Jason Schreier: "Final Fantasy VII Remake's Box Art Sure Is Misleading"

[Scythesurge]

The thing that concerns me with multiple parts is how many of the story elements can actually have a satisfying conclusion? The game is both Part 1 of a remake and something that needs to stand on its own, and I fail to see how they can adequately juggle those two. The Hobbit failed in that regard despite only having 8.5 hours of story, FFVIIr will likely end up having at least 50 hours of story content by the time it's done.

Click to shrink...

Totally agree with this point as well. The more parts they are planning the more stories they need to stand up on their own experience. If it's just two parts then I could see this being handled well enough, but past that then it could be a Hobbit movie type situation.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

I have to wonder if other parts will be as expanded as Midgar because then how do you name them?

Click to shrink...

2: Cry of the Ancients
3: The Reunion
4: Advent Children R

 

[PlanetSmasher]

It's a single book.

Sort of like how FF7 was a single game, and now the remake is expanding into multiple full length games.

Click to shrink...

Just like the Hobbit. And we all saw how well that went.

 

[Edge]

You will have your answer once FFVII-2 is announced. 😬

 

[Rosebud]

The thing is, who gives a shit about how long it is? The story, the most important part of an RPG, is incomplete. It's basically walking away at the beginning of the prologue.

Click to shrink...

This. And I'm not sure why saying that it should have "Part 1" on the cover is such a problem, it won't sell less or anything.

 

[Deleted member 16365]

Ground Zeroes wasn't listed as Part 1 of MGS5. This is PSF gaslighting at his purest.

 

[Hey Please]

I guess this single part piece of media never existed.

Click to shrink...

Jesus, this clowning never stops.

The new IT movies were based on the OG movies of the 90s that had already set the precedent for both content as well as segmentation. FFVII only ever existed as a game in the beginning and no one ever said that the remake needed to follow suit, only that the boxart reflect the reality of the remake's nature.

 

[Hieroph]

"Nobody doesn't know it's multipart, you'd have to be an idiot!" (multiple people in this thread have said this is the first time they're hearing about it)

"Square Enix has always been super clear about this!" (there was distinctly a period for a day or so right after the E3 presentation where the comments about discs vs parts lead to utter confusion and people not being sure if it was still episodic)

Click to shrink...

Not only that, we still don't know how the episodic thing is supposed to shake out. How many episodes will there be? Where does the first episode end, is it actually the end of the Midgar section or is that just an assumption? And when the hell are the following episodes even supposed to be released?

Shit's fucking crazy.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

I obviously haven't played the game so can't comment yet. When making the decision to go multipart and make consumers pay probably $180+ to see the whole of the original Final Fantasy 7 story they need to be clear with their marketing.

Click to shrink...

I guess I'm just not as cynical as you are. Game development is a business, but I don't think the splitting up into multiple games is sheerly out of a desire to make more money.

Every single-player Final Fantasy, with maybe the exception of XII, has been massively reduced in scale compared to the games on PS1 and earlier. It's sheerly because of the monumental amount of resources that would be required to replicate the huge globe-trotting adventures that were typical of many of the earlier entries, including VII. The creative team at Square wants to do just that, though, with this remake. The adventure of Final Fantasy VII, but as a fidelity even higher than FFXV. That's a pretty grand vision if you ask me. The approach of doing that over the course of several games, while fleshing out the individual chapters of the game, is super interesting to me.

I don't need a beat-for-beat replication of the original where I finish the game after 30 ~ 40 hours beating Sephiroth. I can play that game any time I want on a ton of different platforms.

I do like the characters, story, and world of Final Fantasy VII, though, and seeing it greatly expanded upon is pretty awesome. Having a full game's worth of adventures just in Midgar sound absolutely great to me.

 

[Error 52]

Ground Zeroes wasn't listed as Part 1 of MGS5. This is PSF gaslighting at his purest.

Click to shrink...

Yeah and people were perfectly happy with Ground Zeroes and it wasn't controversial at all

 

[Odeko]

$10 ticket vs. $60 game tho. And it's a movie with a full story, unlike FF VII.

Click to shrink...

So it's okay to scam people out of the full experience they were PROMISED because tickets are cheaper?

I can almost guarantee more was cut from the interminable IT book in the new movies than will be cut from FF7 in the expanded FF7R games.

 

[Spacejaws]

I actually know 2 people who play games but not many, mostly word of warcraft and some switch games, and loved FFVII and were excited hearing about FFVII remake.

They don't follow gaming news and stuff and were totally amazed by how the game looked years ago. After this E3 I asked them how they felt about it being only Midgar and they were taken aback. They had no clue it's episodic and honestly Square have been pretty murky on how that will work and even though there has been discussion of it my friends didn't have a clue I can only imagine that'll be worse in store for people seeing it on the shelf and playing it only to get a 'to be continued' on something they thought was a damn remake for £50.

Even worse if this 'full game' ends up being like 15 hours long.

 

[Big G]

I can see why the title is causing debate, but in what way has their messaging been misleading? We've known since 2015 that it's set to be episodic and they've said at much multiple times since the marketing cycle kicked in again this year.

Click to shrink...

I recall there being a lot of confusion around this past E3. Weird statements from Square like "3 Blu-ray disks worth of content" or whatever it was and even on here plenty of people were asking if the game was still episodic. At best, they've been very unclear.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

The thing is, who gives a shit about how long it is? The story, the most important part of an RPG, is incomplete. It's basically walking away at the beginning of the prologue.

Click to shrink...

Naw, prologue is the first bombing run. The entire Midgar section is already 30% of the whole story.

 

[Kinsei]

Nope, and I don't blame them for leaving Part 1 off the box. They've said this is going to have the experience and content of a full game. Putting part 1 on the box gives the impression to consumers that this doesn't have the amount of content a full game would.

Click to shrink...

I don't think people are assuming TLOU Part 2 won;t have the content of a full game.

If that's what they're worried about then they have the marketing to eliminate the misconceptions.

 

[Deleted member 16365]

Yeah and people were perfectly happy with Ground Zeroes and it wasn't controversial at all

Click to shrink...

Literally no one, no one, bought GZ thinking it was anything but the first part of a complete game.

 

[mindatlarge]

I always assumed this was just a placeholder title and the actual title was yet to be announced.

For example...FFVII Remake: Volume 1

 

[R.T Straker]

Ground Zeroes wasn't listed as Part 1 of MGS5. This is PSF gaslighting at his purest.

Click to shrink...

Ground Zeroes was also a 1 hour demo sold at 30$ ( or was it 40?) and pre release it was marketed like ''the prologue for MGS5'',

 

[Wandu]

2: Cry of the Ancients
3: The Reunion
4: Advent Children R

Click to shrink...

Get ready for part 4 for PS6!

 

[Xwing]

It is absolutely misleading to the general populace, as has been much of their messaging around the game.

That's not to say this product isn't a full game in and of itself and that it isn't worth $60 - far from it - but "remake" has a very specific connotation to it, and it should be made clear that this is the first release in a multi-part project.

Click to shrink...

See, I think everyone in the thread agrees with this sentiment. It does need to be clear that this first release is part of a multi-part project.

The fundamental disagreement is whether sticking "Part 1" on the front cover (and all of baggage that entails with having to explain, no this isn't a 3 hour game) is a fair expectation when consumers should reasonably be expected to do some bare minimum amount of reading about a game before dropping $60.00 on it.

I personally think that their openness about this being Part 1 in nearly all official descriptions of the game (very likely very clear about this on the back of the box too) is enough.

An ideal solution would be calling the game Final Fantasy 7: Upgrade or Update instead of "Remake" to avoid these types of expectations in the first place.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Naw, prologue is the first bombing run. The entire Midgar section is already 30% of the whole story.

Click to shrink...

It's not, though. It's four hours of a 35-hour game.

 

[Altair]

IT (2017-19) is based on the book not the tv series.

Click to shrink...

It's a single book.

Sort of like how FF7 was a single game, and now the remake is expanding into multiple full length games.

Click to shrink...

The "original" movie is irrelevant. It's an adaption of the book.

Click to shrink...

None of which changes anything. The two part series exists. FFVII always had a story contained in one game, not several.

 

[Future Gazer]

1) It doesn't cost $60 to watch a film
2) IT is only 2.5 hours long instead of 30+
3) IT has already had a highly-popular adaption in two parts, and that was what IT 2017 was primarily based on
4) IT has a definitive conclusion even if you never watch IT: Part 2

Click to shrink...

1) Irrelevant
2) Irrelevant
3) Highly popular lol, it's a cult TV movie and no the the new movies are not based on it
4) We don't know what sort of ending FFVII part 1 will have

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I would have called it Final Fantasy 7R : chapter 1.

Something about 'remake', 'remastered' or 'definitive edition' in a title bothers me.

Also, if FF7R can be beaten in as long as it took to get through Midgar (5-10 hours) there will be riots. People have become so accustomed to long JRPGs, I really do wonder just how much content is in FF7R. Personally I'd love a shorter RPG that's more refined, but fans will be crying bloody murder if this game is shorter than expectations.

Click to shrink...

Your post is why they aren't putting a subtitle on it, everyone int his thread knows its not a full or 1:1 remake, but alot of people think it's not a full game because they saw the word "episodic" in a headline somewhere. Imagine how much more confusing it would be if it were in the title of the game.

Not that it really matters, any confusion people have about this game is going to be cleared up very quickly once the game is out, and they can return it if they don't like it.

 

[o Tesseract]

Coming in pretty late to this thread... but has SE ever mentioned that they planned on SELLING the other parts as separate SKUs? Or is it possible that the other parts will be free to downloaded provided you've bought the first part?

Granted, SE would be insane to do this (leaving a lot of money on the table), but, is there any chance of that being a real possibility?

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Your post is why they aren't putting a subtitle on it, everyone int his thread knows its not a full or 1:1 remake, but alot of people think it's not a full game because they saw the word "episodic" in a headline somewhere.

Click to shrink...

It may be A full game, but it's not THE full game. And that's the disingenuous part. What if you want to play as Vincent or see the Gold Saucer? What if you want to use Red XIII?

 

[Rosebud]

So it's okay to scam people out of the full experience they were PROMISED because tickets are cheaper?

I can almost guarantee more was cut from the interminable IT book in the new movies than will be cut from FF7 in the expanded FF7R games.

Click to shrink...

IT movie is a complete story. The book has 2 separate storylines (children and adults), they did one at a time. And I wouldn't mind if it was called "IT: Part 1".

And than god they cutted some stuff from the books, or the director would be in jail lol

 

[HardRojo]

Just because it isn't following the exact blueprint of the original game doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a lesser experience.

Click to shrink...

This is a completely different argument that virtually no one is making. In fact pretty much everyone agrees it's going to be worthy of the full price tag due to the full game experience. However that isn't the point of this thread.

 

[Altera]

I don't think people are assuming TLOU Part 2 won;t have the content of a full game.

If that's what they're worried about then they have the marketing to eliminate the misconceptions.

Click to shrink...

That's not the same situation.

And they don't have to create marketing to eliminate the misconception about that if they don't create it with that "Part 1" on the box to begin with.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

It's not, though. It's four hours of a 35-hour game.

Click to shrink...

Four hours that contains 30% of the whole story. The other 70% is only that long because it's padded with non-story-critical exploration and optional contents, which the Midgar section didn't really have much of.

 

[V_Arnold]

I'm glad that the votes reflect reality.

Cities are hard to make, Square devs said way back, we all laughed.
Now, they are creating a REMAKE centered on a single location, and because yeah, cities take a lot of resources to model, now we will have some fillers inside that. Do not be mistaken, these activities will be fillers.

I mean for god's sake, this is an rpg. With its focus on story. A story that consists of arc. This is not a Two-parter film (that is a regular occurence every now and then, see. Matrix, Kill Bill, Avengers Endgame.)

This film would be the equivalent of having two hours before haering the news that Zion is going to be attacked by machines.So many interesting side quests!

Seriously, do not eat this up, folks. be critical. This game will be a full-priced product. Production alone does not earn that price.

 

[MatrixMan.exe]

I recall there being a lot of confusion around this past E3. Weird statements from Square like "3 Blu-ray disks worth of content" or whatever it was and even on here plenty of people were asking if the game was still episodic. At best, they've been very unclear.

Click to shrink...

The episodic delivery of the remake has been communicated consistently in communications from SE. I do agree that there's a lot of unanswered questions about just how many parts this will be and how far it will go into the original game, but the fact that this isn't a full remake of FVII hasn't been something they've shy'd away from or tried to hide.

Edit: Well, at least until this boxart was revealed. THAT, I will say is misleading.

 

[Odeko]

Just like the Hobbit. And we all saw how well that went.

Click to shrink...

Oh believe me, I'm definitely not fully sold on the concept of expanding it so much. I loved Deathly Hallows but the Hobbit was horrific so I'm wary of how this will turn out.

But it's also definitely not a scam if the game is still a fully featured JRPG based on FF7.

 

[Mars People]

This whole arguement is stupid.

The game is called FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE on the damn box.
The damn box.

Its not called Final Fantasy VII Part 1.
Its not called Final Fantasy VII Chapter 1
Its not even called Final Fantasy VII : Midgar

It is deceptive and it is confusing to somebody not in the know.
It might not be intentially deceptive but it is.

Why can't people wrap their heads round this?

 

[MillionIII]

None of which changes anything. The two part series exists. FFVII always had a story contained in one game, not several.

Click to shrink...

The world of FF7 was never a single game

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Four hours that contains 30% of the whole story. The other 70% is only that long because it's padded with non-story-critical exploration and optional contents.

Click to shrink...

And? That stuff is the meat of the game. Just because Midgar has a lot of text doesn't mean it's worth dragging out forever and delaying some of the game's best moments by five to ten more years.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Also. SE haven't been clear on the game being episodic in the only medium that actually matters, the trailers. Like the general populace does not give a fuck about developer/producer interviews or read them. I browse era constantly and I dont read them. If they were being truly tranparent that would be made clear in the trailers.

We dont even know how many parts it will be total and some of you are acting like the transparency of the project is clear.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

It's not like they hid the fact that this isn't going to cover the entire story..

 

[kurahador]

None of which changes anything. The two part series exists. FFVII always had a story contained in one game, not several.

Click to shrink...

Here's the difference between FF7 Remake and IT movies/Infinity War-Endgame:
- the developer/director acknowledge it's only the first part before release.

 

[Servbot24]

Putting a "Part I" on the box seems like the least controversial suggestion ever, yet here we are at 15 pages.

It's not like they hid the fact that this isn't going to cover the entire story..

Click to shrink...

Most consumers do not read gaming news.

 

[KartuneDX]

What if the disc included just says Disc One?

 

[Sanka]

Most major FF fans interested in this game will know it's one part of many, especially once it's close to release. The rest won't care whatsoever.

 

[JuanLatino]

from a marketing perspective i think adding a Part 1 could harm the sales of the game.

it's harder to convince people (especially those that are not FF7 Fans or don't know the game) to buy your title if it already give them the feeling that they won't get the full experience with this 60 Dollar Game or have to invest into the first of many titles.
It's also harder to translate to people that this is gonna be a full AAA standalone RPG Game if it has a Part 1 in it.

Look at God of War - its obvious that is the first game of many and the story is not ending with that game - but they would never put a Part 1 on the package

Now i know that there is a significant difference between God of War and a Remake - but still, this is not as easy as some of you think.

Atleast from a business perspective i get where Square Enix is coming from

 

[diakyu]

Yeah I was surprised when there was no indication that it wasn't the entirety of VII.

 

[Danzflor]

This isn't an episodic game. At least not in the sense that it is understood in gaming industry.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I get it, it's a story divided into any sequels. But it doesn't stop it from being the first episode in the story.

The thing is, who gives a shit about how long it is? The story, the most important part of an RPG, is incomplete. It's basically walking away at the beginning of the prologue.

Click to shrink...

Seems like a lot of people on this thread don't give a shit about the story, but hey, at least they get a full game? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ground Zeroes wasn't listed as Part 1 of MGS5. This is PSF gaslighting at his purest.

Click to shrink...

Nope, Ground Zeroes was specifically marketed as a Prologue and just as a "small taste" of what the full game had to offer. While we could discuss for hours about the naming and pricing, at least Konami didn't sold nor marketed you Ground Zeroes as a fully fledge 60 bucks title.

 

[APZonerunner]

Kind of disingenuous to suggest it's only "one tenth" of the story, lol. We have no idea how things have been reimagined, what's changed, and how things will change going forward. There was a lot of filler in FFVII, so a lot of that might be streamlined, or even removed full stop. A lot of judgements being made int he article that are entirely based on assumptions, which is effectively: click bait.

C'mon Jason. Do better.

Click to shrink...

I don't know what's hard to understand about this. Let's break it down for a second: let's say Midgar makes up a sixth of the story of the original FF7, right? If this only contains Midgar, it contains one sixth of the original story. It will also contain a lot of all new story that has been added to pad out the offering; but it will always only contain one tenth of the original narrative nineties players are familiar with.

Like agree or disagree with Jason's problem - fine - but that is pretty much a fact? What they add, change, remove or streamline can and will make the difference for better or for worse in terms of the quality of this package and its sequels, but this game will still only be the Midgar part of the original story, which is only a slice of the original game & story.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

Somewhere along the line Square Enix made a judgment call that most people won't care.

Click to shrink...

Or that a good amount of people will get fooled. I know I for sure lost a ton of interest when I found out the game was going to be released in segments, and with that cover, and that title so many people that don't visit gaming sites frequently will be fooled. SE knows this, and there are no rules to prevent this so they go for it. By the time an unaware player get to that end and it's game over it'll be too late for them to return it anyway.

 

[Altair]

The world of FF7 was never a single game

Click to shrink...

Nobody's talking about the world of FF7. We're talking about the full story in the original game. This remake is only providing a quarter of that story, which makes it misleading.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

Why can't people wrap their heads round this?

Click to shrink...

There are a lot of different kinds of remakes out there. It doesn't just mean "same thing but prettier visuals."

I don't know what's hard to understand about this. Let's break it down for a second: let's say Midgar makes up a sixth of the story of the original FF7, right? If this only contains Midgar, it contains one sixth of the original story. It will also contain a lot of all new story that has been added to pad out the offering; but it will always only contain one tenth of the original narrative nineties players are familiar with.

Like agree or disagree with Jason's problem - fine - but that is pretty much a fact? What they add, change, remove or streamline can and will make the difference for better or for worse in terms of the quality of this package and its sequels, but this game will still only be the Midgar part of the original story, which is only a slice of the original game & story.

Click to shrink...

You're misunderstanding. We do not know exactly where they plan to take the story. There could be tons of things they plan to change/add/eliminate, etc. We know the story in the context of the original, but this is not 1997's Final Fantasy.

 

[Odeko]

Here's the difference between FF7 Remake and IT movies/Infinity War-Endgame:
- the developer/director acknowledge it's only the first part before release.

Click to shrink...

... did you mean similarity? Or did I miss the Russo Brothers pretending Endgame didn't exist at some point

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

That is Sqare-Enix's headache not the consumers, they are making the game the least they can do is labeling them in a proper fashion.

Click to shrink...

Whats the "proper" name for the game that both explains that it isnt a 1:1 remake but also a full length 40+ hour JRPG and not just a 5 hour midgar section?