Is the 2020 election the last chance for American democracy?

[Darren Lamb]

I don't think it'd be the end of democracy, but it would be a bleak period of minority rule and would further damage to our reputation, as well as cause irreversible damage to our climate. And maybe the end of the US as the sole superpower. But I don't think it means we could never get back (or get to) a system where the wills of the majority would be reflected again. We'd just need to get the guillotines out

 

[Necromanti]

I wouldn't call a corporatocracy a true democracy. Even then, almost half the country would probably vote to dismantle the country and its institutions, anyway. Having said that, things can always get worse (and will keep on doing so until people are willing to fight).

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

American Democracy started to die when Ronald Reagan introduce Neoliberalism in the 1980s.
That was the point where the course was set towards a power structure when a small elite owns most of the countries wealth and gets to make most the crucial political decisions for the country.

Quickly this financial elite bought politicians and media outlets to push narratives justifying their own interests as national policy.

If we looked at the rise in GDP and real wages, we saw similar trajectories until the 80s. After Reagans reforms GDP continued to rise while real wages stagnated.
The discrepancy between the two trajectories represents trillions of dollars. This money made the new ruling class of the United States.
Today, 40 years later, the US has long been declared an Oligarchy by most serious pol. sci. institutions.

The reality of this disenfranchisement of the middle class obviously impacts people, but they didn't know what was going wrong, which made them susceptible to demagogues.
Before Trump, the US had two neoliberal parties taking turns not changing anything and not daring to challenge the new system that had secretly been introduced to the US by Reagan.

But Trump is a straight-up fascist now, so it's a new level of bad.
The US is now in need of a revolution. A vote won't do.
Biden won't change anything and the next generation of fascists will be ready in 2024. They will likely be much more competent than Trump is and competence is really not a trait you'd like to see in a fascist.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

No.

 

[Deleted member 2699]

The US is already a failed state. This election is about who gets to be the captain of the Titanic.

 

[BlueGeezer]

How about no only the last chance to be in its current form without a revolution. If trump gets in again then I would imagine there would be some form of uprising leading to change (good or bad who knows).

 

[Orayn]

Can't lose what you never had.

 

[Ramsay]

If we're not at the tipping point already, then we're very close to it.

 

[Good4Squat]

America has needed major reforms since forever, Trump didn't change that, he just made it even more abdsurdly obvious.

 

[tabris]

America is a Corporatocracy. Trump is a symptom of that.

 

[Strike]

We're definitely at a crossroads here. Once the courts go, that's probably it. At least for our lifetime.

 

[eyeball_kid]

America is a Corporatocracy. Trump is a symptom of that.

Click to shrink...

I disagree. We've had a corporatocracy for decades. Corporations want stability and a compliant populace in order to maximize profit. Trump only provides chaos and rage.

Trump started with Newt Gingrich in the '90s. Trump is a symptom of over 20 years of straight-up GOP propaganda and hate speech masquerading as news on Fox. Trump is a symptom of the dumbing down over decades of our school system curriculums. Of extreme gerrymandering. Trump is a symptom of a populace and a news media that no longer cares or is informed enough to be a check against tyranny and foreign subversion. The GOP machine has weaponized their constituents against America itself.

 

[Version 3.0]

If Trump wins, it will be because he successfully managed to keep millions of votes from being counted. And most likely then was vindicated by the Supreme Court. That will provide a blueprint for the GOP to repeat in the future. So, yes, democracy is literally at stake.

I'd like to point out that this "cheat to win, then make cheating legal" strategy is hardly new to the GOP, or Trump. But the number of votes that are not counted is going to be higher than ever before, guaranteed, win or lose.

And then something has to be done about this shit. The GOP can not be allowed to continue stopping people from voting, or stopping votes from counting.

 

[III-V]

Trump will disassemble the democracy if he wins. I have no doubts.

 

[TaySan]

If he wins again we are probably done for our lifetime. They will have the supreme court on lock.

 

[Drakeon]

GOP is way off the rails as always and the Democrats are starting to get more cozy with voter suppression so it is pretty much dead regardless

Click to shrink...

This is fucking nonsense. Primary rules and preventing people from voting in a GE are not at all equitable.

 

[Version 3.0]

Democrats do it too. They are just more sneaky about it and want to do it in the primary rather than the general election like the GOP. You have state parties purging registered voters, having incredible rules for switching party allegiance (like having to do it a ridiculous amount of time before the actual primary), and having multiple primaries that all go toward the same general election. All of this stuff leads to people being unable to vote in a primary election or to fewer people participating in the process.

The GOP tactics are super obvious and blatant with ridiculous voter ID stuff, the poll tax for felons in Florida, and closing of polling places, but to say that only one party engages in this practice or that I need to be quiet for bringing it up is not great.

Click to shrink...

Parties are organizations, not governments. They are allowed to have their own rules. That is not remotely the same thing as the GOP does. That is some seriously flawed "both sides" bullshit.

Of course, in a country with only two viable parties, yes, it is still problematic. But it is not the same.

 

[Gpsych]

Even if Trump wins, it's not going to be fascism/authoritarianism in the way that most people think. We're probably not looking at old school Soviet Union tanks driving down the street or Hitler-esque military ceremonies as a precursor to invasion of our neighbors. It's more a cyberpunk-style authoritarian world where wealth corporatists can essentially do whatever they want to the extent that "government" is just another arm of the rich. The authoritarianism aspect will come from the rich who will have everything. In essence, it will look more like a neofeudal corporate future in my opinion.

 

[Icolin]

wish i could've voted for "American democracy has been dead a long time. Trump is just the inevitable conclusion" and "No, we are headed towards fascism sooner or later. Biden is only a stopgap", because both are true

 

[Gigglepoo]

I think you could make a pretty strong case that democracy never really "worked" in america in the first place

Click to shrink...

Our country was designed from the onset for elites to rule over the working class and that divide has only become more severe as the disparity between the haves and the have nots has grown.

 

[Deleted member 4346]

Trump is the inevitable conclusion. Both parties went in on the crony capitalism, both parties allowed the American worker to drown without throwing them a life jacket, and both parties have sadly leaned in on the racism or racism apologia. This is what America is, at its core, Donald Trump is just the mask off version, the one that lacks the veneer of civility.

I think you could make a pretty strong case that democracy never really "worked" in america in the first place

Click to shrink...

It certainly hasn't worked for everyone, not ever.

 

[squeakywheel]

Trump has shown that sycophants in Congress and the Courts can absolutely enable tyranny in the good ol' US of A. The founders did not anticipate this level of corruption and all the gentleman's agreements stuff have to be enabled in the Constitution by law. Executive orders have to be curbed (maybe max 5 a term or something so they have to use it only when necessary). Imagine if there was a corrupt GOP candidate this brazen but smart enough to hide and much more charismatic. Trump has shown the US is not above a dictatorship given the right swampy mix of Party over country.

 

[John Rabbit]

All of these options basically rely on a binary understanding of how democracies and government work.

Last chance? Like forever? No.
Are we in for a real fucking shitshow of a time for the forseeable future if he wins? Absolutely.
Has American "democracy" basically been an oligarchy stoking the flames of whatever cultural touchpoints maxmizes their profits (and thus control)? 100% yes.
Is there any reason to hope for a more just and equitable future? 100% yes.

There's not like a definitive answer to this.

 

[Soda]

I need a "No, even if facism rises now it will not necessarily hold it forever."

Basically, what John Rabbit said.

 

[Holundrian]

If you can't win 2020 you guys are done for(as in if the last 4 years weren't enough to make you win over the lunatics what will be?) like the real question is if you win can you prevent a smarter trump from taking 2024, 2028, 2032 or are you going to forget and let the scum of the earth reign again. Also don't forget about taking congress it's not just about the presidency.

 

[Fisty]

We are fucked if he gets re-elected. No chance of recovery.

If Biden wins, we stave it off for 4 more years and hope to god either the battered GOP re-discover some semblance of American values or they never win another election.

Our position in the world is assuredly ruined though, no matter what. And I don't see Biden slashing executive power.

 

[bluexy]

Trump won in 2016 due to massive voter suppression and propaganda efforts. He's in an even worse position in 2020 and is redoubling his efforts, nevermind having staggering more power to suppress the vote. It's difficult to imagine a scenario where Trump wins a second term in such a manner, let alone what that means he's done to our electoral process in order to win. From there, who could trust Trump would then step down after his second term and things go back to "normal?" All evidence points to Republicans embracing this corruption of our Democracy and working to further it in their own favor. It would get worse, not better.

I want to believe that the USA could push through Trump winning a second term. That our state election structure would enable Democrats to retake the Senate so as to check Trump or further Republican presidential nominees' power regardless of Republican federal-level corruption. But I don't have faith in that. This feels like a last effort. Or worse, like we've already failed our last effort and just don't fully realize it yet. If not for 2018 I'd have little faith in our national-level election process.

 

[Haze]

genuinely rules how it's august and we still have this tier of take

Click to shrink...

What does this even mean. Does the policy history of candidates not matter? Does the current state of the party they are heading not matter?

The platform that Biden is running on is still a neoliberal platform and what has his campaign done to inspire confidence that they will adhere to their progressive platitudes other than championing Bernie's political corpse? Give more of a platform to Republicans than actual progressives at the DNC? Fucking LOL

The idea that simply voting Trump away will solve the problems that lead to his ascension are incredibly naive. The American political and electoral system birthed Trump as a result of its institutions. He is not an anomaly.

And he will not be the last.

Kind of delusional to think that America was perfect until Trump getting elected spun things out of control.

If anything it just brought to the surface things a lot of folks already knew.

Click to shrink...

No, you see everything was fine until Trump took office. All we need to do is get rid of the big orange man and prosperity will be restored.

 

[fontguy]

I voted for the first option, but I hate the term "Trumpism." He is not unique, and he is not separate from the Republican Party. He is just its next natural evolutionary step.

And really, this administration has made all too clear just how broken our institutions are. We are staring vast systemic failures of design in the face, and winning this election doesn't even begin to fix it. It is only the first step of many. I don't see how even a congress full of the smoothest, most brilliant political operators could unfuck all this in 8 years, even if they wanted to. This is why it's so important that things like DC statehood and making election day a federal holiday need to happen the very moment it is within the Democrats' power.

This is our last out, we're down by six, and nobody's on base.

 

[Kompis]

Hasnt it been known for a long time that the US is not a Democracy?

Corporate interests and economic elites controls Government policy, while average citizens has hardly any influence at all.
Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

 

[Midnight Jon]

The platform that Biden is running on is still a neoliberal platform and what has his campaign done to inspire confidence that they will adhere to their progressive platitudes other than championing Bernie's political corpse? Give more of a platform to Republicans than actual progressives at the DNC? Fucking LOL

Click to shrink...

if you don't get why i'm mocking your takes after this post where i snip-quote the part of this post where you're cribbing from this site's wing of people who got approximately every major take of the year (and frankly the last 5) dead wrong, you're going to have a hard time getting much of anything

 

[Lord Moriarty007]

Hate to say this, but I'm from the history field, but American has never been a democracy. Its constitution republic. U.S Constitution is the rule of law in the United States.

 

[Ogodei]

Democrats do it too. They are just more sneaky about it and want to do it in the primary rather than the general election like the GOP. You have state parties purging registered voters, having incredible rules for switching party allegiance (like having to do it a ridiculous amount of time before the actual primary), and having multiple primaries that all go toward the same general election. All of this stuff leads to people being unable to vote in a primary election or to fewer people participating in the process.

The GOP tactics are super obvious and blatant with ridiculous voter ID stuff, the poll tax for felons in Florida, and closing of polling places, but to say that only one party engages in this practice or that I need to be quiet for bringing it up is not great.

Click to shrink...

Yes, machine politics in some blue states are kind of shitty, but the two are in no way equivalent.

 

[FreezePeach]

Everyone needs to vote against Trump. If you dont you are responsible for the disastrous future you and everyone else will live through.

 

[Kthulhu]

Nothing is set in stone. Trump winning would suck but things can only get worse if we collectively let it happen.

 

[UnluckyKate]

America needs a severe reboot of all its political rules to last...

 

[Midnight Jon]

Hate to say this but I'm from the history field, but American has never been a democracy. Its constitution republic.

Click to shrink...

i'm from the poli sci field, it's a constitutional republic with a democratic system of government

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Some of you all seem very comfortable with the idea of continuing down this path we're on.

No, we're not all gonna be okay if Trump wins again and is defeated in 2024.

 

[N0xtis]

Well if Trump wins then it's KO for American democracy; however, even if Biden wins that is not the end of our journey towards fascism. Trump-ism, the GOP, QANON, fox news, etc. will still be here after. So, a Biden win is only going to stall it's momentum. I think we will be on the edge of one Republican president from fascism unfortunately for some time.

In order to avoid that, a Biden administration is going to have to work its ass off and keep democrats in control of congress. Assuming, dems also get control of the senate.

 

[smurfx]

republicans are only going to get more bold from here on out. the only chance we got is if we vote them out before they can rig the vote.

 

[Bio]

We have not been a democracy in a long long time. Almost since I was born, and I am pretty old

Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

What in the World: A new report finds that an elite few dominate US policy, the human error behind South Korea's ferry tragedy, and Algeria's uneasy status quo election.

www.bbc.com

 

[Haze]

if you don't get why i'm mocking your takes after this post where i snip-quote the part of this post where you're cribbing from this site's wing of people who got approximately every major take of the year (and frankly the last 5) dead wrong, you're going to have a hard time getting much of anything

Click to shrink...

ah yes I too love not making arguments

 

[maximumzero]

A shocking number of folks think that democrats, "the left", "Antifa", Black Lives Matter, and all affiliated parties are the true fascists and if Biden wins this year that democracy is truly over for this country.

So yeah, no matter what "side" of this you're on November 3rd could be a great or miserable day.

 

[julia crawford]

Perhaps in a couple decades things will be good again.

 

[Theworld]

It's more a cyberpunk-style authoritarian world where wealth corporatists can essentially do whatever they want to the extent that "government" is just another arm of the rich. The authoritarianism aspect will come from the rich who will have everything.

Click to shrink...

The rich already have everything. The population was left with just enough to not go in the streets and riots. It worked for some decades and it clearly doesn't work anymore, as we can see with what's happening in the world.

You're already living in that dystopian future you're describing.

A shocking number of folks think that democrats, "the left", "Antifa", Black Lives Matter, and all affiliated parties are the true fascists and if Biden wins this year that democracy is truly over for this country.

So yeah, no matter what "side" of this you're on November 3rd could be a great or miserable day.

Click to shrink...

Except Biden never crossed all the lines Trump did when he was VP, as far as politic go at least. The duo Obama/Biden never turned the US upside-down afaik, Obama always had unity of the population at heart. Regardless of whose side your on, it's hard to deny something is very, very wrong with the way Trump is managing the country.

 

[Gpsych]

The rich already have everything. The population was left with just enough to not go in the streets and riots. It worked for some decades and it clearly doesn't work anymore, as we can see with what's happening in the world.

You're already living in that dystopian future you're describing.

Click to shrink...

That's the part that will be different. They won't even leave the scraps anymore. There will only be the ultra-rich and the extremely poor.

 

[Haze]

A shocking number of folks think that democrats, "the left", "Antifa", Black Lives Matter, and all affiliated parties are the true fascists and if Biden wins this year that democracy is truly over for this country.

So yeah, no matter what "side" of this you're on November 3rd could be a great or miserable day.

Click to shrink...

Because people think violence = fascism not understanding that politics is nothing but the application of violence.

Perhaps in a couple decades things will be good again.

Click to shrink...

When were things ever good? I don't understand the rose tinted glasses for life before 2016.

 

[Encephalon]

Some people never miss a chance to discourage people from voting even in a thread made in the context of scheme to discount votes.

 

[Lord Fanny]

Democracies become dictatorships on a fairly regular basis when you look through history. It is just an inevitability, I think.

 

[legend166]

Half your country doesn't even vote.