I think I also read somewhere that previous games were not balanced with XP share in mind, but Sw/Sh was?
I'm not sure where I read/heard this from....
I'm not sure where I read/heard this from....
I actually didn't mean to quote you too, it was still in the draft from earlier and didn't notice before I hit replyI never said it was a general sentiment. I explicitly said it was my own personal opinion. Don't lump me into another user's words to dismiss my concerns with the game.
Its still an enjoyable game but there is so many flaws that previous titles didn' t have that are apparent.Don't mistake the vocal online community to be the general populace. This was proven when Sword & Shield was so heavily maligned online but reviewed decently and is the best selling Pokémon game this side of the millennium. Its legs are bigger than a Pokémon game's have been, through word of mouth.
It's anecdotal, but so often I have seen people seen people say they avoided it due to the hate and people saying it's bad, but then jumped in and love it.
Engagement for Sword & Shield stuff is still ridiculously high
Na, there have been a myriad of improvements
That sounds like bs as SW/SH didn't have a single difficult encounter.I think I also read somewhere that previous games were not balanced with XP share in mind, but Sw/Sh was?
I'm not sure where I read/heard this from....
Yes, I was thinking of Ultra Sun, since that is the one I am playing now haha.You cannot turn off the EXP Share from Let's Go onwards, it's been a common complaint since Gen 6 that the new EXP Share often leaves your team overleveled and makes the main story too easy. You could turn it off in X/Y to US/UM for something more traditional that people find don't break the difficulty curve but that is no longer possible in LGPE and SwSh, giving people less options to play the games and makes the game too easy for many people.
So just anecdotally I'd say that is probably true. I played through Gen 2, using only my started pokemon, and at times I was 15-20 levels above the other trainer. Even with the exp share in SwSh, and mainly only using my starter, I found that I would usually only end up with a couple pokemon 5-10 levels higher. Might be different for the different gens but that was my experience with 2.I think I also read somewhere that previous games were not balanced with XP share in mind, but Sw/Sh was?
I'm not sure where I read/heard this from....
I think I also read somewhere that previous games were not balanced with XP share in mind, but Sw/Sh was?
I'm not sure where I read/heard this from....
So just anecdotally I'd say that is probably true. I played through Gen 2, using only my started pokemon, and at times I was 15-20 levels above the other trainer. Even with the exp share in SwSh, and mainly only using my starter, I found that I would usually only end up with a couple pokemon 5-10 levels higher. Might be different for the different gens but that was my experience with 2.
It absolutely should. One of the complaints around Gen IV was how easily you could go off the beaten path and become very lost. And BDSP is an absolutely fine way to experience Gen IV by the looks of it. Jury's out as to whether Platinum will end up being better, but as long as they preserve the complexity of the overworld, it should be good for what you are looking for.
That sounds like bs as SW/SH didn't have a single difficult encounter.
So just anecdotally I'd say that is probably true. I played through Gen 2, using only my started pokemon, and at times I was 15-20 levels above the other trainer. Even with the exp share in SwSh, and mainly only using my starter, I found that I would usually only end up with a couple pokemon 5-10 levels higher. Might be different for the different gens but that was my experience with 2.
Gen 7 is absolutely balanced with xp share on in mind, and people turning it off did to intentionally have a greater challenge. It was fine. Loved getting into Poni island and having some real tough spots for a change
Gen 8 isnt balanced by any sense. Its incredibly easy from the get-go and got so many mechanics that can break it into billion pieces that you actively need to avoid and not use and the only way to not overlevel the major fights you get through the story is to actively avoid fighting and playing the game
Not mad at all.I've learned my lesson to never post in a pokemon thread again.
I guess I mis-remembered this then.
Didn't mean to get everyone (more) mad in this thread...
I've learned my lesson to never post in a pokemon thread again.
I guess I mis-remembered this then.
Didn't mean to get everyone (more) mad in this thread...
Are you really surprised that by using only one pokemon you end up overleveled and is comparing it with using a bunch in the new games to say it was worse? Are you even arguing in good faith? Specially because gen 2 is notoriously stingy with xp and people complain of the opposite
Pokémon's difficulty has always been this low, we were just younger and so it felt harder.Yeah but the difficulty is so low now (even compared to Gen IV and V) also just give me trainers with more than three Pokémon.
Gen 8 is balanced too, but balanced around you not sitting and grinding raids in the Wild Areit's fine, the fires of the pokemon war will keep raging for several other reasons, you did no harm
and you probably heard what you heard about gen 7, Sun/Moon are definitely balanced with having it on
I actually didn't mean to quote you too, it was still in the draft from earlier and didn't notice before I hit reply
Jesus christ. I started with 'anecdotally'. I didn't try to hide that I used my starter almost exclusively in gen 2, and I said I did mostly the same in Gen 8
reviewed decently and is the best selling Pokémon game this side of the millennium.
Pokémon's difficulty has always been this low, we were just younger and so it felt harder.
There's a reason people have always set their own challenges to make it "difficult"
If that were true Let's Go would have sold much better than… worse than ORAS.Reviewed decently as one of the worst averages in the series for a while? and sales for Pokemon are meaningless to defend a game as any metric of quality. The Switch as a console has stuff like Ring Fit doing double million digits and a port of Mario Kart in like 40m. All you mostly have to do is slap a name on a switch box and it sells.
The game is one of the worst ones in the series, the reception to it is all over the place (Ive seen more people dislike it than liking it) so it is what it is.
The newer games aren't vastly easier. I feel like people think that the games are easier these days is because the exp share cuts out any required grinding from older games. I'm playing through hgss right now, and it feels more difficult because I am so underleveled. The longevity of certain routes and how each route has fight after fight is what feels like its harder.
13.57m for like the 4th return to Kanto in a non-traditional sorta Pokemon game? Thats like super good for it but doesnt make the game any better either.If that were true Let's Go would have sold much better than… worse than ORAS.
Unless you have only one pokemon at hand in gen 8, its not the same. the way exp share works and cant be turned off makes it completely different. if all that xp went to just the one pokemon you have, just like it was in gen 2, you would be far more overleveled in gen 8 (since it gives extra xp on top of the base xp you would normally get). And thats not even taking into account all the other things you can do to make the gap even bigger (using candies, camp bonuses, etcetera)
Its just not a good comparison at all. Gen 8 is "balanced" around you ignoring most of its features, items, not fighting too many fights and rotating your team constantly so you can keep an even level with everything else. That's hardly balancing anymore when it requires you to jump so many hoops and basically dont play your game.
Ita been easy for a long time, but I disagree that it's always been this easy.
Playing RBY on the VC around when they launched on the 3DS, and those games are very evidently a significant amount more challenging than anything from Pokémon in a longgg time. Both in level design and how much the game expects the player to be worn down between areas.
I've replayed the gen 3 games and they felt intensely harder.Pokémon's difficulty has always been this low, we were just younger and so it felt harder.
There's a reason people have always set their own challenges to make it "difficult"
Gen 8 is balanced too, but balanced around you not sitting and grinding raids in the Wild Are
You're seeing people in your echo chamber. I see a wide variety from across all spectrumsReviewed decently as one of the worst averages in the series for a while? and sales for Pokemon are meaningless to defend a game as any metric of quality. The Switch as a console has stuff like Ring Fit doing double million digits and a port of Mario Kart in like 40m. All you mostly have to do is slap a name on a switch box and it sells.
The game is one of the worst ones in the series, the reception to it is all over the place (Ive seen more people dislike it than liking it) so it is what it is.
Pokémon's difficulty has always been this low, we were just younger and so it felt harder.
There's a reason people have always set their own challenges to make it "difficult"
Solid points!Thats not "feeling its harder", that is being harder. Non linear routes, more attrition, more item management, more investment to make your pokemons stronger, less tools to ignore type disadvantages, less freebies that break the game, restricted access to the stronger moves and pokemon, everything is tied to difficulty. Pokemon was never hard, but it was never as easy as from the 3DS games onwards either, thats a disingenuous misdirection
Yeah I get that. However, Pokémon games have consistently been easy, just sometimes with a level spike which requires you to grind or struggle. That's not difficulty, that's poor game design. Heck, people say the games were more open. They weren't. Even places like Rock Tunnel, Mt. Moon, Viridian Forest etc. are pretty much a straight line, just with a couple of little offshoot areas to confuse you.One of the most consistently asked for things in pokemon is for a higher level difficulty. And outside of one time they had a harder difficulty level in Gen 5 (In one of the weirdest ways ever that it's it own thread discussion on a consistent basis) they haven't done much to make it trickier since then. So I see why it's mentioned a lot.
Games have been balanced to finish instead of pushing for challenge. Pretty much always have. There are some games that individually harder than others. But it's not a linear curve. I'd argue Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon is probably the hardest game in the series due to it's Totem Bosses and the absolute wall that is Ultra Necrozma (But only with the EXP Share Off, otherwise it's probably Platinum or Black and White that's the hardest game in the series).
Just be prepared for the tidal wave of responses of people saying they weren't always this easy because whilst you can super easily break the old games with X-Items all the way back in Gen 1, it's a lot easier to unintentionally do it in the more recent games with stuff like the EXP Share changes and the Affection Buffs that let you dodge moves you shouldn't dodge, shake off status ailments, survive lethal attacks and boost your EXP further.
I do consistently see Gen 6 get marked the most due to being the game with the new EXP Changes them throwing at you Mega Lucario and Mega Latias/Latios at you midway through the game, pokemon that can easily solo the games by themselves.
There's also stuff like just being able to see which moves will do Super Effective damage on the UI now, no issues with that in particular though, helps having to remember a chart, and there's still the discovery phase with new pokemon as well. Helps for pokemon with weird typings like Drapion.
Gonna be interesting to see how BDSP handles with difficulty. I'm still wanting to see what they do with the EXP Share in that game. Hopefully there's a setting to mirror how it worked in original Diamond and Pearl, because I've not been a major fan of the new EXP System for the mainline stories as it's often resulted in having an overleveled team that never really gets challenged.
Yeah I get that. However, Pokémon games have consistently been easy, just sometimes with a level spike which requires you to grind or struggle. That's not difficulty, that's poor game design.
Yeah you're constantly under level and… it's still so easy. I beat Red whose team is around lv 80 with a team that was barely lv 45Was it? All I remember is that by the time you get the 8th badge your Pokemon are barely level 36 😂
Gold & Silver have so many problems, and that is definitely one of themYeah you're constantly under level and… it's still so easy. I beat Red whose team is around lv 80 with a team that was barely lv 45
Despite the level curve I don't really mind it while actually playing, it's very relaxing. HGSS fixed everything else except the small selection of Pokémon available, so they're at the top of my favoritesGold & Silver have so many problems, and that is definitely one of them
It does seem like they're rethinking the basics, because of Legends. Obviously not everything will carry over in the future but the loop will have to be different to accommodate what sticksI think Sword/Shield streamlined things too much. The QoL updates are great for postgame, I love that I can create a PVP-ready Pokemon in like 10 minutes now. But for the main game it has flattened things too much. I'm someone who believes that there can be value in inconveniencing the player to a point, which is why I usually don't agree with a lot of the "improvements" to RPGs people propose on this forum, and Pokemon is a good example of that.
You can rotate your party on the fly, you have access to dozens of Pokemon through the Wild Area before Gym 1, you can see most wild encounters beforehand, letting you always slot in the Pokemon that best counters it, the escape rope is unlimited, (not that you'll ever need it) you can do raids and get access to strong TR moves right off the bat... it's like impossible for the game to ever put you in a fail state. It feels like playing Pokemon with hacks.
And while I don't think Pokemon was ever really "hard", it was built around that old Dragon Quest-like DNA of managing resources between checkpoints that I loved about this genre. Sword/Shield on the other hand, feels like it's almost uninterested in itself, like it just wants to hurry you to the credits so you can get to raiding and PVP.
That said I do like Sw/Sh--I have by far the most hours in the series on it and I'd probably put it in top half of the series in terms of enjoyability overall. But IMO if they're gonna streamline things to this degree I think they need to rethink the core game design.
Yeah I get that. However, Pokémon games have consistently been easy, just sometimes with a level spike which requires you to grind or struggle. That's not difficulty, that's poor game design. Heck, people say the games were more open. They weren't. Even places like Rock Tunnel, Mt. Moon, Viridian Forest etc. are pretty much a straight line, just with a couple of little offshoot areas to confuse you.
I also agree that USUM are the hardest in the series. If you hitwithout knowing it's coming or anything, then you will have a bad time the first time.Ultra Necrozma
Yeah I'm interested in seeing how Legends will feel. From what I've seen it's not personally the direction I'd like the series to go in, but at the very least it probably won't feel like it's at war with itself.It does seem like they're rethinking the basics, because of Legends. Obviously not everything will carry over in the future but the loop will have to be different to accommodate what sticks
Oh I'm totally with you here. Totem battles got brutalI actually don't really like it as a difficulty because it's just really a wall of stats to overcome. It has 4 different moves, if you are weak to one of them you are probably going to get fainted due to it. After that it's a battle of attrition.
I think Totem Lurantis is the right level of difficulty for the game and what the series should aim for. Just to review it.
It's probably going to start the match with Solar Blade, an insanely damaging move, and it has a Power Herb to show you instantly how strong it is so you know to be careful, it also teaches you the power of held items if you haven't been using them already. But it just gets it the one time, so you get a bit of a reprieve when it's charging it up... but then it's allies come in, and the allies can set up the sun. Allowing it to drop Solar Blade turn after turn on you. It even blocks statuses and gets better healing off synthesis. It shows the power of Sun and weather effects, but as you learn, Lurantis doesn't have the ability to set up the sun itself, so it tells you to prioritise taking out the support... but you can also use the sun to your advantage as well, Lurantis is grass type, so if you have a fire type, you can do more damage to it in the sun as well.
It's one of the best designed fights in the series just due to what it teaches you about the game, and the only let-down for it is with the EXP Share on you may just have a fire type like your Torracat one shot it with Max Flare before being able to see any part of it.
It's what I want to see key gym leader fights be like in pokemon, but Sw/Sh let me down on this front because outside of like, Maybe Raihan with his weather based gym done entirely in double matches, you don't get anything close to how cooly setup this is. In fact you have actively bad matches like Piers who seems to initially be based teaching you about abilities with bringing attention to them in his song lyrics, as he leads with a Scrafty that he says will Intimidate the opponent, which is does. But then he brings out Malamar and he tells you to watch out for it's Contrary Ability and has... no moves whatsoever that activate Contrary for it at all (It's the 7th gym, you can give it Superpower at this point to show off that cool interaction). Then he just tells you two moves the Skunktank has and tells you absolutely nothing about his Obstagoon. It doesn't flow anywhere near as well as the Lurantis does. Doesn't help that Spikemuth gym is one of the more plain gym designs in the series just being a single straight line that you fight goons in, and I get the beat-them-up theme they are going for, but why do you have regular Mr Mimes if you are later going to establish that Mr Mimes in Galar became more Ice LIke Tap Dancer... this is getting sidetracked at this point I feel, in brief, more stuff like Totem Lurantis, less stuff like Piers.
Pokémon games from hardest to easiest: (main story only)
Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon
Sun and Moon
Black 2 and White 2
Black and White
Diamond and Pearl
Emerald
Platinum
Sword and Shield
Ruby and Sapphire
Red and Blue
X and Y
Gold and Silver
More or less how I remember them. Didn't include remakes cause then it gets a bit complicated.
Gen 2 is so easy it's crazy
That's what I said. They always fix some things, but there are always things left to fix for the next generation.I mean they added skippable cutscenes, did things for tutorials where if Leon asks you if you know how to catch Pokémon and you say yes, it's done. These are things people asked for.
People asked for things to boost IVs with Bottle Caps. People asked for Ability Capsules/Patches
Just because they didn't add/fixed what you wanted doesn't mean they don't fix things people ask for, because they do...a lot.