No shit that's literally what the post you quoted is talking about.
Kotaku (Stephen Totilo) apologizes for "that" recent porn article
- Thread starter Chairmanchuck (另一个我)
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I'm fine with the apology for the most part. I think Stephen definitely could have emphasized more about the fact that what disturbed people was the underaged nature of some of the characters—he mentions it briefly but doesn't linger on that point in any way.
They fucked up. They owned up to it. The writer isn't an employee, and hopefully they stop contracting her. If they do, and if the article approval process improves as a result—as Stephen says it will—I don't see any reason to hold some kind of ongoing grudge over this. It's not like this is some kind of ongoing problem of theirs.
They fucked up. They owned up to it. The writer isn't an employee, and hopefully they stop contracting her. If they do, and if the article approval process improves as a result—as Stephen says it will—I don't see any reason to hold some kind of ongoing grudge over this. It's not like this is some kind of ongoing problem of theirs.
Yeah, it says a lot about the integrity and judgment of Kotaku's team for not only approving the article in the first place, but giving such a sorry-ass apology. Good lord.
I think the biggest problem is that if you take the statements they make in their apology as legit, editorial didn't actually approve the piece. There are a number of bigger issues I have with the apology anyway, but it does mean that if they're being honest then there isn't an easy finger to point at for who fucked up.
Yeah, sorry, I misread their intention. I thought they were suggesting that because we're up in arms over child porn we should also be up in arms over violent video games as some sort of baffling false equivalence.
It's not saying that at all, it's saying that there is a disconnect for some people because the media is fictional, thus they aren't meaningful reflecting on what it actually represents because of the fictional nature of it. Which is a very real phenomenon, and this article being posted in the manner it was is emblematic of that.
Edit: I saw your edit, hopefully you get it now.
I'm honestly surprised people don't have a problem with the content that is in stuff like Persona nor the language used around such content. It might not be explicit content but you chirps teenagers and grown ass people call young character waifu's (think that's correct). Once I realised that was part of the game I deleted it immediately yet very few seem to have a problem with it and rarely see people getting called out for using those terms online. It is messed up.
Yeah, this my view of this. She shouldn't fire or be burned alive for this, she should be allowed to learn from what she did and I'm sure she's probably capable of doing that. The apology not mentioning the true reason people are upset is regrettable, but I agree with the other person's theory that it might be a legal issue about admitting something like that happened in various places.
That was the point of my post though, it still falls into the realm of fiction, not reality, and for a number of people (particularly in the gaming community), that's the distinction that matters (regardless of other context) and the conversation stops there. And that's a real phenomenon that has to be addressed in dealing with things beyond the article itself.
Christ you've missed the point of my post then. I wasn't saying go be up in arms over violent video games, I was addressing the fact that the ideas of separating fiction from reality are somewhat deeply rooted in the gaming community. It doesn't matter what the fiction is, we've set somewhat of a precedent that has to be addressed as to how we approach this issue and other issues like it in the community. Saying you're disturbed by it is great at communicating your disapproval to an echo chamber of disapproval and possibly drawing more attention to the improper actions in the first place, but doesn't actually address the issues at hand. My point was this; Gaming has frequently normalized horrific ideas in the media on the basis that fiction is separate and reality and has no meaningful/scientific bearing on reality (with regards to violence). It's not a stretch in the least bit to see that same community apply those standards set to fictitious pornography and not make any issue of it, especially one that frequently doesn't respond well to people calling out issues with sexualization in video games on the basis of, "It's just fiction/game/not real." It's examining the behavior of people and why this sort of thing can slip through the cracks and be normalized to the point where it doesn't even draw headlines from other communities/websites/etc.
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Dude you literally live in the country that had Skins on TV. Teenagers having sex in media or being sexual in media is far from some new phenomenon. Persona has issues in this regard (mainly because it tries to criticize this trend while also engaging in it, and also attempting to normalize relationships between high school students and adults) but your posts in this thread just reveal that you are pretty naive.
Again, great post.
I don't disagree with this -- I accidentally skipped past your original post and wildly misconstrued the follow-up as a result. I apologize for the confusion.
I browse Google. I browse Pornhub. Not once have I run into animated child porn. I search for what I want and view it.
This article however came up on a forum and then a website where I would not expect it. Despite a NSFW warning, I still didn't expect child porn. I'm not happy, and I have every right to complain. Fuck Kotaku and their shitty apology. The writer openly watches animated child porn and then talks about it (not even in an eye opening or educational way), and has now gone all quite about it. Perhaps Google and Pornhub could do better too, and they should do better, but that's completely irrelevant.
Long answer, Pornhub is largely unmoderated and receives a large volume of content every day, so yes.
short answer, yes:
How is it completely irrelevant when Pornhub is the literal source of the screengrabs used in the article? Just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it's not common. Also it was discussed in an eye-opening way, hence your eyes being opened to the prevalence of this content
We've had a thread on every single Pornhub search data break down on this site and terms like 'teen' and teenage fictional characters are always high in the search data. That wouldn't be the case if this content didn't exist.
Ultimately when I read posts like this all I see is people complaining that they had this stuff revealed to them. Well guess what? You need to know about it.
I mean yeah technically they do. As do Reddit, Twitter, Google, Tumblr until they nuked all porn content, and literally every other website that allows porn.
Some power users, smh. Roughly 15% of the posts in a thread like this quasi-defending garbage quality writing and posting (drawn) child porn in a public article because... what's worse are supposed overreactions?
Whatever important sex/porn related discussions there are to be had, you won't get them from that author.
Whatever important sex/porn related discussions there are to be had, you won't get them from that author.
Why is asking proper responsibility for a particular, very grave mistake is 'misguided'? Why must also it solves 'something'?
A person in here makes a TERRIBLE mistake, they should take responsibility for it. Making a person taking responsibility for their mistake is how it works, even if by doing so doesnt solve every problem in this world.
If they're not being honest or legit with their apology then it's worse. As to where to point the finger at for who fucked up, simple, just point it at 'Kotaku'.
If their organization is so incredibly incompetent that an article with actual, explicit depiction of child porn can appear on their site, then I have no problem of doing so.
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Who is talking about solving all problems in the world? Firing an editor doesn't solve any problems. Totilo took responsibility for the article with this apology.
Totilo expanded on the apology in responding to a comment on the page:
Sounds to me like Totilo gets it.
Your problem is thinking malintent is a requirement or precondition for real consequences and discharge.
That's not how life works. If you're incompetent enough to post depictions of child pornography on your website, you deserve to lose your position of power. You've proven you can't be trusted with that level of responsibility, whether malintent or gross negligence.
But don't mind me as it won't sink in for you tonight, I don't think. Just keep volume posting.
I just wanted to reiterate my point in the other thread: if in their search for "video game porn" they stumbled upon a bunch of underage porn and didn't even think critically about it, that speaks to larger issues in our culture with pedophilia (teen porn is the most popular form of porn, for example). Kotaku shouldn't be giving it a platform but we should think more critically about how we consume pornography and how it affects us (and how immediately accessible it is).
EDIT: That full apology by Totilo is what should have been posted immediately by him, but better late than never.
EDIT: That full apology by Totilo is what should have been posted immediately by him, but better late than never.
I don't think bad intentions are necessary for responsibility or consequences, I think Totilo has shown that he clearly understands the problem with the article that was posted and that people calling for someone to be fired are wrong.
Absolutely, and all this focus on 'banning Kotaku' is a distraction from that very real problem.
I see the usual suspects are still at it.
The lengths y'all go through to shift the blame from Kotaku (which this topic is about) is gross.
Seriously, it was a shit apology and them skirting around the issue is downright insulting and hypocritical (especially coming from Kotaku)
The lengths y'all go through to shift the blame from Kotaku (which this topic is about) is gross.
Seriously, it was a shit apology and them skirting around the issue is downright insulting and hypocritical (especially coming from Kotaku)
Did you read the expanded apology? Totilo is not skirting around the issue. Furthermore, this issue is far bigger than Kotaku. Bringing that up is not 'deflecting', it's trying to have an actual discussion about the wider problem here.
I think if Kotaku didn't drag their feet so much and just immediately pulled the plug and issued a full apology to the effect of what you posted, it wouldn't have been an issue. The thread had what, dozens of pages before it was taken care of? People were growing impatient and angry, and they kept putting out half-ass "fixes" like changing the images. It's at least a reason to be wary of the editorial staff going forward (apparently Totilo didn't even read it before it went up). I understand people being upset about it, partially because this is the gaming side and it's easier to say "ban Kotaku" than "let's work to dismantle the culture of pedophilia perpetuated by internet porn."
I wouldn't fault people for wanting to ban Kotaku, I think it reflects really badly on the site that it took this long for a proper apology and addressing of the issue, at the very least some skepticism going forward is warranted for how they handled this whole mess. But I do hope some people take away from this how insanely accessible and normalized drawn child porn is, and how it reflects a bigger issue in our culture regarding the sexualization of minors.
Ultimately, this will be brought up whenever they talk about abuse or really any social topics, you can't post child porn, even if fictional characters and claim any moral high ground. It doesn't matter that an editor didn't approve of it, if it's your website, it's your piece and anything else on the website ends up being colored by this mistake.
Kotaku needs to review their system, make their editors responsible for all future pieces and work on this for years, it's not some small thing, what if these characters were more life like? We got to trust you Kotaku, you got to do better than this.
It falls directly on the editor staff, they should have a system in place for this sort of thing. When the NotEnoughShaders website was around, I was part of the "editor" staff, we approved every article we put up, and nothing like this would have gone up on the site. It boggles my mind that a freelancer was able to just hit publish, that isn't how a small hobby site like ours worked, how could you run a site as big as this, with money and employees, have editors on staff, and just let freelancers self publish their works like it's their personal Twitter.
Kotaku needs to review their system, make their editors responsible for all future pieces and work on this for years, it's not some small thing, what if these characters were more life like? We got to trust you Kotaku, you got to do better than this.
Sure, I get being angry. I was angry the day it happened too. I don't think people are having the take away you are talking about, and that frustrates me.
Surprised that Stephen still has this job despite the shit that he and his team often find themselves wallowing in.
I'm curious what communities Kate Grey frequents. I mean, what led her to believe that nobody would care if she posted explicit underage porn?
Or hell, just explicit porn in general.
Or hell, just explicit porn in general.
Can't wait for the weekend, gonna invite my buds over to have some beers and snacks and watch some animated child porn together so I can blog about it!
I'm just trying to imagine the mindset that lead to this article happening in the first place and it just doesn't compute for me. Who the fuck does this?
I'm just trying to imagine the mindset that lead to this article happening in the first place and it just doesn't compute for me. Who the fuck does this?
There's probably a Managing Editor or Features Editor under Stephen that looks at articles before they go up. I've worked with Kotaku—they tend to go through all their content very carefully before it goes up, especially if it's from a freelance writer. This was a genuine misread or slip-up on somebody's part, and it happens sometimes. It's fine. I'm sure they'll take the necessary steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. Mistakes happen.
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It's your opinion that it is fine, you have a personal history with the site, and that is fine too. Mostly everyone else doesn't, sites have to worry about their image, and this was a blow to theirs, there are people now who tie fictional child porn to the site, so for ALOT of people, it isn't fine. That will take time to repair, and just because you've had an experience where they were professional, it is obviously not always the case and they now have to look at that process and spend years redeveloping the trust of those readers.
What about readers who were molested/raped as children? I'm sure they didn't expect to see such explicit content on a site that has done good work for over a decade. I'm not trying to attack the site, but I do think you can't just say it's fine in a blanket statement like that and say it usually doesn't happen. I didn't read the piece, but I do read Kotaku weekly and I do find myself thinking of avoiding their content until they make these changes and understand that it wasn't just "teen" sex, but underage sex, there are adult teens and it's just a sly way of framing the issue, it's sort of smiley and I can't say I'm impressed.
I already talked about how I felt about it, as have other people with sexual abuse trauma who post on the site. Did I expect to see that on Kotaku? No. Did I find it triggering? Yes. Considering the people who abused me used this kind of content to groom me, I'm well aware that stuff like this exists on every major platform. it was not shocking to me, nor am I really that surprised that something like this would happen.
The fact that they are even trying to talk about the subject all made me feel seen though, tbh. Even though they did it in the worst way possible, it makes me think they may try to cover this issue better in the future. And considering that this is something that hardly ever gets talked about in mainstream media...I hope they do.
I can't speak to the way other people on this forum with sexual abuse trauma feel about this, only myself. I'm also not gonna say who they are because they may not be as comfortable talking about it.
Thanks for sharing your point of view, I didn't read the article, but I was molested as a small child by my teenage babysitter, I don't think I would have liked running into this.
Thanks for sharing yours as well. I mean you probably wouldn't have, most people wouldn't. It would probably be triggering for you as well I would assume.
It says a lot about how the apology excuses itself by saying they are "about popular animated porn videos involving well-known gaming and geek franchises: Harry Potter, Pokémon and Zelda " and " what does it mean that these parody videos about these particular franchises, many of which feature teenage characters and whose source material is geared towards young audiences, are so popular on websites like PornHub, some with more than 700,000 views? ".
So because they are popular and fictional is ok to make porn about literal children characters? Is it ok to post them in their site?
At least I am glad they got so much backlash.
So because they are popular and fictional is ok to make porn about literal children characters? Is it ok to post them in their site?
At least I am glad they got so much backlash.
This is unacceptable. It's a non-apology which doesn't even mention the actual problem (that it was child porn that was posted). Also Kate Gray should face some real repercussions for this. To make this right Kotaku should at least announce that they will never work with her again.
Think you are missing the point. The fact that those videos are so common and popular is worthy of discussion. It means that hundreds of thousands of people are consuming this content...that to hundreds of thousands of people, this kind of content is normal or acceptable in some way. That is worthy of discussion, because it's a very real and current problem that barely anyone is talking about. Like if you believe this content is harmful (I do) then the fact that it is so common and popular should bother you...and you should probably find it worthy of further examination.
Nowhere did Totilo say it was OK...hence why they took the images down.
They are worthy of discussion, sure, but the article was not discusing them. The article was pretty much "Hey, this exists, let me describe it to you, funny, right? Look at it."
And they didn't seem to directly apologize about what people got the most upset about, the actual nature of the porn.
I can't get my head around what in the world you are saying. The article did not discuss the points you are making. The author watched child porn, talked about child porn, and said it could be better. I'm so confused about what you are on about.