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Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
You're enabling her racism. She is not white. It's plain as day. You also had tornak saying she can't pass. Not sure what you're angling at.

I am spanish. She is clearly mixed race. If you told me she had 100% spanish ancestors I wouldn't believe you.
r4hC8xhIwQLhySfpULBES4.jpg


It's hard to tell since the face is blurred, but I'd say she passes by far, for a "native " Spaniard. I mean, in the south of Spain many have north African and Roma ancestry and have dark skin, are those not 100% Spanish now?
Not that this matters for her being a racist piece of shit who'll soon realize her actions have consequences, regardless of being white or not.
Marius has a pair too, holy shit.
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,108
Austria
That distinction is exactly why a lot of racism has been allowed to flourish in lots of places. They might not care about the person to the point that they ignore the violent racists and don't hold them to account. There's a lot more to racism than physical harm.
Yes there is. I'm just saying we can't act as if racism is something that just stems from hatred. We need to realize all sources to fight it effectively.
If you think there is just one type of racist, then there should be one solution. But it's not that simple.
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,108
Austria
A salvadorian women referencing herself as white in Spain is just so funny lmao, no idea why would she do something like that.
It's very odd. Reminds me of my coworker, came to Austria from Bulgaria, with very dark skin, still speaks very broken German, and loves to rant against immigrants and especially refugees, and was so damn happy last election, since the right wing party she supports will keep them out.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,263
It's very odd. Reminds me of my coworker, came to Austria from Bulgaria, with very dark skin, still speaks very broken German, and loves to rant against immigrants and especially refugees, and was so damn happy last election, since the right wing party she supports will keep them out.

The thing for me is that even if this woman was blonde with blue eyes, it would be still funny, is just an issue of being latin american vs being spaniard.

Like does this woman realize that the biggest bigots in Spain (not saying they are a lot because i dont think they are) call latin americans uncultured, uncivilized, savages that destroy beautiful spanish culture? Race doesnt play much of an issue, is more cultural than anything.
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,108
Austria
The thing for me is that even if this woman was blonde with blue eyes, it would be still funny, is just an issue of being latin american vs being spaniard.

Like does this woman realize that the biggest bigots in Spain (not saying they are a lot because i dont think they are) call latin americans uncultured, uncivilized, savages that destroy beautiful spanish culture? Race doesnt play much of an issue, is more cultural than anything.
Oh obviously, her not being white is not really a big factor here.
 

chromatic9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,003
I see that this comment i made is being quoted a lot and I've also read the post from FP showing statistics stating Spain is in fact not as racist as other European countries. My view of them being racist mainly comes from how they're portrayed in the British media. In recent memory Lewis Hamilton was racially abused and mocked, England's under 19s football team received abuse and their football fans have been portrayed in a really poor light.

From this, my perception and its reputation, in the uk at least, is that Spain's nationals can be unashamedly racist.

I've seen plenty of stats showing the same thing.
UNRZPmh.png


Also there was someone quoted saying things about UK and France and hailing mixed marriages in Spain, well UK has more mixed marriages from what I can find.

Whilst on football. France and England have had mixed race and black players represent the country for 30-40 years frequently.

Check Spain's team for each tournament in the last 20-30 years, 99.9% white. 2016 full squad is all white and bananas are still thrown on to the pitch in major La Liga games.

 

Objektivity

Banned
Nov 18, 2017
1,058
r4hC8xhIwQLhySfpULBES4.jpg


It's hard to tell since the face is blurred, but I'd say she passes by far, for a "native " Spaniard. I mean, in the south of Spain many have north African and Roma ancestry and have dark skin, are those not 100% Spanish now?
Not that this matters for her being a racist piece of shit who'll soon realize her actions have consequences, regardless of being white or not.
Marius has a pair too, holy shit.

She didn't claim she was Spanish or Native. She claimed white. Not all Spaniards are white are they?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,263
I've seen plenty of stats showing the same thing.
UNRZPmh.png


Also there was someone quoted saying things about UK and France and hailing mixed marriages in Spain, well UK has more mixed marriages from what I can find.

Whilst on football. France and England have had mixed race and black players represent the country for 30-40 years frequently.

Check Spain's team for each tournament in the last 20-30 years, 99.9% white. 2016 full squad is all white and bananas are still thrown on to the pitch in major La Liga games.

What do the soccer teams have to do with it? And the banana thing only happened to Dani Alves, the dude was banned from stadium and arrested by the police.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,265
r4hC8xhIwQLhySfpULBES4.jpg


It's hard to tell since the face is blurred, but I'd say she passes by far, for a "native " Spaniard. I mean, in the south of Spain many have north African and Roma ancestry and have dark skin, are those not 100% Spanish now?
Not that this matters for her being a racist piece of shit who'll soon realize her actions have consequences, regardless of being white or not.
Marius has a pair too, holy shit.
That's not white! LMFAO, she is mixed af. Almost "mulata"
 

Tbm24

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,329
That's not white! LMFAO, she is mixed af. Almost "mulata"
In my experience with Latinos, that distinction matters a lot. That old caste system really did a number on people. The times I've heard Afro-Latino Dominicans twist themselves in pretzels to not identify and "negro" makes my head spin.

Should add these people then turn around and shit on those darker than them like it's no big deal. I honestly don't get it, but seems to just about be this situation in Spain.
 
Dec 23, 2017
8,802
what? Racism doesn't equal "hate against black people", that's not the definition whatsoever. Everyone can be a victim to racism, even snow-white christians, just look at brexit.
Also, the second part is quite a bold claim....



I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to leave the country if there are active charges against you.
What i said stands based on my experiences and people of color I know all across the world. Also in my statement I wasn't implying no other person other than black people could be exposed to and a victim of racism. What I was applying to is being accepted and treated as an equal. If you are a black person that is something very unlikely for you to have. Equality and treated as just another human.
 

Deleted member 19218

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,323
That guy is lucky, thankfully his eye didn't get slashed.

It's very odd. Reminds me of my coworker, came to Austria from Bulgaria, with very dark skin, still speaks very broken German, and loves to rant against immigrants and especially refugees, and was so damn happy last election, since the right wing party she supports will keep them out.

I met a second generation black Muslim man in London who voted for Brexit because he said "Polish people are coming and taking our jobs".

I was shocked. It's like, had it of not been for immigration his parents would not have come to England. Surely he would be a Londoner that voted to remain and be more welcoming to different communities but nope.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,265
In my experience with Latinos, that distinction matters a lot. That old caste system really did a number on people. The times I've heard Afro-Latino Dominicans twist themselves in pretzels to not identify and "negro" makes my head spin.

Should add these people then turn around and shit on those darker than them like it's no big deal. I honestly don't get it, but seems to just about be this situation in Spain.
She thinks she is white. She's chocolate milk.

There are latinos as white as any person from Canada or North US.
 

Ho_su

Member
Oct 28, 2017
62
El Salvador
I am a Salvadorian and i fell shame of this women and my contry,

Sadly a lot of peaple here are racist, blame our former President and General Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez, in 1932 to control a uprasing, he orden a masacre of all native indigenus peaple including the liberty of practic their tradiction to basicaly extinction, also the very little poblation of color afrodecendent were killed there to, again to extinction. Since then, General Martinez rewrite the culture to prise even more the "Criollos"(decendant of Spainish) and "Mestizos" (mix of Spanish) and denigrate the more indigenus population (again to control more uprasings), the high class normaly is more white than the lower class and become a racist steriotipe, even now some salvadorian say joking "look at you, so "indian" and ugly and even so you have money!", normaly we sayed the word "indio" (indian, native decendent) to denigrate, that was when i was a boy.

Now we finaly are working to improve culture and history promoving "maya culture" and have more pride to our original ethnics and to promote tourism, we are figting racisms but it will take some time.

Also, thank you Era for open me to a big word and understand other cultures, know more international news, its kind of my hobby now, and of course videogames... and my sister say "hi" to you Era, she is to shy to post here and only read Era, she ask me to write this to defend our contry... so hi Sis.

You can thank Maximiliano Hernández Martínez. Dude was hyper racist. It's funny that the country was second after haiti to abolish slavery in the region

Salvadorian Bro!, you are fan of Ramza... you have good taste.
 

GeoGonzo

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,330
Madrid, Spain
I've seen plenty of stats showing the same thing.
UNRZPmh.png

I'm not going to even quote the football part but regarding this: Project Implicit is interesting but is a poor representation of how racist a country is. Taking words from their own homesite:

These are interesting maps to look at, but there are few things to keep in mind. First, the blue-red scale is done to illustrate relative differences across states or countries. [...] which states or countries have reltively higher or lower pro-White implicit bias, not which do or do not have bias at all.
Second, the data underlying these graphs do not come from a "representative sample" of people from each area. That Project Implicit participants are volunteers who are perhaps already interested in the notion of implicit bias and almost certainly skews the sample in some ways.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
She didn't claim she was Spanish or Native. She claimed white. Not all Spaniards are white are they?
We don't have the same frame of racial thought as the US. In Europe, people think in national terms more than anything. And in Spain, there have been been darker people since the dawn of time. So the closest thing to white privilege there is in Spain would be "A clear-skinned person who passes as Spanish and isn't Roma (Regardless of ancestry, I'm talking ancestry AND adherence to culture)"
Within that category, there are no distinctions beyond talking sunscreen, no one-drop rules, none of that. So we can talk all day about her having *a bit* of black ancestry, or Native ancestry, nobody cares about that here.

So, does this woman hold white privilege in Spain? I'd say yeah. Her worst card if anything would be being a Central-American immigrant. Unlike Marius Makon, whom is very visibly black, and is thus (I imagine) thought of many times as an immigrant, even though (Ironically) he's the actual citizen.
The irony does not end here, after all the OP before the mod edits said SHE was Spanish and HE was Salvadorian.
 

Erik Twice

Member
Nov 2, 2017
685
I've seen plenty of stats showing the same thing.
Implicit association tests are of questionable validity, are not cross-cultural and the one you cite doesn't even have a representative sample.

I mean, one could believe that the United Kingdom, where UKIP got 7 million votes, the Daily Mail is the best-selling newspaper and Poles are beaten up for not being anglo enough is significantly less racist than other European countries, but I doubt it.

Check Spain's team for each tournament in the last 20-30 years, 99.9% white.
Erm, the majority of Spain is white and people born 40 years ago in Spain were overwhelmingly white. I didn't even see a black person until I was12-13 years old. You seem, to think that all countries have the same demographics, which they do not.

Spain's largest ethnicities are Latin Americans, Europeans, North African and Gypsies. Sub-sharian africans, which represent most of the "black" people living in Spain, arrived only recently, form a very small part of the population and many of them are not citizens. It would be extremely unlike for one to end up in the Spanish National team, just like it would be extremely unlikely for a person of Chinese descent to do so.
 
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eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,091
I'Also there was someone quoted saying things about UK and France and hailing mixed marriages in Spain, well UK has more mixed marriages from what I can find.

Whilst on football. France and England have had mixed race and black players represent the country for 30-40 years frequently.

Check Spain's team for each tournament in the last 20-30 years, 99.9% white. 2016 full squad is all white and bananas are still thrown on to the pitch in major La Liga games.
England and France had pretty big colonial domains until late in the 20th century (while Spain only domain was West Sahara and two cities in North Africa) which means that a lot of people could migrate there as citizens. This is most aparent in France where Algeria actually was part of the full citizens region and from where a lot of players have ancestors (for instance Zidane). Spain team being white is not mainly due to racism but rather there not being a high % of african origin spanish citizen people. This has been slowly changing and even teams such as Athletic of Bilbao which prides itself on only using players from the Basque region has black players (WHICH ARE BASQUE!) without any issue.
About the banana stuff. Yeah that is still some issue with some of our ultra fans which tend to be some of the worst more alt right part of our society but lots of work has been done to stop that thing in the last years.
 

Objektivity

Banned
Nov 18, 2017
1,058
User Banned (2 Days): Personal attacks against another member + inflammatory commentary
We don't have the same frame of racial thought as the US. In Europe, people think in national terms more than anything. And in Spain, there have been been darker people since the dawn of time. So the closest thing to white privilege there is in Spain would be "A clear-skinned person who passes as Spanish and isn't Roma (Regardless of ancestry, I'm talking ancestry AND adherence to culture)"
Within that category, there are no distinctions beyond talking sunscreen, no one-drop rules, none of that. So we can talk all day about her having *a bit* of black ancestry, or Native ancestry, nobody cares about that here.

So, does this woman hold white privilege in Spain? I'd say yeah. Her worst card if anything would be being a Central-American immigrant. Unlike Marius Makon, whom is very visibly black, and is thus (I imagine) thought of many times as an immigrant, even though (Ironically) he's the actual citizen.
The irony does not end here, after all the OP before the mod edits said SHE was Spanish and HE was Salvadorian.

I'm assuming you're white, I find it really peculiar that you so badly want to claim her as one of your own, that is to say 'White'. Well, you win this racist POS is white just like you enjoy your pyrrhic victory.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
I'm assuming you're white, I find it really peculiar that you so badly want to claim her as one of your own, that is to say 'White'. Well, you win this racist POS is white just like you enjoy your pyrrhic victory.
It's not a victory because I'm not fighting anyone, and it's not phyrric because you were banned. And I think this is an important thing to clarify, she feels enabled to attack black people and defend her "whiteness" because she sees her whiteness is acknowledged and benefits from it. She's white enough that she very strongly identifies as white and is eager to act upon it.
She obviously does not benefit so much from her whiteness as she thought she would though.

For the record, yes I'm white. I can't tan. She's not "one of my own" though. And I don't see why you'd get offended at someone explaining how race works in a country you don't seem to understand.
 

chromatic9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,003
England and France had pretty big colonial domains until late in the 20th century (while Spain only domain was West Sahara and two cities in North Africa) which means that a lot of people could migrate there as citizens. This is most aparent in France where Algeria actually was part of the full citizens region and from where a lot of players have ancestors (for instance Zidane). Spain team being white is not mainly due to racism but rather there not being a high % of african origin spanish citizen people. This has been slowly changing and even teams such as Athletic of Bilbao which prides itself on only using players from the Basque region has black players (WHICH ARE BASQUE!) without any issue.
About the banana stuff. Yeah that is still some issue with some of our ultra fans which tend to be some of the worst more alt right part of our society but lots of work has been done to stop that thing in the last years.

Demographics are pretty similar between UK and Spain, 2-3% black population so that doesn't explain it. Also if we go back to the 2000s or 1990s for UK then the percentages match Spain currently yet UK and France still had a diverse line up back then and Spain hasn't.

Erm, the majority of Spain is white and people born 40 years ago in Spain were overwhelmingly white. I didn't even see a black person until I was12-13 years old. You seem, to think that all countries have the same demographics, which they do not.

Spain's largest ethnicities are Latin Americans, Europeans, North African and Gypsies. Sub-sharian africans, which represent most of the "black" people living in Spain, arrived only recently, form a very small part of the population and many of them are not citizens. It would be extremely unlike for one to end up in the Spanish National team, just like it would be extremely unlikely for a person of Chinese descent to do so.

Erm, UK is mostly white and was even whiter in the 1990s and 2000s. Black population demographics for both regions are about 2-3% today and UK would've been matching Spain's current demographics during the 2000s.
 
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GeoGonzo

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,330
Madrid, Spain
Demographics are pretty similar between UK and Spain, 2-3% black population so that doesn't explain it. Also if we go back to the 2000s or 1990s for UK then the percentages match Spain currently yet UK and France still had a diverse line up back then and Spain hasn't.
You are doubling down on the dumbest argument and presenting very questionable data. I have little doubt you aren't arguing in good faith and you're simply scrambling to justify your prejudiced view of us.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,263
Demographics are pretty similar between UK and Spain, 2-3% black population so that doesn't explain it. Also if we go back to the 2000s or 1990s for UK then the percentages match Spain currently yet UK and France still had a diverse line up back then and Spain hasn't.



Erm, UK is mostly white and was even whiter in the 1990s and 2000s. Black population demographics for both regions are about 2-3% today and UK would've been matching Spain's current demographics during the 2000s.

Where did you find the data for Spain? I searched in spanish and couldn't find anything.

Still, your claim is really dumb, Spain has had black players in the past, but if they don't have more how can they play them? If you look at the spanish teams in la liga they are definitely not scared of signing black players, and now i remembered Serge Ibaka (although he is a basketball player).
 

chromatic9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,003
Where did you find the data for Spain? I searched in spanish and couldn't find anything.

Still, your claim is really dumb, Spain has had black players in the past, but if they don't have more how can they play them? If you look at the spanish teams in la liga they are definitely not scared of signing black players, and now i remembered Serge Ibaka (although he is a basketball player).

Spain is said to have around 1 million, which is over 2%. UK is 3% and was 2% before.

I'm not really trying to claim anything large. Someone else brought up the football stuff with Spanish fans chanting at black English players in recent years. People have been very defensive about suggestions of racism in Spain. Also I didn't suggest clubs/owners/managers/scouts are scared of signing black players.

A league match in Spain was recently stopped due to monkey chants
https://www.thelocal.es/20160822/referee-stops-spanish-league-match-over-monkey-calls
There's more reports of chants in Spain that I won't link involving Neymar several times, Marcelo several times, Diop, Mario Balotelii, Eto'o. I've also seen swastikas flashed in the stands occasionally. Not sure if these are aimed at players. A camera caught one being folded out and back in again, maybe it was for the camera?
 
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nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,128
What disgusting behaviour...She is a horrible person...I feel sorry that the guy had to be put up with that, but he is better off than her at least. With an attitude like that...