PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
123,655
I thought it was more "I have to revert things to before I ever started using them, because nothing has ever worked, total reset to baseline" rather than "I gotta use them one last time to fix everything."

This was my read as well. I always got the impression that Max fucking with time and playing around with the natural order of things is what CAUSES the storm, and so the only way to prevent it was to basically undo all of her alterations entirely by resetting things back to the beginning and refusing to use her powers again.
 

KharijTheDog

Member
Sep 23, 2022
247
This back and forth between Bay/Bae endings is all too reminiscient of TLOU1 cure discourse, and it legitimately exhausts me physically.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
74,093
My big thing is I just don't buy the logic that time travel causes tornadoes

Probably some other mutant who wanted Chloe dead in shadows using wind powers
 

BaconHat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,565
My big thing is I just don't buy the logic that time travel causes tornadoes

Probably some other mutant who wanted Chloe dead in shadows.
There's no real logic for time travel other than the usual living second by second if we're being honest. Devs could just have well said that time travel cause the color purple to become a sound, and it would make as much scientific sense.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,376
It's also just like, the way Bay invalidates the whole time-travel aspect frustrates the hell out of me. It's about Max coming to terms with loss, but it's also saying that her power was never something that could be used responsibly to begin with. It is inherently destructive and the only responsible thing to do is to relinquish the illusion of control and let your friend die.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
35,336
My big thing is I just don't buy the logic that time travel causes tornadoes

Probably some other mutant who wanted Chloe dead in shadows using wind powers
It's probably a play on the whole "a butterfly in China flaps it's wings and you get a tornado in the midwest" thing you always hear about in time travel movies when they don't want to bother being creative about it.

This back and forth between Bay/Bae endings is all too reminiscient of TLOU1 cure discourse, and it legitimately exhausts me physically.
If nothing else it shows what an amazing job the developer did in giving players a choice that actually mattered. These sorts of games, where you need to make choices, usually don't have a single option that fundamentally changes how the game plays out. The choices never actually matter. LiS had one that did and it was such a controversial one that people are still arguing about it to this day. From that perspective, I imagine the writers and designers feel like it's a job well done.

That said, yeah, the discussion definitely can get aggro lol
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
74,093
There's no real logic for time travel other than the usual living second by second if we're being honest. Devs could just have well said that time travel cause the color purple to become a sound, and it would make as much scientific sense.

Time travel could cause synesthesia since I'd buy it altering the brain

But tornadoes are silly
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,942
I liked the comics a lot!

Thanks, I really need to finally read them. I think I was just worried that it would be a quick cash in on the game's popularity and wouldn't actually be that good.

Unless you know, you're someone that isn't into letting an entire town of people die over one person, especially when said person wants to save her mom and everyone else so you're also going against her wishes.

Bae choice is like a much less graphic version of the end of The Last of Us. You understand perfectly the events that make Joel do what he does and might do the same in his shoes, but it doesn't make him any less of a selfish person for doing it.

The bae ending is just such a mess. It feels like a rushed "bad end", and offered no real look at how either were processing the choice. It's so threadbare that it didn't leave the kind of unsettling impression that Joel's choice in The Last of Us did.

I just hate that a game that repeatedly emphasized choices and outcomes didn't at least make two fleshed endings. I just have a hard time looking at the bay ending as anything other than letting a queer kid who has clearly struggled with suicidal ideation kill herself. On top of that she has just found out the girl she loved was murdered. The game wants to make it seem like a noble sacrifice, but it just winds up feeling weirdly mean spirited, especially after how many other times you can let/see her die. The fact that the bay ending is the only one that lets Max and Chloe kiss also bugs me.

For me the ending of the game really brought the whole game down. The whole storm despite being the major looming threat of the whole game just winds up getting forgotten about for too much of the game for it to feel like it justifies the moral dilemma. The fact that I think it was Warren who convinces Max that she has to let Chloe die also felt weird. I am obviously biased, but I just remember being kind of shocked that the final moral choice essentially comes from Warren whose only authority in this situation is that he has good grades and has consumed a bunch of sci fi. It should have come from the other Max you talk to while she is in her fugue state. I still wouldn't have liked it but it would have at least felt more earned if that makes any sense.

I'm really sorry for the rant. It's been years and this ending still provokes a reaction from me. It probably is a testament to how much these characters impacted me.

The LiS2 slander has gone too far. Leave my sweet baby boys alone.

Preach, LiS 2 was a hell of a game. It took some big swings and it is a shame that it feels like it is viewed as the most disposable entry in the series.
 

BaconHat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,565
Time travel could cause synesthesia since I'd buy it altering the brain

But tornadoes are silly
That would still be something that is rooted in our logical sense of the world, while I meant more in a "the structure itself it not the same since fiction science does not need a physical scientific base, thus scientific analysis on our perspective is not worth much".
Could just as well imagine that time travel causes 100% of the time all copies of games near the time traveler to become bayonetta 3.
Edit: sorry if I went pedantic on this, I just had trouble putting the thought into words I felt.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
74,093
That would still be something that is rooted in our logical sense of the world, while I meant more in a "the structure itself it not the same since fiction science does not need a physical scientific base, thus scientific analysis on our perspective is not worth much".
Could just as well imagine that time travel causes 100% of the time all copies of games near the time traveler to become bayonetta 3.
Edit: sorry if I went pedantic on this, I just had trouble putting the thought into words I felt.

I'm also being silly lol

It's just such a ham fisted thing that I reject it inherently
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,504
Canada
If nothing else it shows what an amazing job the developer did in giving players a choice that actually mattered.

VYHPa0Z.gif
 
Sep 14, 2018
5,122
I'll never understand the hate for LIS2. It was a good story and the endings make me cry
I think it's cause of the change of setting. At least for me, the Twin Peaks-y mysterious vibe is lost and that's a big part of why I liked the first game.

Also Daniel drove me insane when they're at the pot farm and he fucks everything up for poor Sean trying to make this work.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
123,655
I think it's cause of the change of setting. At least for me, the Twin Peaks-y mysterious vibe is lost and that's a big part of why I liked the first game.

Also Daniel drove me insane when they're at the pot farm and he fucks everything up for poor Sean trying to make this work.

Setting is super important for sure. The setting is why I loved True Colors so much - I started the game and just instantly wanted to live in a cozy little mountain town like that.

just with less evil corporate fuckers trying to cover up mining accidents, obviously
 

LordHuffnPuff

Doctor Videogames at Allfather Productions
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,672
webernet
That's how it's presented, but if you see what's happening to the timeline as a consequence of Max fucking with it over and over... Going back again isn't gonna fix it. Time travel was never an out from dealing with the consequences of your actions or inaction. Going back at all has consequences.
I don't think that's what happened at all honestly. Messing with things caused the storm. By resetting to before anything at all changed it averts the storm. This is Donnie Darko. Like actually it's the exact same setup, sci-fi concept, and consequence/twist.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,611
I haven't played another game by this developer because I was so disappointed in the ending of the first game.

If this fixes that and you can save the town and Chloe then I'm back and will play the games I missed.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
35,336
I haven't played another game by this developer because I was so disappointed in the ending of the first game.

If this fixes that and you can save the town and Chloe then I'm back and will play the games I missed.
That would defeat the entire purpose of the game. The whole point is that there is no good ending and you have to make choices that actually matter.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,236
This was my read as well. I always got the impression that Max fucking with time and playing around with the natural order of things is what CAUSES the storm, and so the only way to prevent it was to basically undo all of her alterations entirely by resetting things back to the beginning and refusing to use her powers again.

Exactly. The entire story was about Max learning to accept loss.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,376
I don't think that's what happened at all honestly. Messing with things caused the storm. By resetting to before anything at all changed it averts the storm. This is Donnie Darko. Like actually it's the exact same setup, sci-fi concept, and consequence/twist.

I just don't think it vibes with the story they're trying to tell with all the time travel stuff. Everything has consequences, but actually the only thing that mattered was the choice Max made at the very start of the game, which correlates to the start of her coming of age story. Max makes a choice, but in the end the responsible thing to do was to have never chosen at all.

Is Life is Strange about the responsibility that comes with maturity? How do the endings frame that responsibility? One ending has Max accept her power and the irreparable damage it has caused while saving the person she cares about the most. The other is about her getting the time to say goodbye and leaving Chloe in the past. These are not irreconcilable concepts, but the story frames them as such. Personally I find the narrative about the responsibility of accepting the unforseen consequences of your actions more engaging and I hate that the fandom and the game itself frame it as a selfish choice.

Edit: It's also just like, correlating the queer themes with the endings makes me uncomfortable. Letting Chloe go and moving on is good for your community. Not accepting power and letting fate take the reigns is the responsible choice. Bleh.
 
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Lord Fanny

Member
Apr 25, 2020
28,360
I thought it was pretty corny to relate the butterfly effect idiom so literally to a hurricane lol

Insanely corny and on the nose, but some people still didn't quite get it lol. But I also don't think that part of the story was particularly well done to be fair so I kind of understand
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,611
That would defeat the entire purpose of the game. The whole point is that there is no good ending and you have to make choices that actually matter.

Exactly. The entire story was about Max learning to accept loss.
Is it though? I haven't played it since it came out so I may be misremembering but she already lost Chloe as a friend years ago. I don't remember her saying anything that led me to believe she couldn't accept loss.

The entire story may have well been about how you can't change fate so don't try. Or trying to save someone else only causes you to get hurt so don't try.
 

RedHeat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,051
Probably a hot take but I think I would've preferred another game with Alex tbh, despite how that story ended. Or maybe an entirely different character.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,236
I thought it was pretty corny to relate the butterfly effect idiom so literally to a hurricane lol

Lot of the game was corny but the thing that always kept me invested was Max and Chloe's relationship. If the character writing is believable. That does an insane amount of heavy lifting for me.
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,448
Pretty excited for this as I never ended up playing any of the other LiS games including Before the Storm, the time travel gameplay was one of my favorite bits.

Does seem a bit weird that they're retreading the 'how do I save my friend' bit though, at least from what we've seen.
 

Saturday

One Winged Slayer - Shinra Employee
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,167
Now I am feeling the need to finally read the comics. Does anyone know if they are any good?

If you went Bae over Bay, imo it's a fantastic little piece but with the heavy caveat that while it does address the thoughts and aftermath behind the bae/bay choice it's not the focus; It's best strength is firmly establishing a post LiS adventure with simple but effective ties to the game for Max and Chloe to make the relationship feel infinitely more complete.

(It also does a lot for Rachel, and one of the things that's pretty great is it gives Rachel/Max a actual tangible friendship.)
 

MissingString

Member
Oct 28, 2017
296
Cool seeing Max and all but i dunno seems strange.


I've been craving a good story game so I think i should maybe checkout LiS2 now.
LiS2 is great. True Colors is solid but the story doesn't really stick the landing at the end (I love Alex as a character though and legitimately miss her since I've finished the game. She was written like someone I wish I knew in real life)

Also! Don't sleep on Tell Me Why. It's excellent.
 

Jokerman

Member
May 16, 2020
7,308
I'll never understand the hate for LIS2. It was a good story and the endings make me cry
I think a lot of the responses here answer that. The Life is Strange fan base is certainly unique and devoted, for lack of better words. All of the games since the first have been excellent. I've enjoyed all of them.
 

Genetrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,815
Cool seeing Max and all but i dunno seems strange.


I've been craving a good story game so I think i should maybe checkout LiS2 now.

I think a lot of the responses here answer that. The Life is Strange fan base is certainly unique and devoted, for lack of better words. All of the games since the first have been excellent. I've enjoyed all of them.
I remember being bored during some of the middle episode of LIS2 but once I reached the ending, every single one of them blew me away. As a result it became hands down my favorite LiS
 

Angie

Best Avatar Thread Ever!
Member
Nov 20, 2017
43,897
Kingdom of Corona
I thought True Colors wasn't that good.
The choices weren't that significant and the story wasn't that memorable.

I thought Before the Storm was amazing.


So not sure how I feel about Deck Nine.
 

SuperOctopus

Member
Apr 22, 2020
3,020
Excited for this as I've enjoyed previous LiS games by Deck Nine but man, this stupid trend of ultimate editions must die. Paying 90€ for the game, some skins and early access feels ridiculously high.
 

Sadire

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,566
Honestly did not like Max much in the original, she fell flat a lot of the time to me.

But I am sort of interested in this.
My big thing is I just don't buy the logic that time travel causes tornadoes

Probably some other mutant who wanted Chloe dead in shadows using wind powers
Figured it was a Steins;Gate thing, you messed with fate and now stuff goes awry. Although that was more time travel, and less altering particular outcomes/bullying that one mean girl.
 

Chaserjoey

Keeper of the White Materia
Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,382
Really hope they clarify the number of episodes and if there's an ultimate edition upgrade path cause I want the physical copy but I also want the cat quests and Final Fantasy clothing.

And I hope there's moments that go beyond the traditional gameplay loop. Episode 3 in True Colours was sooooo good when it ventured into RPG land.