I really wish this argument would end. No one is making anything resembling a convincing argument in one way or the other and it's barely related to the OP.
Is it just me, or are the advantages of PC gaming diminishing?
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I really wish this argument would end. No one is making anything resembling a convincing argument in one way or the other and it's barely related to the OP.
Title: Are the advantages of PC gaming diminishing?
ITT: PC has low metacritic scores and less than perfect controller support.
ITT: PC has low metacritic scores and less than perfect controller support.
Artifact was on mobile iirc ? (Or planned for mobile).
If they make a game exclusive, it's because of constraints (gameplay, hardware) not because of choice.
That is why I pointed that bringing GOTY awards/Metacritc to how console gaming is better is not na argument? :)
Because you can't understand(or you didn't read) my argument in the first place. I can't write the same things again. So I thought that sarcasm may help but...
Return of the Obra Dinn.
Game of the Year awards don't mean a whole lot when most of the gaming press is console-focused or doesn't really pay attention to PC exclusives. There have been many games which did not get attention by the press until they got a console release much later.
Just going to re-quote what GhostTrick said, because it's completely correct:
AAA games exist on PC. A lot of them, actually. They just aren't exclusives. However, these games have the potential to perform infinitely better than their console counterparts and aren't locked to generational hardware, meaning no paying for pointless remasters in a few years.
Really good game. Good point.
It had some awards. In fact, Return of the Obra Dinn got attention. I will play it on ps4(if I can wait).
Metacritic recognize its value btw along with the awards.
And no, I will not say that metacritic is pc-centric to downplay the game. This is bullshit.
The only thing I agree with is the ''attention'', not the ''bias'' nonsense.
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The fucks given about 30fps tells everything about "low standards". That's why GOTY/metacritic/opinions doesn't matter a single bit.
Read above ;). The thread is not about opinions.
Yeah cheers for the feedback, Just confused as such as was reading people not playing at 4K and choosing 1440p, Then about HDR not being utilised properly, So as someone that would literally only hook the PC upto the OLED i'm just gauging how to go about it the best way.
That's why i said about Pro/XBX outputting 4K/HDR but at mid-high settings and 30fps. I just want my TV used as it should be, Seems it's all good then. Seeing vids from GN/JayZ from Ryzen CPU's yesterday showed 4K really well if i'm aiming for 4K/60. Like you say hopefully HDR gets better aswell since it's much better when it's used. SDR proper flat looking in comparison.
Not a chance. Being able to play any game at 144fps, free online, games definitely are still cheaper especially near launch, modding and cheats. PC gaming is still leagues above console imo. Even if I lost everything and only the framerate advantage stayed it would still be worth it to me
Divinity: Original Sin II was robbed in 2017 (PC release) and 2018 (console release).
The industry better not overlook OS III when it releases!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I read your posts afterwards and I have no idea what your point is.
Anyway, carry on.
OS 2 is the best RPG of the generation and was undoubtedly the best game of 2017.
Eh, the problem with "GOTY material" when qualified outside someone's personal opinion to a poll, is that it boils down to a rigged popularity contest of the few games that got played by a massive audience that only need to be pretty decent.
Those games are usually high production value, with large budgets to market them, and can reach outside the hardcore market. Mid-sized to smaller games, even if they offer more fluid design, a better story and more innovation...won't win because they'll have been seen by less people, and the people that play those lesser known games on average will have played more games that year splitting their potential vote. Then there are the people that equate production values with quality, and will judge games with weaker production values as overall weaker experiences.
The discussion of exclusives on PC brings up the subject of what people really mean when they mean "exclusive".
What a lot of people actually mean are big-budget exclusives that get big marketing campaigns, and are usually first or third-persion action games. PC still has the most exclusives, it's just that most of them fall out of that narrow designation, which sort of makes them invisible to most gamers, regardless of how good these games actually are.
All the strategy games, sim games, CRPGs, and adventure games sort of occupy a different world, aren't as high-budget most of the time, and aren't marketed as aggressively, but are honestly probably still just as valuable in terms of gameplay time as games like God of War or Smash Bros. And most of these PC exclusives don't need expensive GPUs to run. On one hand that makes them look less attractive to people who just play AAA games, but on the other hand that sort of makes them more accessible to anyone who owns a computer.
People just say PC doesn't have attractive exclusives anymore because you no longer need one to play flashy games like Crysis, The Witcher, Half-Life, Battlefield, or Civilization. Ironically though, two of my favorite PC exclusives right now are Arma 3 and Space Engine -- two very technologically ambitious games.
Yep. When I actually sat down and thought about it, I realized my favorite game last year was Obra Dinn.
What a lot of people actually mean are big-budget exclusives that get big marketing campaigns, and are usually first or third-persion action games. PC still has the most exclusives, it's just that most of them fall out of that narrow designation, which sort of makes them invisible to most gamers, regardless of how good these games actually are.
All the strategy games, sim games, CRPGs, and adventure games sort of occupy a different world, aren't as high-budget most of the time, and aren't marketed as aggressively, but are honestly probably still just as valuable in terms of gameplay time as games like God of War or Smash Bros. And most of these PC exclusives don't need expensive GPUs to run. On one hand that makes them look less attractive to people who just play AAA games, but on the other hand that sort of makes them more accessible to anyone who owns a computer.
People just say PC doesn't have attractive exclusives anymore because you no longer need one to play flashy games like Crysis, The Witcher, Half-Life, Battlefield, or Civilization. Ironically though, two of my favorite PC exclusives right now are Arma 3 and Space Engine -- two very technologically ambitious games.
Yep. When I actually sat down and thought about it, I realized my favorite game last year was Obra Dinn.
Nah PC still feels like king to me despite how much I like the X and Gamepass. Moddability may be down overall on big pub releases but its still bountiful for lots of other things like PCVR and old school mod scenes like Doom are still as active as ever, some of the VR conversions are absolutely brilliant like Brutal Doom, and I can stream it wirelessly with minimal quality loss to my Oculus Quest. Call me when consoles let you do that (yes yes I'm sure PSVR2 will support this and what a glorious day that will be, but VR-ified games from the mod scene it most certainly will not have). There's also itch.io and you know closed consoles will never have support for something with so much free content to distract from the regular internal digital marketplaces.
One thing GP has over PC and this is kinda moot point now anyhow seeing as GP is on PC now, is supplying a bunch of indies to a much larger audience that would otherwise miss out on them. Glancing at the full list of titles available on the PC side of GP its missing one of the best however, Outer Wilds. We'll have to see how consistent the curation will be between the two as next gen nears.
You say prices aren't as good with region locking for keys and I'd partly agree on that end based on a recent experience where I had to get a refund on a globally labeled key that turned out to be region locked (first time I'd encountered this) but there's still way more options for lower prices when you have search sites like isthereanydeal.com to help you find the best price.
Yet another boon for PC is there's far more early access titles available than on console, and I don't see that stopping anytime soon considering the stricter curation process the console manufacturers enforce on such things. Yes there's some EA titles out there on console but its typically once they're in beta states from what I've seen.
The flexibility just feels so much broader on PC, perhaps the new boxes coming out in a year or so will make that gap feel smaller but until then PC will probably be my primary driver sans exclusives and GP console only releases.
One thing GP has over PC and this is kinda moot point now anyhow seeing as GP is on PC now, is supplying a bunch of indies to a much larger audience that would otherwise miss out on them. Glancing at the full list of titles available on the PC side of GP its missing one of the best however, Outer Wilds. We'll have to see how consistent the curation will be between the two as next gen nears.
You say prices aren't as good with region locking for keys and I'd partly agree on that end based on a recent experience where I had to get a refund on a globally labeled key that turned out to be region locked (first time I'd encountered this) but there's still way more options for lower prices when you have search sites like isthereanydeal.com to help you find the best price.
Yet another boon for PC is there's far more early access titles available than on console, and I don't see that stopping anytime soon considering the stricter curation process the console manufacturers enforce on such things. Yes there's some EA titles out there on console but its typically once they're in beta states from what I've seen.
The flexibility just feels so much broader on PC, perhaps the new boxes coming out in a year or so will make that gap feel smaller but until then PC will probably be my primary driver sans exclusives and GP console only releases.
My first post was about GOTY awards as an argument for console gaming >>> PC gaming.
Best combat, Nyquil-tier story. I don't think I've cared less about a game's world or plot in a decade(maybe Homefront). Well, 2nd best combat to Transistor(fite me).
The mention of HDR reminded me of something else whack on PC: Why no HDMI-CEC support? When I turn on my PS4, my TV automatically turns on, powers on my AV receiver, and sets everything to the correct input. When I turn on my PC... nothing happens, and I have to set all the inputs manually.
CEC could be amazing on PC with a lot of scripting options for controlling my home entertainment system. The only way I'm aware to do it is this thing, which probably breaks 4K/HDR anyway:
CEC could be amazing on PC with a lot of scripting options for controlling my home entertainment system. The only way I'm aware to do it is this thing, which probably breaks 4K/HDR anyway:
Well, uh, compared to the game that won most of 2017's GOTY awards, I think the story was probably still good enough to win.
Maybe these standards are the ok standards for them. Do you even think about it?
For example, imo, you are the one who has low standards about games(see the previous comparison).
Thats life.
No, everthing it is about opinions. If you don't like citizen kane it's ok. If you can't recognise it as a materpiece...is a different thing. It is a masterpiece hands down. You can hate it though :)
As a developer I'm pretty much tied to the Mac ecosystem, and the sheer frustration and potential undiscovered bugs of getting gaming to work with a GPU on a Mac caused me to give up trying to game on a desktop.
Which I realized is actually perfectly fine unless you need 4k60fps or 1440p144fps, which I do not. I originally started gaming on the PC a decade ago when many games and sales were PC only: the gaming market is at a place now where the game selection and prices between consoles and PCs are similar. There isn't anything on a PC/Mac I'm missing that I can't get on my PS4 Pro (or even a mobile device!).
Which I realized is actually perfectly fine unless you need 4k60fps or 1440p144fps, which I do not. I originally started gaming on the PC a decade ago when many games and sales were PC only: the gaming market is at a place now where the game selection and prices between consoles and PCs are similar. There isn't anything on a PC/Mac I'm missing that I can't get on my PS4 Pro (or even a mobile device!).
Playing games on PC is better than it has ever been. Options, performance, huuuge library that "just works". Seamless, instant switching between browsing, playing and working. So far ahead of current consoles that it's funny just thinking about it. Hardware already beyond what the next batch of outdated consoles will have when they release - and be stuck with while the gap keeps getting wider - like this generation, even with the mid-gen refreshes.
I like consoles and use them for exclusives and not much else. PC is better in every way I can think of though.
I like consoles and use them for exclusives and not much else. PC is better in every way I can think of though.
Now that's a rebuttal I can't argue with! Divinity does shit on that game to me also.
My take is that a decent amount of advantages have transferred to consoles from PC, which can make it feel like the gap is lessening. While the PC has a bevy of exclusive features still, I think for most of those interested in casual gaming those are kind of niche. To me, consoles are never striving for parity with PC hardware, but they will cannibalize certain things that used to be exclusive to PC, and that this is enough to cause a shift from playing exclusively on PC to including or even preferring console options.
30fps shooters with dual sticks (RDR2) will never be masterpieces in a world with 240+Hz screens and mouse+kb gunplay. No matter how much people like it or buy it.
You I like you.
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Having a PC is cost prohibitive in Brazil and in a lot of low income countries, I'd have a PC if I could, but I'm not able to afford one... I know it's not exactly related to the thread, just wanted to point this out.
Between first party exclusives and pro consoles already going for high resolution, I could definitely see what I said being true, especially with stuff like dynamic resolution and checkerboarding being used more frequently on console, rather than just brute force on lots of PC games. I feel like pc players tend to play at 1080p with similarly powerful GPus (1060/580), whereas consoles go for strategic cuts to get most of the important stuff and keep resolution high.
Also there is those first party exclusives that tend to look better than most pc exclusives at the time.
I used to hear that the cost of consoles were prohibitively inflated in South America. Is that not true anymore?
Not really, Xbox is quite affordable and as much as Sony is a premium brande here, it's not that cost prohibitive. It's quite affordable to have a console in Brazil, for a PC, on the other hand, you'd have to pay 3+ times the asking price of a Xbox, which is not viable for most of the population.
Switches are fairly expensive since Nintendo is not officially in Brazil.
I'm not really seeing a change in the delta between a high-end PC and everything else, no. I guess now that Quest is out (which is a console/portable) it comes with some unique advantages that are genuinely exclusive to it, but that's easily offset by something like Index. For crusty old traditional gaming (I say that lovingly), the power gulf is still massive for me and plenty enough to offset any minor differences in convenience that may come up.
Not really an issue going into next gen with BC. However I still welcome those "pointless remasters" as you call them because some aren't just resolution bumps. Look at stuff like Call of Duty Remastered, Crash Bandicoot, Skryim Special Edition, Master Chief Collection.
HDR is imho finally where it needs to be these days. At least, I personally have zero issues on Windows 10 1903, with an appropriate SDR brightness set in windows. Finally it just works for me. Not sure if mileage varies based on monitor etc, but I no longer feel like I have to toggle it on and off all the time, and support is catching up (even if that's partly because support on consoles seems to be slowing down a bit :/)
This was a bug bear for me in the past to say the least.
braid was nominated and won some awards I think. In a period not indie friendly. Journey was also a low budget game and had some awards. Also we read above about Return of the Obra Dinn.
in my opinion, if a game is GOTY material we will learn about it. I don't buy conspirancy theories etc.
When pc gaming had AAA(for the time) exclusive gaming, critics were there to nominate and award pc exclusives. Now pc gaming for X reasons can't have these AAA games, so you don't see them in awards. It is as simple as that.
It is completely reasonable a big talented team which has money to spend, to have more possibilities for a big award.
Experimental indies are important and they can be brought excitement and wow, but it's difficult for them to succeed as GOTY contenders. This is not something bad for them.
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-So, why do you see so many people referencing playing at 1440p and not 4k?
A lot of PC players seem to feel framerate is king, and anything under 60fps is not worth playing. As such, they drop their resolutions. 1440p is a middle ground between 1080p and 4k, which many seem to be happy with as it gives them more than enough overheard to crank up all their settings and still hit 60fps (Or some people even go for 144fps). For me, I just try to aim for 4k/60. I do drop it down to 1440p though if a game cannot do that even if I'm moved my settings to medium, but simply because I also tend to prefer 60 fps too. (Vast majority of console games run at 30fps). You could always just stick with 30 fps though, and then resolution would rarely be a concern. 1440p is also a fairly popular monitor resolution, and some folks on PC don't want to hook their PCs up to anything but monitors (Their prerogative, but not actually a thing anyone needs to do). I PC game exclusively on my 4k TV.
-How does it compare to Pro/X?
I think the reality is, the Pro/X often aren't outputting 4k at mid-high settings. They often are upscaling to 4k from lower resolutions. And even when they are native 4k, they are only 30fps, which you could also do on PC, but many choose not to. But HDR definitely does have work to do on PC.
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Every console generation is hit or miss on whether BC will be supported. On PC it's always a guarantee that you own your games forever. If you bought Doom in 1994 you can still play it today on your modern machine.
Imo they can. Maybe you can't play well with dual sticks :p
It's just you. PC gaming still offers better and more options in all ways for ways to play games. Everyone has listed why, basically if there is a game that was on PC that happened, you CAN play it. You can't do that with a console. You also don't have to pay into some bullshit monthly fee.
What I have noticed is that MS knows that PC is the future and that offering what they have to PC and their console is the way to go today. Sony's support has been just crossplay with PC games but eventually all their games will be PC as well.
Imagine a chex quest cereal box exclusive game was console only. You wouldn't hear about it now or play it.
What I have noticed is that MS knows that PC is the future and that offering what they have to PC and their console is the way to go today. Sony's support has been just crossplay with PC games but eventually all their games will be PC as well.
Imagine a chex quest cereal box exclusive game was console only. You wouldn't hear about it now or play it.
HDR seems fine to me?
I've got Nex Machina, DMC5, Sekiro, RE2R, Hellblade and RE7, all automatically switch HDR on when the game starts. It acts and looks no different to the same games on my X/Pro.
I think some people think you need to leave HDR switched on in Windows display settings, and that's definitely not the case. Games that support HDR will automatically turn it in and off as necessary if they detect your display supports it.
I'm glad controller support has at least been getting better on PC, but it would be nice to have a better "do everything" controller than the Steam controller. It's nice and all, but it's dependent on Steam and I feel like a dual stick controller with ideas taken from the Steam controller could be a better overall option.
The only issue with HDR on PC is that there aren't many monitors currently that support it. If you're using one that does or playing on a TV, it's the same experience. Weird narrative from some people.
It's not about skill. It's about limitations of the controls. Show me you doing 360º "in a blink" with your crosshair like we can do with a mouse.
Its honestly worth it just for the performance. A game running at sub 30 fps does not look good in motion compared to, say 80 fps. Add to that better graphics and the rest and its a done deal.
This has to be a joke post..
Going down this road with people who have never used a mouse to game is pointless. They'll never admit that the limitations exist because they legitimately do not know or understand.
Why do that in a realistic approach game such as RDR2. This could destroy the purposely slow gameplay I suppose.
imo mouse is better for some (more arcade)games and dual sticks for others. You don't need always insane precise and speed.
I can't imagine the last of us with a mouse.
lol I was a pc gamer for years.
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