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Iranian military claims to have shot down US spy drone

Subutai

Subutai

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DrewFu said:
There won't be a military response, and Iran knows it. Everyone knows the only play against Iran is their complete destruction, and the US isn't going to do that over an old drone or oil tankers.
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Pretty much. The sanctions are clearly doing their job so there's no need to respond to these incidents really. Hopefully, it stays being these "small" things and I hope Iran doesn't start to target more trading ships. IMO, if a country like Norway or any other mostly "peaceful" country wants to respond because of Iranian attacks then that's all the US needs for war. Having those types of countries backing you up would be a big deal internationally. Maybe that's what they're waiting for? Iran has said they will disrupt trade through the Strait of Hormuz while sanctions are in place and the US is hoping these "micro-aggressions" go wrong with one of those countries.

Tamanon said:
You're not going to get folks on board for a war based on a drone being shot down where both sides disagree what airspace it was in.

Also.....it was probably in Iranian airspace.
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Probably within Iran's EEZ for which they have every right to shoot down a drone.
 
Funky Papa

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People are also forgetting that Iran is heavily involved in Yemen and Syria. If bombs are to be dropped, they'll probably fall there and in excess well before Teheran is ever targeted.

Then there's cyber. Which can disrupt critical industries and do monumental amounts of damage without directly risking lives.
 
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DrewFu

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Subutai said:
Pretty much. The sanctions are clearly doing their job so there's no need to respond to these incidents really. Hopefully, it stays being these "small" things and I hope Iran doesn't start to target more trading ships. IMO, if a country like Norway or any other mostly "peaceful" country wants to respond because of Iranian attacks then that's all the US needs for war. Having those types of countries backing you up would be a big deal internationally. Maybe that's what they're waiting for? Iran has said they will disrupt trade through the Strait of Hormuz while sanctions are in place and the US is hoping these "micro-aggressions" go wrong with one of those countries.
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Unless Iran completely flies off the rails and attacks a US base or installment, there isn't going to be war with Iran, and Iran knows this. Iran knows a boots on the ground invasion isn't logical and that the US wiping them off the planet is the only play. They also know the US isn't going to do that unless Iran does what I just mentioned - which also isn't going to happen.

Boots on the ground ain't happening. Targeted strikes aren't going to happen because that could cause Iran to start blowing up oil fields. Literally the only military play is the US obliterating Iran, which they aren't going to do unless Iran does something crazy that they aren't likely to do.
 
myzhi

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Subutai said:
Probably within Iran's EEZ for which they have every right to shoot down a drone.
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EEZ is normally 200 miles out, but the Straight of Hormuz is only 21 miles wide. Territorial sea line is actually only to 12 miles out. Countries can legally spy on and does to each other all the time within the EEZ. It's when getting inside the 12 mile that you can take action.
 
DrewFu

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myzhi said:
EEZ is normally 200 miles out, but the Straight if Homuz is only 21 miles wide. Territorial sea line actually only 12 miles out. Countries can legally spy on and does to each other all the time within the EEZ. It's when getting inside the 12 mile that you can take action.
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This. And even if it was directly in Iran's waters (which I doubt) that doesn't mean Iran SHOULD take action. The US and Russia regularly fly into and around each other's waters, but they don't shoot at each other. There is a big difference between can and should.

Any way you slice it, Iran is playing a dangerous game against a country that could squash them like a bug.
 
Mona

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its laughable how obvious it is that they're trying to force this conflict lmao

oh well, time for another war folks
 

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DrewFu said:
This. And even if it was directly in Iran's waters (which I doubt) that doesn't mean Iran SHOULD take action. The US and Russia regularly fly into and around each other's waters, but they don't shoot at each other. There is a big difference between can and should.

Any way you slice it, Iran is playing a dangerous game against a country that could squash them like a bug.
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Iran would exact a high cost in blood and treasure from the US in a major conflict. You can stomp on a hornets' nest and squash a lot of bugs in doing so, but they'll sting the fuck out of you too. Iran know this.
 
Dubbedinenglish

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myzhi said:
EEZ is normally 200 miles out, but the Straight of Hormuz is only 21 miles wide. Territorial sea line is actually only to 12 miles out. Countries can legally spy on and does to each other all the time within the EEZ. It's when getting inside the 12 mile that you can take action.
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To add EEZs aren't universally agreed or treatied with firm definitions (see: South China Sea).

This is a benefit of drones where we'd have to answer for a pilot's life or be forced to escalate over a manned aircraft. They should just step up air patrols and call it a day... but Bolton
 
DrewFu

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Thaedolus said:
Iran would exact a high cost in blood and treasure from the US in a major conflict. You can stomp on a hornets' nest and squash a lot of bugs in doing so, but they'll sting the fuck out of you too. Iran know this.
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Again, war with Iran would not be a traditional "conflict" or war with boots and tanks. It would be the US pancaking Iran (or more specifically Tehran). Yeah there would still be pain on the US side and elsewhere, but it would mostly stem from Iran blowing up as many oil fields in the middle east as they can. But Iran also knows this isn't going to happen over an outdated and soon to be replaced drone and a Japanese oil tanker.
 
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Dan said:
That agreement is functioning perfectly? Feel free to educate me on that.
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By all accounts Iran was in compliance with the agreement and then Trump ripped it up. I think there are zero good faith arguments for doing what he did there.

Was the agreement perfect? That's the wrong question to ask because perfection isn't really the goal or achievable in diplomacy, or really any aspects of life. It was better than nothing, Iran was cooperating and it could've led to a better agreement by both sides showing good faith and keeping their word. Now all bets are off once again

DrewFu said:
Again, war with Iran would not be a traditional "conflict" or war with boots and tanks. It would be the US pancaking Iran (or more specifically Tehran). Yeah there would still be pain on the US side and elsewhere, but it would mostly stem from Iran blowing up as many oil fields in the middle east as they can. But Iran also knows this isn't going to happen over an outdated and soon to be replaced drone and a Japanese oil tanker.
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I'm not sure how you'd just "pancake" a country with an aerial campaign using conventional weapons. I'm not sure how you have boots on the ground without the potential for tremendous casualties. It seems like Iran is far more capable than Iraq was and look how that turned out? It's one thing to roll into Tehran and topple the government in a week or something like that, but the ensuing power vacuum and I'm assuming occupation would be a nightmare
 
SupremeWu

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We're getting a big nasty war and pretty soon.

Because the idiot cheetoh, or his handlers, realize the obvious - it's harder to get voted out of office in the middle of a significant war
 
Malleymal

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It's not about if right now.. more about when. Trump will keep the tough talk tweets going and hope that it gets Iran to the table like the North Korea fraudulent summits. Iran is not North Korea. They don't have a boogey man that can give him his sought after photo op.

Keep acting like this is going to just go away. It isn't.
 

VectorPrime

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SupremeWu said:
We're getting a big nasty war and pretty soon.

Because the idiot cheetoh, or his handlers, realize the obvious - it's harder to get voted out of office in the middle of a significant war
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Sigh, that's not how it works when most people hate the President and don't want a war. "But Bush!" is to ignore literally everything that made that situation different.
 
Dan

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Thaedolus said:
By all accounts Iran was in compliance with the agreement and then Trump ripped it up. I think there are zero good faith arguments for doing what he did there.

Was the agreement perfect? That's the wrong question to ask because perfection isn't really the goal or achievable in diplomacy, or really any aspects of life. It was better than nothing, Iran was cooperating and it could've led to a better agreement by both sides showing good faith and keeping their word. Now all bets are off once again
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Given that they've said themselves that they're going to break their uranium stockpile limit, it seems that it wasn't working out that well. I haven't seen much in the way of the remaining members of that agreement coming out to do anything about the situation..
 

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US finally found a way to blame Iran for something, eh? Americans will watch this war from the comfort of their bedroom, with no remorse.
 
i-hate-u

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America are not good guys, and they were never the good guys no matter the puppet sitting in the oval office.
 
DrewFu

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Shao Kahn said:
US finally found a way to blame Iran for something, eh? Americans will watch this war from the comfort of their bedroom, with no remorse.
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Do people not read up on this situation at all? It appears at the present that Iran shot the drone over what is international waters. The other day, it seems overwhelmingly like Iran was behind the tanker attacks. This shit, at the present, appears to be entirely on Iran.

Folks need to stop this blame the US crap in regards to this.
 

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I doubt anything will happen, probably some extra money for the military complex in a fake ramp up then Trump gets booted out of office.
 
Heshinsi

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Dan said:
Given that they've said themselves that they're going to break their uranium stockpile limit, it seems that it wasn't working out that well. I haven't seen much in the way of the remaining members of that agreement coming out to do anything about the situation..
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That declaration is a direct consequence of the US backing out of the treaty and resuming sanctions. You can't retroactively use that as an example of the deal not working, thus justifying the US pulling out.
 

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DrewFu said:
Do people not read up on this situation at all? It appears at the present that Iran shot the drone over what is international waters. The other day, it seems overwhelmingly like Iran was behind the tanker attacks. This shit, at the present, appears to be entirely on Iran.

Folks need to stop this blame the US crap in regards to this.
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Most of the time, people don't read the OP, so there's no way people would look into stuff.
 
Mr_Antimatter

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DrewFu said:
Do people not read up on this situation at all? It appears at the present that Iran shot the drone over what is international waters. The other day, it seems overwhelmingly like Iran was behind the tanker attacks. This shit, at the present, appears to be entirely on Iran.

Folks need to stop this blame the US crap in regards to this.
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The world doesn't trust anything Trump or the US says about Iran for good reason. No one wants another Iraq, and so much fo the blame can be placed on Trump pulling out of the nuclear agreement without reason.
 

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Dan said:
Given that they've said themselves that they're going to break their uranium stockpile limit, it seems that it wasn't working out that well. I haven't seen much in the way of the remaining members of that agreement coming out to do anything about the situation..
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The deal is dead, Iran has zero reason to be compliant with a deal that the core member no longer honors and is crippling their economy with sanctions that are rapidly destabilizing the nation as a whole.
 
inner-G

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DrewFu said:
Do people not read up on this situation at all? It appears at the present that Iran shot the drone over what is international waters. The other day, it seems overwhelmingly like Iran was behind the tanker attacks. This shit, at the present, appears to be entirely on Iran.

Folks need to stop this blame the US crap in regards to this.
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Yep. Seems like they are the ones pushing for war to me.
 
Dan

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TheLostBigBoss said:
The deal is dead, Iran has zero reason to be compliant with a deal that the core member no longer honors and is crippling their economy with sanctions that are rapidly destabilizing the nation as a whole.
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Yep. It does make the EU seem so inconsequential being in the deal in the first place. But at least the politicians had fun congratulating themselves and Obama.
 

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DrewFu said:
Do people not read up on this situation at all? It appears at the present that Iran shot the drone over what is international waters. The other day, it seems overwhelmingly like Iran was behind the tanker attacks. This shit, at the present, appears to be entirely on Iran.

Folks need to stop this blame the US crap in regards to this.
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The US is responsible for this because they ripped up a functional nuclear agreement and has sent the Iranian economy which is going to contract 10% in two years time.

Iran is acting out like this because it's likely giving clear warnings to the world the consequences of these sanctions if they continue down the current path. Iran isn't going to just stand around as their nation collapses and not punish those who directly caused it.

So yes, Iran is likely acting as the aggresor. The United States are directly responsible for leading them down a path with limited options.
 
GalvoAg

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i-hate-u said:
America are not good guys, and they were never the good guys no matter the puppet sitting in the oval office.
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This is the conclusion you come up with after this and the oil tankers from last week all point back to Iran? I know some of you hate the US and all but you're starting to sound a little like Alex Jones with all these conspiracy theories.
 
DrewFu

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TheLostBigBoss said:
The US is responsible for this because they ripped up a functional nuclear agreement and has sent the Iranian economy which is going to contract 10% in two years time.

Iran is acting out like this because it's likely giving clear warnings to the world the consequences of these sanctions if they continue down the current path. Iran isn't going to just stand around as their nation collapses and not punish those who directly caused it.

So yes, Iran is likely acting as the aggresor. The United States are directly responsible for leading them down a path with limited options.
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No, Iran would be responsible. The US leaving the treaty does not make it ok for Iran to attack tankers or military targets in international waters. C'mon bruh.
 

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DrewFu said:
No, Iran would be responsible. The US leaving the treaty does not make it ok for Iran to attack tankers or military targets in international waters.
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Nobody said that. That doesn't mean the US has created this situation 100% out of their own volition.

Iran taking pot shots at international tankers are clear warnings to the world that it's not going to just wither and die from US sanctions while everyone watches.

If Iran sees the situation of inaction leading to the eventual collapse of their government, then high risk action becomes palpable due to having very little to lose.
 
i-hate-u

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GalvoAg said:
This is the conclusion you come up with after this and the oil tankers from last week all point back to Iran? I know some of you hate the US and all but you're starting to sound a little like Alex Jones with all these conspiracy theories.
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Their track record is abysmal. Everywhere they put troops in foreign land was a mistake after WW2.
 

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TheLostBigBoss said:
The US is responsible for this because they ripped up a functional nuclear agreement and has sent the Iranian economy which is going to contract 10% in two years time.

Iran is acting out like this because it's likely giving clear warnings to the world the consequences of these sanctions if they continue down the current path. Iran isn't going to just stand around as their nation collapses and not punish those who directly caused it.

So yes, Iran is likely acting as the aggresor. The United States are directly responsible for leading them down a path with limited options.
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US is doing to Iran what Israel has been doing to Palestine; leaving fighting back as the only option and using that fight as a alibi to attack.

If US was not pushing Iran, Iran had zero incentive for war but US has all the incentives for a war. 1- It will take out one of its adversaries. 2- It will take out one of the last oil producing countries which leans toward China therefore getting another chokehold on China. 3- creating a refugee crisis much larger in scale than before in EU.
 
DrewFu

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TheLostBigBoss said:
Nobody said that. That doesn't mean the US has created this situation 100% out of their own volition.
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Blaming Iran for attacking targets in international waters on the US is not of the US' own volition. That is of Iran's.

It is OK to not agree with the US backing out of the agreement (and it was a stupid move) and it's OK to dislike Trump, but to blame Iran for "acting out" on the US is absurd. Iran is not a toddler. They are responsible for their own actions. Iran attacking targets in international waters is 100% on them.
 
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