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Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,965
Doom Eternals combat system is like nothing ever done before in a first person shooter. It turns the game into an action shooter like Devil may cry but in first person. It honestly needs a fucking style meter honestly and I hope they implement one for the next game. You can be stylish as fuck and look amazing doing it. Once you get it down there is not a single thing that can stop you. It doesnt matter what the game throws at you because you know how the language of the game works.

Its why I cant go back to 2016 or if I do i blast my way through with 0 challenge whatsoever because quick switching BREAKS 2016 completely.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
I liked eternal a lot mechanically but something about 2016 is unmatched. The atmosphere and world was so damn good.
 

Villein

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,982
I liked Eternal, but I have to agree something felt off the whole game, sometimes mechanically, sometimes tonally. It never reaches the heights of 2016 for me.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3017

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,653
Through thick and thin, this still far and away my game of the year. Might be the shooter of the generation.

It's a bold, confident, unrelenting realization of 2016 that believes in itself that you will have fun playing the game the way the developers designed it to be. You kinda have to view it like a workout; you have to nail the fundamental techniques in order to make any meaningful progress.

It's not perfect, the story is a bit too abstract for it's own good and the levels can get real cramped for the amount of enemies they throw at you, that can use a bit of tweaking, but the platforming was by no means as offensive as they were made out to be though.

Here's a fantastic interview with Hugo Martin explaining the general philosophy of Doom Eternal and how it's a game that DEMANDS you in the hopes that you stay engaged.



It's honestly a stroke of genius.

I watched this earlier in the year. It's a great interview and I respect the team for creating the game they truly wanted to make.

There's really no doubt their audience contracted by going in this direction, though. Doom 2016 was a much easier game for a wider playerbase to engage with and enjoy.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,239
Doom Eternals combat system is like nothing ever done before in a first person shooter. It turns the game into an action shooter like Devil may cry but in first person. It honestly needs a fucking style meter honestly and I hope they implement one for the next game. You can be stylish as fuck and look amazing doing it. Once you get it down there is not a single thing that can stop you. It doesnt matter what the game throws at you because you know how the language of the game works.

Its why I cant go back to 2016 or if I do i blast my way through with 0 challenge whatsoever because quick switching BREAKS 2016 completely.

That's what got me to stop (I think), though I do plan to go back once I get in the right spot. I played a few spots where it wasn't about just shooting things, it became more about (what I felt) was being forced to use the mechanics that they added, rather than "be good with the guns", which is what I was looking for. Felt like they gave you less ammo to compel you, but I don't have insight on the development of the game, so that last bit is conjecture at best.

That said, the game is a technical wonder, and it's a fine shooter. It just wasn't what I was hoping it would be, which was more 2016. Still, I'm happy I own it, and I'll get around to it again someday.
 

Nahual Amini

Member
Oct 30, 2017
47
That's what got me to stop (I think), though I do plan to go back once I get in the right spot. I played a few spots where it wasn't about just shooting things, it became more about (what I felt) was being forced to use the mechanics that they added, rather than "be good with the guns", which is what I was looking for. Felt like they gave you less ammo to compel you, but I don't have insight on the development of the game, so that last bit is conjecture at best.

That said, the game is a technical wonder, and it's a fine shooter. It just wasn't what I was hoping it would be, which was more 2016. Still, I'm happy I own it, and I'll get around to it again someday.

Having less ammo means you have to be good with the guns, you have less margin for error.
 

Alexalder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
377
Italy
I felt like 2016 forced you to use every single weapon while in Eternal the super shotgun-grappling hook basically counters everything with just a few power weapon uses here and there
 

Jeffolation

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,148
I got halfway through 2016, got really, really bored and dropped it. Retroactively killed any interest I had in checking out Eternal. Everything I've heard about Eternal sounds like I made the right call.
 

Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,491
The only misstep with Eternal is the Marauder. There is no defending that decision. As a boss, it would've been awesome. As a common enemy type, they're goddamn miserable to fight. I got 100% in Eternal and hated every minute spent fighting those bastards.
Eternal is fantastic tho

It's a game that forces you to use every single tool available to you, and you feel powerful as hell when you can pull it off
My thoughts exactly. Doom Eternal takes everything that worked in Doom 2016 and expands on it brilliantly. It's far and above my favorite of the two, and I hope the third doesn't regress due to negative fan feedback. Eternal doesn't want to be Doom 2016, it wants to be harder, better, and faster.

If you play it like it's Doom 2016, you'll die quickly and often, because it's not supposed to be a simple run-and-gun. You're expected to be topping off your armor and ammo with the flame belch and chainsaw, as well as fragging and freezing enemies to set up efficient kill zones. Ultimately, when everything clicks and you're flying through the arena with grenades and flamethrowers and rockets flying everywhere, it feels so much better to play than its predecessors, that Doom 2016 comparatively felt so slow.
This is why I'm struggling and not enjoying it as much 😉.
That's why you have a chainsaw. Use it on grunt enemies. Also, when the Maykr Drones start showing up, plink them in the head for the same effect as a chainsaw on a grunt.
 

Justsomeguy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,712
UK
That's why you have a chainsaw. Use it on grunt enemies. Also, when the Maykr Drones start showing up, plink them in the head for the same effect as a chainsaw on a grunt.
Interestingly I just picked the game up again after a few weeks break to replay skyrim. Got my arse handed to me a lot of times on one of the arenas until I started being more "smart" about finishing moves, to stock up on ammo (chainsaw) or health (glory kill) and basically trying to manage resources despite the frantic combat. Started to click a bit more and I see what others mean by the style meter and managing the combat and weapon types... It's not "obvious" but I can see how you can get into a flow with it.
 

sugarmonkey

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
515
It's so weird that this thread stayed off the first page for months, and yesterday + today it's near the top every time I log in. Did something happen with the game yesterday that is making it less desirable? New patch or something?
 

bonch00ski

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,813
I felt the same, I gave up early on for months....

Then came back 2 weeks ago and just fell in love and played it non stop. Can't explain why, but it didn't leave a good first impression.
 

DaCocoBrova

Member
Oct 27, 2017
453
I love and still play 2016 to this day. I watched the developer interviews, and them saying they couldn't go back to 2016 after Eternal. I was stoked! Then it came out, and the vibe I got was that the game, while evolved, technically superior and all that...just wasn't anywhere near as fun.

I play games to have fun, and 2016 on many occasions left me with a smile and had me saying out loud 'This is why I game!'

I'll play Eternal one day, I just know I won't enjoy it as much from a gameplay standpoint.
 

Xtortion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,676
United States
Doom Eternals combat system is like nothing ever done before in a first person shooter. It turns the game into an action shooter like Devil may cry but in first person.

This. DOOM 2016 is a great FPS, but DOOM Eternal is a great character action game up there with Japan's best. The combat design is absolutely unreal, and far exceeds what I thought Id Software was capable of coming off the previous game.
 

Deleted member 17207

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,208
I just dove into this game and at first, completely hated it - but once my brain sort of rejigged itself to the differences, I have to say - I'm enjoying it quite a bit.

No denying it's different from the 2016 game though. I saw someone on Reddit put it well:

"Doom Eternal feels like a sequel, not a part 2 - which is what most video game sequels feel like"
 

RedOnePunch

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,628
Might sound harsh but I feel they kind of got their heads up their own asses after the success of DOOM 2016.

I had a bad feeling about the game when Hugo kept talking about giving the player less freedom and trusting the developer. He talked about how He was focusing on why some reviewers didn't like the game and he came across as wanting to please everyone which you never can.

The tone of the game also went overboard. I couldn't finish the game. I was so excited to play it.
 

Xtortion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,676
United States
Might sound harsh but I feel they kind of got their heads up their own asses after the success of DOOM 2016.

I had a bad feeling about the game when Hugo kept talking about giving the player less freedom and trusting the developer.

The tone of the game also went overboard. I couldn't finish the game. I was so excited to play it.

The freedom of DOOM 2016 created a wide but shallow pool. As long as you were on the move, there wasn't all that much to consider on a moment to moment basis. A few guns were particularly effective and there wasn't much incentive to use anything else, and the game didn't really encourage anything either. There was little to master in that game.

DOOM Eternal asks you to constantly make important decisions. Say a Mancubus spawns. Do you switch to the precision bolt and take out his guns that way, or do you use sticky bombs or the heat blast instead? Do you go for pure DPS with lock-on burst rockets, the chaingun or the ballista, or do you falter/freeze him with a frag/ice grenade before running in for a blood punch? If there's a Carcass in the arena that can screw up your plans, do you prioritize that first? And once you get the Mancubus in a stagger state, do you use your flame belch on him for a few free points of armor, or do you save it to use on a larger group? Eternal constantly asks you to make these kinds of decisions, which imo leads to a far deeper and more challenging to master experience than 2016 could ever offer.
 
Oct 27, 2017
168
New York
Really did enjoy everything about Eternal except the ammo management. While I dont think it was a bad idea I could do without it in the next one. Though it isn't a deal breaker. Personally I get so wrapped up in the action I forget and wind up with empty clips. While annoying its not crazy.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,788
Argentina
Yeah, while Eternal does shines sometimes it's a frustrating experience for me full of design ideas that I didn't like (and some that I don't like in video game overall).

Also the story got way dumber imo.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,921
Doom Eternals combat system is like nothing ever done before in a first person shooter. It turns the game into an action shooter like Devil may cry but in first person. It honestly needs a fucking style meter honestly and I hope they implement one for the next game. You can be stylish as fuck and look amazing doing it. Once you get it down there is not a single thing that can stop you. It doesnt matter what the game throws at you because you know how the language of the game works.

Its why I cant go back to 2016 or if I do i blast my way through with 0 challenge whatsoever because quick switching BREAKS 2016 completely.
This. 2016 just feels a bit clunky and slow after playing Eternal.
 

RedOnePunch

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,628
The freedom of DOOM 2016 created a wide but shallow pool. As long as you were on the move, there wasn't all that much to consider on a moment to moment basis. A few guns were particularly effective and there wasn't much incentive to use anything else, and the game didn't really encourage anything either. There was little to master in that game.

DOOM Eternal asks you to constantly make important decisions. Say a Mancubus spawns. Do you switch to the precision bolt and take out his guns that way, or do you use sticky bombs or the heat blast instead? Do you go for pure DPS with lock-on burst rockets, the chaingun or the ballista, or do you falter/freeze him with a frag/ice grenade before running in for a blood punch? If there's a Carcass in the arena that can screw up your plans, do you prioritize that first? And once you get the Mancubus in a stagger state, do you use your flame belch on him for a few free points of armor, or do you save it to use on a larger group? Eternal constantly asks you to make these kinds of decisions, which imo leads to a far deeper and more challenging to master experience than 2016 could ever offer.

I understand but it sacrificed the power fantasy of grabbing a shotgun and going to town, which is what I enjoyed most about Doom 2016. It also doesn't really encourage much creativity other than make you juggle weapons. The enemy weak points are too specific, not giving you any freedom other than using the exact weapon they want you to use. The only choice I felt I had was choosing which enemies to kill first
 

Nzyme32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,269
Mostly opposite for me.
I thoroughly enjoyed almost every single change put into Doom Eternal. It plays so well at high refresh and with velocity based input, which seems great for the twitchy speed at which you want to control fights.
Story could be a bit more serious sure.
The marauders are what I love to hate. I'm down with having something that demands I rethink my game plan and adjust flow to take these clowns on. I get that it's frustrating when you need to adjust to it, but it fits so well once you understand how they work and then how to deal with them in varying scenarios. I am all for that kind of challenge.
Loved the increased difficulty ultra violence.
Not so keen on the anticlimactic end boss section
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,191
I am really curious what they will do with the sequel. Their changes in gameplay loop really seemed to have split the fanbase, half loving it and the other half hating it. I would imagine they would try to find a middle ground between those 2 groups, but how would you even do that?
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
The need for you to strategize your secondary attacks to get ammo health and shields dropping separately made it more of a chore than a fun shooter

the hub world adds nothing and is bad design

the final boss was lame

the lazy story not focused on dr Hayden disappointed me. Seems like they forgot about him and wrote him back in last minute

not a bad game but doom2016 was superior
 
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Rickyrozay2o9

Member
Dec 11, 2017
4,459
I respect what they did with eternal and expanding the gameplay. I just can't say I enjoyed it nearly as much as 2016 as a whole. I really just tried to rush through it.
 

calibos

Member
Dec 13, 2017
2,022
Still haven't been able to push through this one. The combination of shooting, platforming, enemies that know where you are all the time, ammo management and the need for precision aim at times really can be frustrating in some of the levels they built.

Also, fucking LAVA FLOORS.

I may get there eventually.
 

-Raven-

Member
Jun 26, 2018
229
i loved both games, even platinumed both...but have to agreed with op in almost everthing. 2016 is the superior one
 

Xtortion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,676
United States
I understand but it sacrificed the power fantasy of grabbing a shotgun and going to town, which is what I enjoyed most about Doom 2016. It also doesn't really encourage much creativity other than make you juggle weapons. The enemy weak points are too specific, not giving you any freedom other than using the exact weapon they want you to use. The only choice I felt I had was choosing which enemies to kill first

I wouldn't say the enemy weak points are that specific, really. For an Arachnotron turret for example, you can one shot it with the precision bolt, sticky bombs, heat blast, rockets (easiest with remote detonation), and I believe the ballista. Or you could leave the weak point intact and go for pure DPS, or go for a falter/freeze and close range damage. The Cacodemon is probably the most narrow in approach, but even then you have the choice of sticky bombs, a frag grenade (if you don't want to switch weapons), or just killing it in one hit with an arbalest shot or lock on rocket burst.
 

Pyramid Head

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,849
[
I am really curious what they will do with the sequel. Their changes in gameplay loop really seemed to have split the fanbase, half loving it and the other half hating it. I would imagine they would try to find a middle ground between those 2 groups, but how would you even do that?
For me, its not about the 'gameplay loop', all that stuff is fine. The platforming was an issue though. The mechanics work great in tight combat arenas, but having to jankily double and triple boost across lava floors or over vast areas of nothing just felt like the worst padding. How about they just move all these disconnects islands of game play closer together and not have me waste my time gliding, climbing and hopping between them? Because it doesn't feel good and it isn't fun.

I also didn't like the 'world' they created in Eternal. 2016 had a perfect balance of fantastical nonsense and believable environments. Through great design, the places you visit seem functional - like that's what a science facility or whatever on Mars might look like. The environments in Eternal, for lack of a better word, just felt 'stupid'; nowhere felt 'real'. Haydens office complex, the destroyed cities - it all felt like it was taking place on a zany game show set. Contrasted with how hard the lore dumps tried to get you to be invested in the world, it just didn't work for me.

Also, fuck the swimming. And The lava. And the purple shit.

It's a good game, but I had to force myself to plough through the final few missions.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,107
Yeah, it gets a lot less annoying when you stop thinking of the random zombies as things to shoot and start thinking of them as boxes of whatever you need.

Playing on PS4 is gonna have a little bit of 'butt' feel to it due to the weapon switching, I won't lie.
Setting up your weapon switches ahead of time (IE, if you see Marauder, switch to Ballista, then Super Shotty so that R1 will quick swap between those two) but you're gonna spend a lot of time in the weapon wheel to get maximum value. A HUGE amount of your possible DPS in Eternal comes from swapping to another weapon during cooldown. The Super Shotgun, Rocket Launcher, and Ballista all have huge burst damage from a single shot, but huge cooldown between shots. Firing one, then immediately switching to another and firing off that shot, rinse repeat is a massive amount of DPS that can melt ANYTHING. The weapon wheel will at least remember last weapon so you can quickly use the wheel to swap to SSG and Ballista or Rocket launcher, then just R1 tab that fucker to melt stuff.

So I went back to this earlier and played about an hour, trying to play it 'properly', and I just don't think it's for me. I don't feel like I have the skills to be constantly switching weapons, leaping around trying to avoid enemy attacks while attacking them, aiming at weakpoints like the skeleton shoulder cannons or the spider tail gun, watching for chainsaw, grenade or flamethrower to recharge, etc etc. It didn't help that the area I was fighting in at the end was on top of a bunch of pillars over a lava pit and I kept falling it, which was very frustrating. I've read everyone's comments and it's fair enough that the creators wanted people to play their game in a certain way they deemed most 'fun', but I would prefer if ammo pools were 3x as large and I didn't have to worry so much about running out of ammo and using all the secondary weapons.

I'll give it another go. I don't want to write it off as it is one of my favourite genres, but if it doesn't 'click' for me soon I am thinking of taking it to the shop and trading it in for Jedi Fallen Order.

I felt the same way.

It's weird, with Doom 2016 I found the breakneck pace and intensity to be exhilarating. in Eternal I just find it exhausting.

Yeah, this too. Again, maybe it's due to my lack of skill but in Doom 2016 I felt like I could hang back and stay on top of fights more, whereas in this I feel like I'm constantly on the defensive two seconds away from death and it feels like I scrape through, but in a tiring way rather than an exhilarating way.

Why the all of sudden bump on this thread?? I wonder about the widows... lol

Yeah, that was me! And now I'm bumping again coming back with more thoughts a couple of weeks later.

Sekiro does this too. Where the other Souls games give you room to experiment, Sekiro knows exactly how it needs to be played and you absolutely cannot succeed if you fail at that style. However, the way Sekiro requires players to engage with it is so beautifully polished, so rhythmic and engaging, that it never feels like a chore. It's never a burden to ease yourself into the language of Sekiro's combat, whereas Eternal made me feel like I was just banging my head against a wall.

Yes, this is a good comparison actually. I'm terrible at parrying in these games so that's a huge part of why I stayed away from Sekiro. I know I would find it frustrating and tiresome coming from other From games to this where I have to play it in a particular way that I'm not much good at and I don't particularly enjoy.

The purple goo is the real marauder of the game.

I just found my first purple goo a little while ago. Felt like a pretty awful design choice for the sake of some rudimentary platforming.
 

FuzzyWuzzy

Prophet of Truth
Member
Apr 7, 2019
2,098
Austria
Eternal went in a very different direction, I always think of it as a first person character action game.
While I can see how it can be a great game for some, it was a dissapointment fo rme, I did not like the shift in direction and combined with the atmosphere, the camp and especially the parkour it just ended up annoying me.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,254
I thought Doom Eternal improved on the first Doom in pretty much every way. It felt more challenging/rewarding than the first one, and the platforming was really well done.

Edit- I also have to say that all these "not enough ammo" posts are baffling to me. There's more than enough ammo and chainsaw fuel around the map so that you should always be able to refill when you get low.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,689
In a lot of ways I felt like Doom Eternal really did have more in common with action games or even something like Geometry Wars than a lot of traditional first-person shooters. I really liked it for that, but I also was not big into the story in Doom 2016. The gameplay loop just felt really satisfying in Eternal, even if I found it to be quite difficult with a controller
 

Ernest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,539
So.Cal.
I loved Doom 2016, and I hated the 3 hours I spent with Eternal.
I wanted shooty shooty but the game wouldn't let me.
 

calibos

Member
Dec 13, 2017
2,022
Still raging every time I play this game. It's very frustrating for me. I think it comes down to the encounter design in some instances. Throwing a shit ton of enemies who all know where you are at all times and have Military sniper aim and relentlessly pursue you gets tiring. Add to that some instant death mechanics, getting stuck on the environment here and there and melee enemies that can pin you in a corner and kill you in less than a second and....well...Rage ensues each time I have tried to advance.

Maybe I need to start on a lower difficulty and beat it first just to feel good about it again.
 

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,924
Yeah unfortunately i really got sour over Eternal really quickly, didn't finish it.

There's an instant fun that never outstays its welcome quality to DOOM 2016 that Eternal was not able to replicate for me.

A lot of the things thrown in your way in Eternal feels like a chore. Once I realized that I gave up.
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,898
Played a couple of the first levels on gamepass and I gotta say...there's something about it that's not grabbing me. I absolutely loved Doom 2016 but this one feels weird like they are throwing too many systems at me when all I want to do is blow up demons. They made slayer weaker so that you can make him powerful but I always liked that demons are nothing to Slayer. Might bump the difficulty down and play through, it does seem like a good game maybe I just expected something slightly different or maybe it will eventually grab me.