also so is Will of Ionia :(, more thoughts to come but overall I love it :)
But yeah catch me on ladder in Masters with MF Scouts
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also so is Will of Ionia :(, more thoughts to come but overall I love it :)
But yeah catch me on ladder in Masters with MF Scouts
Time Trick is genuinely kind of nutty imo. Huge card filtering powah, even if you're not trying to make Predict decks a thing (though Zilean is always going to want to dip into P/Z now). Think it'll be a staple moving forwards.
Im not sure the bundle will necessarily stay, but I'm sure the board itself and skins will!
What do you mean back to bilgewater? Ive been here.
Except I was losing 🤡
Man I am kinda worried about Lurk's viability overall. Feels like if you don't high roll the champions you struggle to win matches against good decks. I think either Bone Skewer should have had Lurk tag as well or Lurk checked the top 3 cards in your deck or some of the Lurk units had more HP so they don't get easily removed (since this region severely lacks ways to buff units).
Well if it flops then Riot will just buff in a couple of patches so it's fine. I am actually even more worried about Ekko. His pay off win condition makes no sense in the type of Predict decks of the two regions since his win condition is very board based. These decks have very flimsy units that have their strength in their own play effects. I don't know, maybe someone hasn't cracked it yet but it's not filling with confidence.
At least the balance patch is substantial. If there wasn't a balance patch of this size accompanying this expansion then there would have been riots.
Well if it flops then Riot will just buff in a couple of patches so it's fine. I am actually even more worried about Ekko. His pay off win condition makes no sense in the type of Predict decks of the two regions since his win condition is very board based. These decks have very flimsy units that have their strength in their own play effects. I don't know, maybe someone hasn't cracked it yet but it's not filling with confidence.
At least the balance patch is substantial. If there wasn't a balance patch of this size accompanying this expansion then there would have been riots.
Looking at Lurk, it seems like the play pattern really is: make every one of your followers trade 1:1 because of attack buffs. They eventually run out of dudes to play, and you run them over by going wide with a handful of 1-2 drops + reksai or another topend overwhelm. It's not going to be consistent by its nature. It's going to be tier 2 at best, and that's ok.
okaythoughts:
- Ekko seems decent but also we thought Zilean would be good, it remains to be seen if the pay off for generated cards is worth the tempo loss from Predicting.
- Time Trick seems like a nutty cantrip. Called Shot I don't see being played outside of a champ spell, but it is technically a P&Z win condition cantrip so who knows?
- Lurk seems good but as mentioned by Dahbomb maybe a little high rolly but as Lumination said, Tier 2 is fine. That's climbable.
- Really happy about MF / Make it Rain, with that and maybe Field Promotion Scouts should be Tier 2 again.
- Azirelia being slowed down by a turn is huge. It's gigantic. It was a combo deck that could win at aggro speed with a nut hand. It can't do that anymore. The win rates against aggro and even stuff like Dragons will plummet. Favorable matchups will probably stay favorable.
- Riven / Heimer / Tryndamere / Hecarim / Taric / Aphelios buffs, sure. Probably won't be competitive, but raising the floor is fine.
- Taliyah change means barely anything but welcome overall, especially for Lab of Legends. She's got a place in Thralls which is basically a lock to be a good.
- Nasus. Very solid nerf. Won't blow the archetype out, but will make it fairer.
- Sivir. Love her, might actually drag her up if the right deck is found.
- Karma / Will of Ionia................ uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Remains to be seen. Dunno if Ionia needed Will reverted like Bilgewater needed Make it Rain. Karma could be viable again.
- Token buffs on crappy cards are good. Take the weakest win rate cards, give them +1 or whatever, it's cool. Reduce the cost of meme cards by 1. It's fine. It's a buff for someone even if it's still not remotely competitive. You could see it as padding patch notes, but I dunno, still good to see. Like I said, raise the floor. That's a good thing, especially for casuals.
- Rummage / Tribeam RIP Ez Draven, but that deck was basically very good for what, 9 months now or something? It just wasn't played all that much.
- Shadow Isles and Targon both got pulled down a bit with a few of their core cards getting hit. Reduce their playrate for a while is solid.
I love everything except Will of Ionia, for obvious reasons. Rummage and Stalking Shadows are both really strong draw cards, I wonder if their regions will struggle without em. Exciting times.
- Ekko seems decent but also we thought Zilean would be good, it remains to be seen if the pay off for generated cards is worth the tempo loss from Predicting.
- Time Trick seems like a nutty cantrip. Called Shot I don't see being played outside of a champ spell, but it is technically a P&Z win condition cantrip so who knows?
- Lurk seems good but as mentioned by Dahbomb maybe a little high rolly but as Lumination said, Tier 2 is fine. That's climbable.
- Really happy about MF / Make it Rain, with that and maybe Field Promotion Scouts should be Tier 2 again.
- Azirelia being slowed down by a turn is huge. It's gigantic. It was a combo deck that could win at aggro speed with a nut hand. It can't do that anymore. The win rates against aggro and even stuff like Dragons will plummet. Favorable matchups will probably stay favorable.
- Riven / Heimer / Tryndamere / Hecarim / Taric / Aphelios buffs, sure. Probably won't be competitive, but raising the floor is fine.
- Taliyah change means barely anything but welcome overall, especially for Lab of Legends. She's got a place in Thralls which is basically a lock to be a good.
- Nasus. Very solid nerf. Won't blow the archetype out, but will make it fairer.
- Sivir. Love her, might actually drag her up if the right deck is found.
- Karma / Will of Ionia................ uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Remains to be seen. Dunno if Ionia needed Will reverted like Bilgewater needed Make it Rain. Karma could be viable again.
- Token buffs on crappy cards are good. Take the weakest win rate cards, give them +1 or whatever, it's cool. Reduce the cost of meme cards by 1. It's fine. It's a buff for someone even if it's still not remotely competitive. You could see it as padding patch notes, but I dunno, still good to see. Like I said, raise the floor. That's a good thing, especially for casuals.
- Rummage / Tribeam RIP Ez Draven, but that deck was basically very good for what, 9 months now or something? It just wasn't played all that much.
- Shadow Isles and Targon both got pulled down a bit with a few of their core cards getting hit. Reduce their playrate for a while is solid.
I love everything except Will of Ionia, for obvious reasons. Rummage and Stalking Shadows are both really strong draw cards, I wonder if their regions will struggle without em. Exciting times.
Awesome patch. The best part of it for me is the mental image of LoR team going "you wanted changes well here they are motherfuckers" before posting the patch notes.
Regarding changes themselves, I am not a fan of Droplet nerf (they made a lot of recall-related cards for Ionia, if the archetype should work, it needs cards like this) and Twin Disciplines buff, I feel like it might get a bit too crazy now.
Nasus and Azir nerfs kinda suck as they weaken the already weak Sun Disc, but do not matter that much for ThreshNasus.
Also not a fan of streamers playing early. It sucks a lot. Obviously the best decks will emerge over time anyway, but this is kneecapping the best time of any release.
Regarding changes themselves, I am not a fan of Droplet nerf (they made a lot of recall-related cards for Ionia, if the archetype should work, it needs cards like this) and Twin Disciplines buff, I feel like it might get a bit too crazy now.
Nasus and Azir nerfs kinda suck as they weaken the already weak Sun Disc, but do not matter that much for ThreshNasus.
Also not a fan of streamers playing early. It sucks a lot. Obviously the best decks will emerge over time anyway, but this is kneecapping the best time of any release.
Forget about the sun disc. It will remain burried. In the hindsight, none of the Ascended champions are related to landmarks or countdown omegalul. This is definitely a failure where the champions/cards who *might* be able to advance the sundisc are not the ones benefitting from it.
Both skins are weak. Definitely feels like we are getting 520-975 RP LoL skins before we get the crazy ones.
Patch is out! Got a champ prismatic and my choices were Irelia, Kat, Malphite 🙃
Also undocumented change, Leona lv 2 has Overwhelm now!
Also undocumented change, Leona lv 2 has Overwhelm now!
Leona lvl 2 Overwhelm is pretty sick. Daybreak is definitely going to need more than that to make it viable though.
I think it's odd that Daybreak is limited to just Targon while Nightfall went to both Targon and SI. When Daybreak first came out, I was certain that's was because Shurima would get it too, but it never did.
I think it's odd that Daybreak is limited to just Targon while Nightfall went to both Targon and SI. When Daybreak first came out, I was certain that's was because Shurima would get it too, but it never did.
Same. Weird that Daybreak doesn't have a second half.
Maybe Ixtal? Copium
Shen, Jarvan has been good. Probably going to switch it up a bit because of all the pirate aggro.
Might actually climb to masters this season! It's been a while. The meta actually seems really good.
Might actually climb to masters this season! It's been a while. The meta actually seems really good.
the skins are 700 - you see them at 1000 if you don't own the card (+300 for a copy of the ard)
Done for today. Had a lot of fun building decks but oh boy if the variety I faced was abysmal. 12/13 in normal were lurk decks and about 80% in ranked were Ekko, the vast majority clearly the same list.
It's actually worse to play in release day than mid-season, much worse. I'm thinking the easy of access to cards in LoR exacerbates the problem.
Yeti/Poro/Elnuk deck could be mid-tier, the 3 mana potentially draw 4 cards is insane! Activating the new 8 mana Yeti is somewhat consistent and a swing play early in the game.
Removing Poros might be the way to strengthen it. I'll have to experiment.
It's actually worse to play in release day than mid-season, much worse. I'm thinking the easy of access to cards in LoR exacerbates the problem.
Yeti/Poro/Elnuk deck could be mid-tier, the 3 mana potentially draw 4 cards is insane! Activating the new 8 mana Yeti is somewhat consistent and a swing play early in the game.
Removing Poros might be the way to strengthen it. I'll have to experiment.
Hm. Played this deck today and it really seems like Greenglade duo doesn't work in this deck. I think you want something else in that slot. I only run one Brightsteel so it wasn't hitting it all that often. And hitting Jarven doesn't matter that much.
Rep yetis is probably better with trifarian assessor
Had a huge blast from the past seeing all sorts of old Champs in Ranked.
Saw Lux/Karma, Heimerdinger/Ekko, Riven decks TF + Swain, Scouts, Lee Sins, Yetis... even Hecarims.
A lot of excitement with the patch. Had a lot of fun playing Lurk in Gold ranks.
Saw Lux/Karma, Heimerdinger/Ekko, Riven decks TF + Swain, Scouts, Lee Sins, Yetis... even Hecarims.
A lot of excitement with the patch. Had a lot of fun playing Lurk in Gold ranks.
My goal this season is to make a freaky Swain deck to climb with. I might start by modifying the Swain MF deck I was already working on since there are buffs though! Pray for m- I mean wish me luck!
Really nice shakeup of the meta with that balance patch. Was browsing around mobalytics and saw precipic's ekko go hard, feels really good to play so far, climbed a rank with it. Beats lurk nicely and seems to do well against most decks so far, really shuts down shen decks too. Practical Perfectionist is definitely fun to play with.
https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/c3eeb8aonmgv5539m5og
Looking around to see if there's other interesting decks to be built, the last few expansions definitely feel a bit too restrictive in terms of what new decks can be built. Trying to figure out if there's a deck to be had with The List, Snapjaw Swarm, maybe even Bloodbait so far, Miss Fortune build around with Freljord feels like one but The List may need a bit too much setup to build around. Maybe a new version of Irelia Azir? Built some decks around Greenglade Lookout, don't think it's good enough, and it's just a very inflexible ramp card. Some kind of burn with Astral Fox?
Not seeing as much Make it Rain and Will of Ionia yet, wonder how much they'll shape the meta eventually.
https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/c3eeb8aonmgv5539m5og
Looking around to see if there's other interesting decks to be built, the last few expansions definitely feel a bit too restrictive in terms of what new decks can be built. Trying to figure out if there's a deck to be had with The List, Snapjaw Swarm, maybe even Bloodbait so far, Miss Fortune build around with Freljord feels like one but The List may need a bit too much setup to build around. Maybe a new version of Irelia Azir? Built some decks around Greenglade Lookout, don't think it's good enough, and it's just a very inflexible ramp card. Some kind of burn with Astral Fox?
Not seeing as much Make it Rain and Will of Ionia yet, wonder how much they'll shape the meta eventually.
Had all hell break loose and haven't been able to play all day, sad vibes.
Did open up the game and get a Champion Prismatic Reward between Karma, Heimer and Tahm Kench. Sorry Karma, not betting on you, it's TK all the way.
Did open up the game and get a Champion Prismatic Reward between Karma, Heimer and Tahm Kench. Sorry Karma, not betting on you, it's TK all the way.
Had a ton of fun playing Ekko/Zil in Expeditions. Managed to do a double-rally with Ekko spells cheating the opponent out of a deserved victory.
Quite a few cards to rally behind, but the buckets really want you to use the 3 damage fist spell or that 4/3 for 2 mana if you drew it this turn. I couldn't build a good deck because of how many bad cards are there in buckets, or cards that need combos and multiple duplicates to function.
Lurk, on the other hand, it is Lurk-bonanza when you grab Reksai/Pyke. This will easily rule Expeditions as being the most consistent deck to build.
Quite a few cards to rally behind, but the buckets really want you to use the 3 damage fist spell or that 4/3 for 2 mana if you drew it this turn. I couldn't build a good deck because of how many bad cards are there in buckets, or cards that need combos and multiple duplicates to function.
Lurk, on the other hand, it is Lurk-bonanza when you grab Reksai/Pyke. This will easily rule Expeditions as being the most consistent deck to build.
• Ate shit in the first Expedition with game trolling me.
• Picked Kindred in the next one, 7 wins baby, she slays!
Kindred might need changes, or supporting cards as laughable as Gluttony or Spirit Journey. With stalking shadows getting a bonk, Kindred and Nocturne are a bit of the unintended losers in this patch. Expedition Kindred puts an absurd amount of pressure on the opponent, sending one unit into the slaughterhouse every turn she stays on the field.
• Picked Kindred in the next one, 7 wins baby, she slays!
Kindred might need changes, or supporting cards as laughable as Gluttony or Spirit Journey. With stalking shadows getting a bonk, Kindred and Nocturne are a bit of the unintended losers in this patch. Expedition Kindred puts an absurd amount of pressure on the opponent, sending one unit into the slaughterhouse every turn she stays on the field.
Ashe + Le blanc + Yetis seems strong. Bit difficult to fit everything you want in the deck list though. maybe need to cut Yeti Yearling. Add some healing for pirate aggro
Stats are starting to come out.
*Thresh Nasus took a massive hit in win rates and playrates. Honestly more than I expected, I thought it should still be tier 2 caliber deck.
*Azirelia took a big hit but it went from tier 0 best deck in the game to a balanced tier 2 win rate.
*TLC of course is non existent but Ez Draven not as bad of a hit as expected (still worse than before).
*Three biggest winners of the patch are Thralls, Shen Jarvan and Pirate Burn (in that order) with various forms of TF + Ezrael + GP decks coming up and Overwhelm. Despite everyone hyping up Lee Sin, he usually always has bad ladder win rate but I expect him to have big tournament presence due to Thralls.
*Lurk supporting tier 2-3 winrate so it actually came out quite balanced (not OP but not garbage). Ekko on the otherhand is currently the worst winrate champion however I think he has a higher floor for value and will see slot in good decks (like a Go Hard deck that doesn't play for his level up condition). Zilean still bad btw.
*Karma still flopping however a lot of people running all sorts of weird decks with her.
*Leblanc Sivir actually putting up really good numbers too.
Rest of the stuff is too small sample to come to a conclusion. I am seeing some Spider Aggro decks and they still have good enough winrates. Same for Discard Aggro.
*Thresh Nasus took a massive hit in win rates and playrates. Honestly more than I expected, I thought it should still be tier 2 caliber deck.
*Azirelia took a big hit but it went from tier 0 best deck in the game to a balanced tier 2 win rate.
*TLC of course is non existent but Ez Draven not as bad of a hit as expected (still worse than before).
*Three biggest winners of the patch are Thralls, Shen Jarvan and Pirate Burn (in that order) with various forms of TF + Ezrael + GP decks coming up and Overwhelm. Despite everyone hyping up Lee Sin, he usually always has bad ladder win rate but I expect him to have big tournament presence due to Thralls.
*Lurk supporting tier 2-3 winrate so it actually came out quite balanced (not OP but not garbage). Ekko on the otherhand is currently the worst winrate champion however I think he has a higher floor for value and will see slot in good decks (like a Go Hard deck that doesn't play for his level up condition). Zilean still bad btw.
*Karma still flopping however a lot of people running all sorts of weird decks with her.
*Leblanc Sivir actually putting up really good numbers too.
Rest of the stuff is too small sample to come to a conclusion. I am seeing some Spider Aggro decks and they still have good enough winrates. Same for Discard Aggro.
Don't sleep on J4. He can very frequently level up on t6 now. There are not uncommon board states where he can go from 0 to levelup on t6.
Shen/Jarvan is definitely a tier 1 deck right now. I think tier 1 is Thralls, Shen/Jarvan and Pirate Aggro but very likely to change around once meta settles. Ashe looking really good in a meta with lots of Shen/Jarvan. And of course Ez + TF the return combined with various Ionia decks. The good thing is that all these decks are quite fair, Thralls is going to be frustrating to play against for a lot of decks but it is a counterable deck by a wider range of field.
Lee Sin has to be theoretical tier 1 IMO. I wonder how long the fun last until a tier 0 deck is discovered lol.
Lee Sin has to be theoretical tier 1 IMO. I wonder how long the fun last until a tier 0 deck is discovered lol.
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I am so sorry.
here's my version if any wants - CECQCAYBAIAQIAISAECAGBACAEBR6IIHAEAQWDQ6D4TDAMYBAECACCQCAEAQCAIBAQBQQ
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Idk about that, I played against a Pyke/Rek'sai in expeditions earlier and the dude missed lurk 4 times in a row. I think the problem with lurk in expeditions is that sticking solely to the lurk bucket is going to fuck up your curve too much but dabbling outside that bucket to help your curve is just going to ruin your lurks.
With all the plunder the deck does, it's the most thematically correct.
I have wasted all of my Expeditions already. Last one got 5 wins with Yasuo. Yet to pick Lurkers myself to see how it goes.
With Ekko, you have quite a few paths to go with, and they dont really work together because you must aim for 2+ of that flying obliterate 1/2, or 4/4 +2/+2 wizard. Lots of pitfalls if you cannot grab 3 copies of the same card. And doing all the predicting/copying takes away precious mana in the early game. Ekko is also super-easy to kill, with 2 health in the PnZ/Shurima deck, he has almost no viable protection.
I think Lurkers are definitely weak to Freljord decks (freezes and wipes), as well as SI, but they should outmuscle quite a few other aggro decks with consistency and heavy hitters. With Reksai and that other Lurk-fuel card, they seem to avoid spiders/nightfall problem of running out of units too fast.
I do believe, it's what I've been playing and it's a fun deck! I really dug it last season but obviously had to stop using it at some point, traded it out for Ashe LeBonk and then eventually had to trade that out for Dragons and at that point I was kind of done with ladder in terms of me having a good time. I tried out Ashe/LeBlanc Yetis for a bit yesterday but felt like I just wanted to go back and play some Lebonk Sivir.
To clarify, I'm not sure how long it'll have that sort of winrate, but I've mostly ran into Lurk decks or Pirate Aggro and it's pretty good against both- the overwhelm makes the low health on the Lurk decks a benefit, and that mostly applies to Pirate Aggro as well. And lots of quick attacks also make it pretty easy to take out threats, LeBlanc is usually the one who suffers the most since it is hard to protect her before Sivir can give her spellshield on your turn.
The new 1 drop is big for the deck and the 6 mana rally card isn't too irrelevant either. The Sivir buff is relevant here as well. I did play it and while it's a solid deck, it does get kinda smashed by Shen/J4 and Ashe decks since it is also a midrange deck.
I'm so happy to see the game seems to be going into a midrange meta. I think it's definitely where LoR excels most as a card game.
Ekko may have a low win rate, but a lot of streamers are playing Ekko/Zilean to great effect. I think it might just be a deck with a high skill floor to play right. It's a scary deck though when played right. I think those numbers may be a bit low too because people keep trying to pair Ekko in other regions besides Shurima and I just don't think that's going to work. Unleveled Ekko isn't very good and you can only really level Ekko reliably with Shurima's extra predict support.
Ekko may have a low win rate, but a lot of streamers are playing Ekko/Zilean to great effect. I think it might just be a deck with a high skill floor to play right. It's a scary deck though when played right. I think those numbers may be a bit low too because people keep trying to pair Ekko in other regions besides Shurima and I just don't think that's going to work. Unleveled Ekko isn't very good and you can only really level Ekko reliably with Shurima's extra predict support.
I'm looking to pilot a new Sivir/LB deck, where do you see this data? I'm just curious what swaps have happened with the deck since the new set launched.
I thought Fizz would've gotten reworked with this patch but he wasn't. Still feel like he may be too weak. His ability isn't even that great either when leveled. Maybe I'm just using him wrong…?
Just that new 1 drop Treasure Seeker mainly.
This is the deck on Mobalytics if you are interested:
Fizz is a good hero particularly in TF Fizz deck but generally people don't use him for the level up. Him being a 1 drop means he is meant to be an annoying maggot and deny removal spells on him. Fizz + turn 2 drawn Suit Up is usually GG.
Oh damn, I need to add that card to my deck…I'm having a TON of fun with this Ez/Fizz deck but Fizz wasn't really doing too much other than having elusive. Though with this card…I'd be able to make a lot of units look nice. Adds a lot of util to the deck.
Lebonk Sivir? Cool
Every 1 drop champ in LoR is solid
Try TF Fizz, he's a very good champ
Every 1 drop champ in LoR is solid
Not surprised about Sivir LB. Surprised about Treasure Seeker. Didn't think that deck could spare 2m for reputation/level up, but that's the magic of cards you don't have to maindeck. Figured the 2/1 that becomes a 5/1 when blocked would've been the difference maker.
They use both of the one drops.
Loving this meta so far. Seeing so much resurgence of old decks. It's crazy how much the core cards in the regions make a big difference. Twin Disciplines is kinda OD not going to lie.
Multipke people hit Masters so far and it has been very different decks: Ez Karma, Pirate Burn, TF+Swain, Lurk, Yetis, Yasuo Leona, Ez Draven, Taric Jarvan, Shen Jarvan, FTR, Zed Elusives, Sejuani Teemo.
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