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Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,271
Can someone explain something to me? Why is the Senate able to call Bolton (if they wanted to), but the House Intelligence Committee wasn't able to? Can the House Inteligence Comitee call Bolton to testify even after this is all over?

Bolton, in a nutshell, said he wouldn't testify for the House without a court ordering him to do so. Probably the Supreme Court.

Later, he said he'd be willing to testify for the Senate. Basically, he's willing to testify if Republicans want him to, but not Democrats.

Whether he'd comply with a House subpoena later, who knows? I would guess not, though.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,114
At this point Trump's defenses combined show he could literally murder his political opponents and still be fine legally.
 

Doorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,943
Michigan
None of this feels terribly substantive. I feel like the only good this will ultimately provide is buying some time in the hopes of some other sort of damning news coming out in the next day or two. Not that even more damning news would really matter anymore, anyway. The president is getting his SOTU victory lap, come Hell or high water.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Arguing entirely process. Sweet. Wonder how pissed Trump is that his defense is giving up on arguing about a perfect call.
 

flyinj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,997
I never understood why any Republican senator would ever vote for witnesses. They all know Trump is guilty, and they all know they are going to vote to acquit him. Why would they vote for a witness that will make their inevitable acquittal of the president look even worse ?
 

Atlagev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
686
Bolton, in a nutshell, said he wouldn't testify for the House without a court ordering him to do so. Probably the Supreme Court.

Later, he said he'd be willing to testify for the Senate. Basically, he's willing to testify if Republicans want him to, but not Democrats.

Whether he'd comply with a House subpoena later, who knows? I would guess not, though.

*sigh*... I guess I'll just have to wait for his fucking book to come out for him to confirm that the president was committing crimes, then.

Fucking cowards in the GOP. Name me one who isn't. I'll wait.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
I never understood why any Republican senator would ever vote for witnesses. They all know Trump is guilty, and they all know they are going to vote to acquit him. Why would they vote for a witness that will make their inevitable acquittal of the president look even worse ?
The argument for Bolton is that they'll look worse for not calling him once his book comes out.
 

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,370
The argument for Bolton is that they'll look worse for not calling him once his book comes out.

But the information NOW means they would have to remove Trump.

The information LATER means that they at least have a few months to spin it, diminish it, and further interfere with the election before the public votes.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,863
Hakeem Jeffries did good except for the last line. He's going to scare some Senators by openly saying they want a lot more witnesses not just Bolton
 

medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,480
Using the historical precedence of every impeachment trial in the Senate having witnesses except this one is a good point to keep hammering home.
 

BFIB

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,733
One thing about the GOP, they know how to take a right hook and shake it off. After Bolton's bombshell, that should have been enough they all just fall in line, morals be damned.

Its why the Dems need to hit them hard with investigations and make their shit public.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,863
But the information NOW means they would have to remove Trump.

The information LATER means that they at least have a few months to spin it, diminish it, and further interfere with the election before the public votes.

Also statements made in a book are easier to refute as false or "money-making" scheme.

But if he goes under oath saying the same thing, then it becomes a record of fact unless Trump also wants to go under oath to dispute it.

Basically statements made under the penalty of perjury carry more weight than statements made in a book. So the GOP think they can defend book statements a month from now.
 

Doran

Member
Jun 9, 2018
1,851
That question seems like it should have been asked to the presidents council. Do you have evidence to back up your claims?
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Bolton, in a nutshell, said he wouldn't testify for the House without a court ordering him to do so. Probably the Supreme Court.

Later, he said he'd be willing to testify for the Senate. Basically, he's willing to testify if Republicans want him to, but not Democrats.

Whether he'd comply with a House subpoena later, who knows? I would guess not, though.

If no witnesses in the senate, then Pelosi needs to let the House finally take their gloves off and consider all the weapons at their disposal.

Inherent contempts need to start flying, and the first guy I target is Bolton. Start off with punitive fines enforced by the GAO.

The main body in charge of enforcing this provision, since its adoption, has been the Government Accountability Office (GAO). GAO is among the more esoteric government offices in Washington, D.C. The agency exerts a tremendous amount of power and influence over distribution of the federal budget, second, perhaps, to the Treasury Department. It owes some of this unique influence to its status as a legislative agency. Given the agency's close ties to Congress, relying on GAO's discretion removes the perennial problem of dealing with executive departments that are often unaccommodating in enforcing contempt power. Second, and perhaps more importantly, Congress has previously triggered the process of GAO's reviews of violations under the act by merely sending a request letter to GAO, as opposed to taking a full vote in the House. GAO's exercise of this power has been met with executive pushback in the past, particularly the claim that enforcement of the act violated the executive privilege. GAO has addressed such concerns before, asserting that "absent an opinion from a federal court concluding that [the provision] is unconstitutional," the agency will continue to enforce it. GAO continues to make its own determinations of the balance between the executive privilege interest and Congress's need for information.

Although the possibility remains that executive officials might refuse to comply with the final finding in any of the above scenarios, these strategies will still shift the legal advantage to Congress. Unlike in cases of civil or criminal contempt, in which the executive official's obligation to comply triggers after obtaining a court judgment, the options above place the officials under a legal obligation to comply first and seek judicial redress later. This might shift the burden associated with time-consuming and inexpedient court litigation, as Congress can enforce its punishment first and leave it to the executive branch to reverse the decision in the courts.
 
May 26, 2018
24,064
GOP is taking so much legal heat off future presidents that it's honestly incredible. Do they just think a democrat will never, ever be president again?
 

DanGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,757
This isn't really that clever.

The relevant question is, what did the foreign aid have to do with the make-believe corruption of the Bidens? There was no connection, except Trump's benefit.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,823
Bolton, in a nutshell, said he wouldn't testify for the House without a court ordering him to do so. Probably the Supreme Court.

Later, he said he'd be willing to testify for the Senate. Basically, he's willing to testify if Republicans want him to, but not Democrats.

Whether he'd comply with a House subpoena later, who knows? I would guess not, though.
Also, as Chief Justice, Roberts could immediately rule on subpoenas.
 

Doorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,943
Michigan
I kinda wish in this answer that Schiff brought up that even if Hypothetical Obama had a legitimate concern to investigate, he would at least be running it through official State channels and not directing those involved to his personal attorney.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,863
To the GOP's credit at least they've sent two questions to the other side.

I really wish the Dems would challenge the defense council. Put them on their toes. It would be more productive than just listening the House Managers read prepared statements.
 

Deleted member 2533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,325
That q. for Schiff doesn't even make sense strategically, Dems don't revere their presidents as infallible Gods, if you asked a Dem "hey, if Obama shot someone on 5th avenue, should he be arrested for murder?" Okay, sure, why wouldn't he be?
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,470
GOP is taking so much legal heat off future presidents that it's honestly incredible. Do they just think a democrat will never, ever be president again?

Well they're absolutely inching closer and closer to stating that it is in the nation's best interest that trump remain president for life, so make of that what you will.

So is it done and dusted? Will they just not vote on witnesses and acquit?

We don't know yet. They'll vote on whether or not to have witnesses, but we don't know if it will be successful or not.