

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Posts like this, while funny (since it's blatant whitewashing,) are kind of dishonest because they conflate the practice of whitewashing as a form of localisation with the practice of localisation as a whole.

That'd probably be the best answer to the OP. Localisation is not inherently whitewashing. While improper localisation can use whitewashing as a tool, it is not standard practice and is rare in its application. It's also wrong and unethical, but that goes without saying around here.

 

[ForKevdo]

Granted it's only titles and not, say, character names, but Japan definitely changes and localizes things a lot. Seems to me that they really prefer titles that are more literally explaining what the movie is about rather than being some sort of relevant metaphor. "Up" changed to "Grandpa Carl's Flying House", 'Ratatouille" changed to "Remy's Delicious Restaurant", "Brave" changed to "Merida and the Terrible Forest", etc

 

[TickleMeElbow]

Sponge Bob is still Sponge Bob in Japan, although they changed Squidward to Ekardo (Eka or "squid" + Ricardo). Mr. Crabs is also Kaaani San, but Kani is just crab in Japanese.

Changing actual names always kinda bothered me though. If it's a real name from that culture I feel like it should stay (unless it's sounds ridiculous like Cuntass or some shit).