I' was pretty similar and raised that way.
What broke me out of it was basically getting a hatred for Trump before he got the nomination as well as being involved with a community like this and Gaf pre-exodus.
At first I just against Trump, "once he is out i'll go back to being Republican" but then I start accepting other sources of information dumping on Trump to reinforce my position.
Eventually my eyes were just open to anything.
Finally seeing the Republican party just turn into absolute clowns bending over backwards deflecting anything from Trump has changed it more to 'almost certainly never voting Republican on anything again"
The Roy Moore thing as an Alabamaian was also an eye opener at just the right time.
The Dem house managers have used their three days. Today, day 8 , is the final day for the defense.
It's the opposite of critical thinking.
But there is a connection, it's through Bolton and O'Brien. Lol
No real argument there, but then it's easy to see how they didn't even do a good job on that front. The Democrats spent 3 days calling Trump corrupt while also laying out evidence (4 days if you count opening arguments). The Trump team barely spent 4 hours on Biden after 2 days. Maybe today will be all about Biden....ugh that's going to be annoying to listen to.
And they don't pay attention because they don't care; only if something interrupts their daily routine do they care. That's why "it's the economy, stupid." In Trump's case, most of the stuff he's done is either immoral to other people, like immigrants in cages, or it's ticking time-bombs that are too indirect, like the supreme court.
Frankly, this is how we ended up with a broken political system. Most people don't care and have no sense of "anticipation" for what could happen years down the line thanks to an incompetent president. We're being kneecapped, but most of the issues are going crop up slowly as institutions and soft-power fall apart down the line, and most people don't "anticipate" that far.
State TV in action.
The only bright side is that I hope this makes Republicans despise Bolton because he's just as awful as Trump.
I thought they had 24 hours? They only used two on Saturday
Bolton reckoned Trump was in Putin's pocket.... But why is the slimy fucker putting it in his book instead of helping get the traitor out?!?!?
Did we all forget what was happening when the process was still in the house?
When Bolton was publicly saying he was ready to testify if subpoena'ed by yhe House inquiry while Trump was telling everyone to ignore them?!?
Bolton could have testified well before the book deal and because of all the fuckery it never happened
Now after this shit he may actually be pulled in to testify in the Senate which is arguably better
Not quite right. Missing some important details.
They wanted a judge to rule on the subpoena, which would have dragged the impeachment inquiry while they waited on a ruling (which would have probably have to go to the SCOTUS).
Now, it appears that they would no longer wait on a judicial ruling if subpoenaed.
Either way I am seeing famed grifter Rand Paul using the talking point that Bolton is only crowing to make book money
Which is partly true minus the detail that he was willing to testify waaaay before the book was written
When you can't attack the facts, attack the person.
Par for the course for Republicans.
Aren't Americans upset about the deficit? Wasn't Trump going to reduce the actual debt in his first mandate? Imagine doing this kind of deficit while the economy is raging... I guess it will be democrats fault when they will have to deal with it in the future.
I believe they don't need to wait on it now since Roberts is right there and can make a ruling on it without going through the entire legal hell.
If he testified, he'd tell us what was in the book. And then we wouldn't have to buy the book. And then he wouldn't make money from it. Yay!
Am I the only one who is really weirded out by the fact that War Super Hawk John Bolton is the supposed savior of the free world here when not too terribly long ago when it was announced Trump was making him national security advisor that pretty much everyone here and in the media was suggesting Bolton was batshit insane and bloodthirsty to start WWIII with Iran?
This is the dude we're pinning our hopes on testifying? 😑
This is the dude we're pinning our hopes on testifying? 😑
We all know Grand Moff Tarkin is not going to save the Republic.
I'm very sceptical of what Bolton has. Partly because every time we get one of these "juicy expose from ex-insider writing a book" it's either bullshit or utterly insignificant within a week or two.
But thinking it through, I did not view Bolton as a rational, trustworthy person before, during or after he was in the White House. Dude thought Libya was a good model for what the US should do to North Korea. Him getting fired and not getting his sexy delicious Iran war also brings his motivations into question. So this being leaked just in time to make the argument for extra witnesses more compelling at a stage where it looks like realistically, Trump could be quickly acquitted is suspicious to me. I suspect it is part of the plan to get the witnesses argument out there because for the Democrats the best case scenario is that they get more compelling evidence from him. If not, the process in the Senate will be stretched out as negotiations and depositions are made. Extending the process is bad for Trump. Lastly, I highly doubt that whatever Bolton has will move the needle when it comes down to the actual vote. So yeah I really think that the Democrats are not expecting to win the case their strategy is to extend bad PR for Trump with 2020 in mind.
But thinking it through, I did not view Bolton as a rational, trustworthy person before, during or after he was in the White House. Dude thought Libya was a good model for what the US should do to North Korea. Him getting fired and not getting his sexy delicious Iran war also brings his motivations into question. So this being leaked just in time to make the argument for extra witnesses more compelling at a stage where it looks like realistically, Trump could be quickly acquitted is suspicious to me. I suspect it is part of the plan to get the witnesses argument out there because for the Democrats the best case scenario is that they get more compelling evidence from him. If not, the process in the Senate will be stretched out as negotiations and depositions are made. Extending the process is bad for Trump. Lastly, I highly doubt that whatever Bolton has will move the needle when it comes down to the actual vote. So yeah I really think that the Democrats are not expecting to win the case their strategy is to extend bad PR for Trump with 2020 in mind.
Even for the Senate?? What can Roberts rule on then, just Executive Privilege?
They're separate issues. He is everything you say he is, but he is also a by-the-books diplomat. And his concerns about their drug deal has long been a smoking gun out of all this and his voice will have gravitas. It's hard for the GOP to call him out when he is everything they want, otherwise.
And this is hardly coming out of nowhere. Dude was in on Ukraine from the start and recused himself immediately.
This is from October.
None of this is new news. Just his verification of what the Times and others have already reported.
If they can get him as a witness, they need to do it.
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Those same Republicans are in full control of wether he testifies or not, they're shitting on him to provide cover for them to all fall in line and vote no witnesses.
They've shit in on everyone against trump. Wake the fuck up they're stealing the country and voting sure as fuck ain't going to be sacred.
Fact: Mitt Romney has a Bacon number of 3.
Mitt Romney
->
Jane Edith Wilson (in Janeane from Des Moines)
->
Frank Welker (in Eight Legged Freaks)
->
Kevin Bacon (in Balto)
No. It's all corroborated others. The republicans simply do not care. All of this would be enough to remove Obama from office and have him hung on the white house lawn.
Agreed. There's way too much smoke there. Human beings aren't simple binary decision creatures. Bolton can both be an utterly despicable piece of work while also being concerned about another human being an even more despicable piece of work.
As you noted we know PLENTY about Bolton's actions and the actions he told his allies to take in the midst of it all. And we know what the conspirators thought of it.
I am. The deficit is up 74% in 3 years since Obama's last year. This is what Trump said about the deficit in 2016, which is now over $23TN. So-called "fiscal conservatives" my ass, and the military is so over-funded Trump can pull billions from it to pay for another campaign promise he failed to get funded through Congress, and the "support the troops" party is fine with it.
DT: We're a debtor nation. We've got to get rid of — I talked about bubble. We've got to get rid of the $19 trillion in debt.
BW: How long would that take?
DT: I think I could do it fairly quickly, because of the fact the numbers . . . .
BW: What's fairly quickly?
DT: Well, I would say over a period of eight years. And I'll tell you why.
BW: Would you ever be open to tax increases as part of that, to solve the problem?
DT: I don't think I'll need to. The power is trade. Our deals are so bad.
BW: That would be $2 trillion a year.
DT: No, but I'm renegotiating all of our deals, Bob. The big trade deals that we're doing so badly on. With China, $505 billion this year in trade. We're losing with everybody.
Blegh. Came into work and had to hear my coworker regurgitate Trump's defense. I had to take him through why what Obama said to Putin was in no way comparable, how Biden's statement about withholding aid wasn't comparable, how this isn't something every president does. He clearly had no idea what "investigating the 2016 election" was actually about and thought it related to Biden's "corruption".
It's just so exhausting and so much is just whataboutism nonsense.
It's just so exhausting and so much is just whataboutism nonsense.
Dude's an immigrant too. I have some terrible news for him.
The interests align, he wants American supremacy in the world and Trump is actively ceding it to other nations.
I see conservatives cite the bolded often, but did anything even...come out of that?At the very least, I can't imagine anything as egregious as the Comey fallout. (Including sharing classified info with Russian officials within the Oval Office.)
Do the Republicans strike you as a particularly forward-thinking party at this point?
The amount of people who have sacrificed their own legacy and credibility on the altar of Trump is staggering.
I don't even understand the argument. I came in the middle and it just sounds like Obama saying he can better work with Putin when not dealing with an election. How is that weird or demanding interference or comparable to withholding congressionally approved aid?
It appears the new GOP strategy for handling the possibility of a Bolton testimony is to read the manuscript of his book behind closed doors and use that in place of other testimony.
So basically claim to have been able to "read" what Bolton would have told you then hand waive it away as nothing to see here, let's move on to the voting.
Seems to fly in the face of complaining that Bolton is just trying to make a buck off of a book while creating further intrigue about said book by claiming to have read it outside of the American public's eye and then be able to determine the President's guilt based on that.
So basically claim to have been able to "read" what Bolton would have told you then hand waive it away as nothing to see here, let's move on to the voting.
Seems to fly in the face of complaining that Bolton is just trying to make a buck off of a book while creating further intrigue about said book by claiming to have read it outside of the American public's eye and then be able to determine the President's guilt based on that.