How would you feel if Square set up Sora and Riku to be in a releationship?

[Rob2K19]

Lol yeah I guess he can seem that way. Sora is 16 in kh3 believe it or not.

Click to shrink...

Why do people keep saying this? I have yet to see any official indication of this. Sora was 15 in KH2 and KH3 is not much longer after KH2. In fact, based on when he first arrives in Twilight Town in KH3, it sounds like he was last there very recently.

Click to shrink...

He's just a Disney + Anime character rolled up into 1 person. He's 14-16 and Riku is 15-17.

Click to shrink...

Sora is 15 in DDD. As stated in the Memorial Ultimania that released in 2014.

Nomura has stated many times that KH3 begins IMMEDIATELY after 3D/DDD (more specifically 0.2, which is immediately after DDD). He also said Sora's body in KH3 is the same as it was in KH2.

The timeline in the KH series has been shown off multiple times in Famitsu and Dengeki magazines when 2.8 was announced in 2015. The gap between KH2 to Coded to DDD is on par to the gap between the end of KH1 and start of CoM (In the Days Ultimania timeline, it shows Day 16 to Day 24), which was stated as "IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING".

At one point in 'KHII', Ansem the Wise escapes from the world of darkness. This time he has once again descended into the world of darkness. At what point in time does this happen?

Nomura: After 'KHII'. When he stopped the Organisation's plans in 'KHII', he was caught up in an explosion and blown into the world of darkness. The line where he says, "I first met him one year ago," is referring to before 'he' went to sleep - that is, it's referring to the time of 'Chain of Memories'. It doesn't mean this is one year after 'KHII'.

Click to shrink...

It is still 11 years since BBS.

Lastly, play KH3 and read the character bio's.

PS: In the Japanese version of the 3DS version of DDD, the character bio's regarding Terra, Ven, and Aqua stated "more than a decade ago". In the US version, it stated "a dozen years ago" for one of them, which is incorrect. It was fixed in the 2.8 version of DDD and they have remained consistent with that fix in later games.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

But riku already has mickey though :

 

[OwOtacon]

TLOU 2.

Click to shrink...

I would bet money they will kill Ellie's girlfriend in some graphic way, knowing Naughty Dog's history with women.

On topic -

Spoiler: end spoilers for KHIII

They went too hard on the Sora x Kairi angle for me to believe this could ever happen, but it would sure as fuck be more narratively convincing. Granted, that's because you could get a random word generator to do a better arc for Kairi than what she got.

 

[NoKisum]

Wait, are you implying that Sora and Riku aren't dating in the end? So they've been leading us on for over 15 years?

 

[Toxi]

I would bet money they will kill Ellie's girlfriend in some graphic way, knowing Naughty Dog's history with women.

Click to shrink...

I mean, I'm expecting her to die in a graphic way, but more because it's The Last of Us.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

Sora is 15 in DDD. As stated in the Memorial Ultimania that released in 2014.

Nomura has stated many times that KH3 begins IMMEDIATELY after 3D/DDD (more specifically 0.2, which is immediately after DDD). He also said Sora's body in KH3 is the same as it was in KH2.

The timeline in the KH series has been shown off multiple times in Famitsu and Dengeki magazines when 2.8 was announced in 2015. The gap between KH2 to Coded to DDD is on par to the gap between the end of KH1 and start of CoM (In the Days Ultimania timeline, it shows Day 16 to Day 24), which was stated as "IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING".



It is still 11 years since BBS.

Lastly, play KH3 and read the character bio's.

PS: In the Japanese version of the 3DS version of DDD, the character bio's regarding Terra, Ven, and Aqua stated "more than a decade ago". In the US version, it stated "a dozen years ago" for one of them, which is incorrect. It was fixed in the 2.8 version of DDD and they have remained consistent with that fix in later games.

Click to shrink...

Regardless, it doesn't really matter. You can totally headcanon Sora being 16 by the middle of KH3.

It doesn't really stipulate how close to his birthday he is by the beginning of KH 2.

His birthday could be 2 months from when he wakes up and he could be 16 That's what I meant.-shrugs-

 

[Aly]

But riku already has mickey though :

Click to shrink...

This. Era you disgust me. Riku and Mickey are OTP.

 

[Mesoian]

On topic -

Spoiler: end spoilers for KHIII

They went too hard on the Sora x Kairi angle for me to believe this could ever happen, but it would sure as fuck be more narratively convincing. Granted, that's because you could get a random word generator to do a better arc for Kairi than what she got.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

I haven't seen a "don't worry they're not gay" swerve that fierce since Toriko.

 

[Plywood]

It's not enough for Kairi to be useless for the entire series and then get fridged with little to no redemption. She should also get dumped.

 

[lumenflower]

Some of these replies are WILD.

Sora and Riku have had more chemistry in DDD alone than Sora and Kairi have had in literally every single KH game combined.

But okay, sure, guys being dudes, etc.

 

[Zacmortar]

Then why don't you ask for one of the characters who doesn't have an established love interest from Day 1 to be gay then?

Spoiler

Why don't we see how Lea and Isa are doing?

Click to shrink...

Because theres been over a decade of romantic writing contradicting the first game in the meantime

 

[Apollo]

I would be exceedingly on board with this.

 

[Rob2K19]

Regardless, it doesn't really matter. You can totally headcanon Sora being 16 by the middle of KH3.

It doesn't really stipulate how close to his birthday he is by the beginning of KH 2.

His birthday could be 2 months from when he wakes up and he could be 16 That's what I meant.-shrugs-

Click to shrink...

People like you are the reason incorrect info keeps spreading. Then when someone with correct info gives it out, it is followed with a dumb response. smh Keep your headcanon to yourself.

 

[ElMexiMerican]

When I was in 4th grade a friend convinced me there was actually a scene in the first game where Riku and Sora lay in bed together and share a kiss.

Make it happen, SE.

 

[Orbit]

I wish, but:

Spoiler: KH3

They obviously split Kairi into two people (Namine) so Sora and Riku can both get with their childhood friend to prevent a love triangle.

Click to shrink...

you are SO right! when you know who went to get you know who in the end at radiant garden, i could totally feel something there but yep i think that is where the story is going...which is creepy.

 

[Terraforce]

People can't be friends without being in a relationship now? what

I don't see how you can spin their interactions into "subtle romance." Especially when Nomura has been so blatant with pairing Sora with Kairi.

 

[lumenflower]

Because theres been over a decade of romantic writing contradicting the first game in the meantime

Click to shrink...

I feel like some of these replies would be very different if riku was female

Its just a feeling I have.
Just a small one.

 

[Deleted member 4532]

I mean I'd be fine with it and obviously there are a lot of people who'd like that.

But personally I like Sora/Kairi. Give Terra a boyfriend.

Click to shrink...

Nice.

 

[Gold Arsene]

Because theres been over a decade of romantic writing contradicting the first game in the meantime

Click to shrink...

Look if you think Sora and Riku are into each other fine. There are plenty of parings I like that aren't going to be canon.

But that's clearly not the direction they intend to go.

Like I said if you want something to happen in the actual series canon it's best to hope for some other pairing.

 

[carlsojo]

Based on how he treats Kairi in 3, I assume Sora is asexual at this point.

 

[ElMexiMerican]

I always thought they were setting up a threeway relationship between Sora/Riku/Kairi.

And Aqua/Terra/Ventus.

And Roxas/Axel/Xion.

And Hayner/Pence/Olette.

Click to shrink...

I thought that was supposed to be a sixway?

 

[Gold Arsene]

I feel like some of these replies would be very different if riku was female

Its just a feeling I have.
Just a small one.

Click to shrink...

Do you think the writing would indicate that Sora was less interested in Kairi?

Because all that would happen in this scenario would be Riku would be Rukia and Kairi Orihime. Yeah some people skeptical now would probably think Sora was interested in Riku and that's sad. But who Sora is intended to be with likely wouldn't change.

Anyway I'm bored so some more fanfic charts from Phantom Statistician on tumblr.

 

[newmoneytrash]

I'd say Riku is problematic for grooming Sora

 

[JuicyPlayer]

I think that would be pretty cool but I can just see the toxic backlash.

 

[lumenflower]

Do you think the writing would indicate that Sora was less interested in Kairi?

Because all that would happen in this scenario would be Riku would be Rukia and Kairi Orihime. Yeah some people skeptical now would probably think Sora was interested in Riku and that's sad. But who Sora is intended to be with likely wouldn't change.

Click to shrink...

My problem personally is I feel the writing does a horrible job of showing the relationship with Sora and Kairi.

Like sure, every once in a while Sora is like "oh yeah Kairi", but they barely talk, they barely interact. Kairi's barely a character outside of her liking Sora. You're basically being told they super totally like each other, but it BARELY feels that way.

Meanwhile, at least in my opinion, Sora and Riku actually feel like they have a good, well developed relationship. Most everything Riku does is for Sora. The scene in DDD where Sora and Riku's sound ideas blend together to form "Dearly Beloved" while they fondly talk about each other is the closest KH has gotten to romance outside of Sokai's "they totally like each other don't worry about it".

And some people dismiss that because "wow can't guys be friends anymore!!!1!1!1! you can be close without it being romantic!!".

Like, so? Can't a male and female main character exist without being shoved into some halfhearted romance plot? Can't people be close friends without being romantically involved? Just lmao.

 

[logash]

Sora is 15 in DDD. As stated in the Memorial Ultimania that released in 2014.

Nomura has stated many times that KH3 begins IMMEDIATELY after 3D/DDD (more specifically 0.2, which is immediately after DDD). He also said Sora's body in KH3 is the same as it was in KH2.

The timeline in the KH series has been shown off multiple times in Famitsu and Dengeki magazines when 2.8 was announced in 2015. The gap between KH2 to Coded to DDD is on par to the gap between the end of KH1 and start of CoM (In the Days Ultimania timeline, it shows Day 16 to Day 24), which was stated as "IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING".



It is still 11 years since BBS.

Lastly, play KH3 and read the character bio's.

PS: In the Japanese version of the 3DS version of DDD, the character bio's regarding Terra, Ven, and Aqua stated "more than a decade ago". In the US version, it stated "a dozen years ago" for one of them, which is incorrect. It was fixed in the 2.8 version of DDD and they have remained consistent with that fix in later games.

Click to shrink...

Makes sense. I wasn't really committed to him being 16. I was just spit balling after a quick google search and thinking about that scene of Ansem in the realm of darkness. Still, shipping 15 year olds is a normal thing in fandoms. I mean people were shipping Harry Potter characters in book 1 and they were 11!

 

[Leeness]

Make them canon!

Spoiler

 

[McScroggz]

You people give me a migraine sometimes

this is bordering on "no homo"

Click to shrink...

"You people"

Wanting gay relationships or LGBTQ characters to be properly represented in media rather than attaching subtext to characters that display some feminine or stereotypically "gay" characteristics or interests equates to "no homo"? Especially in a series where the main character has a pretty clear romantic interest in a prominent female character.

Sorry that I don't think people who identify as gay or queer or whatever sexual or self-identity that they are comfortable as should have to stoop to forcing subtext onto heterosexual characters in 2019. A decade ago, or two decades, or whenever there was a severe lack of representation and being anything other than heterosexual was very discriminated against and taboo and there was little art, especially mainstream, for them to see and be inspired by or to feel like they are part of a subculture gaining mainstream acceptance. We definitely aren't there now, but I don't think we have to force ideas of sexuality of characters where it just doesn't fit. I don't know how to say this without sounding like I'm grandstanding because that's not the impression I want to impart, but for a lot of people self-identity and accepting who you are is a very difficult thing to overcome that even a lot of people who are openly gay or trans still struggle with - so I find it kind of offputting for people who struggle with that specific problem to then project onto non-ambiguous characters.

But if you genuinely have a headache I hope you can take some Advil and feel better.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

I'm gay so I'd love that but we all know that some lines are just unintentionally gay

 

[Deleted member 3924]

I thought they were children? did they do a timeskip at some point

 

[Woozies]

I'd say Riku is problematic for grooming Sora

Click to shrink...

My guy, what?

 

[pezzie]

I'm with the guys shipping Riku x Mickey

You can just see how much he loves that mouse.

 

[Meelow]

I'm arguing that they were implying something between Saix and Axel during that one cutscene.

Click to shrink...

True, with Axel/Lea they always have hints that he is into men. That scene with Isa and him always wanting to be close to Roxas is something, you could say it's just friendship but he never shows the same type of feelings for Xion.

 

[Deleted member 35011]

I think the story is pretty clearly going for Kairi, it's just funny because they do a terrible job at ports trying their romance but a very good job at portraying Sora and Riku's friendship.

So the end result is something along the lines of "...okay I know this isn't what you meant, but holy shit it comes across like it sometimes."

 

[Crumbo]

Guess two guys aren't allowed to be friends without it needing to be more than that?

 

[Deleted member 21411]

I've been hoping for this since I was 12

 

[Pekola]

Claims that Sora x Riku would be forced are ironic when they have the most intimate relationship in the series whereas Sora x Kairi is based on not much more than one character being a boy and the other being a girl.

Click to shrink...

Saying Sora and Riku would be forced but Sora and Kairi aren't causes me to make a thinking emoji face.

Two guys can just be good bros, sure, but why are male main character and secondary female character never extended that same "they're just good friends" courtesy. Man the developments in KHIII better be wild.

Click to shrink...

Thank goodness I'm not the only bringing this up. I thought I'd entered crazy town for a second with some of these replies.

Between the "eww shipping!" And the "can't guys just be friends?" or "forced ideas of sexuality", it's such a doozy.

 

[Deleted member 46429]

Sorry that I don't think people who identify as gay or queer or whatever sexual or self-identity that they are comfortable as should have to stoop to forcing subtext onto heterosexual characters in 2019. A decade ago, or two decades, or whenever there was a severe lack of representation and being anything other than heterosexual was very discriminated against and taboo and there was little art, especially mainstream, for them to see and be inspired by or to feel like they are part of a subculture gaining mainstream acceptance.

Click to shrink...

lmao.

Please point the game out that has a canon gay m/m couple in the lead. You're either dealing with a couple where one partner is dead or otherwise MIA; a couple where one partner is a player avatar, e.g. Sheppard (which overlaps with playersexuality which itself has issues); or you're going into obscure corners of steam for a indie visual novel or something of similar obscurity. Or to put it succintly: even year 2019, gaming's lgbtq+ representation is still kind of shit.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

As for me? I'd be happy if Soriku were canon. As a gay man, I'd actually like to have some canon gay couples in the limelight because, well, I feel they're lacking. That said, with a game like Kingdom Hearts it's hard to tell if any of the ho yay was implied or just a result of the game's titular awkward writing, but I certainly prefer the gay interpretation.

 

[Imran]

I always think about Kingdom Hearts 2, where Sora basically had to awkwardly hug Kairi but fell to his knees and cried while holding Riku's hand when he realized he was there

I don't know if Sora belongs with Riku but the Kairi thing feels incredibly forced. He had better chemistry with Rapunzel.

 

[Celine.D.Sykes]

Would be great and brave, but I doubt they will.

 

[McScroggz]

lmao.

Please point the game out that has a canon gay m/m couple in the lead. You're either dealing with a couple where one partner is dead or otherwise MIA; a couple where one partner is a player avatar, e.g. Sheppard (which overlaps with playersexuality which itself has issues); or you're going into obscure corners of steam for a indie visual novel or something of similar obscurity. Or to put it succintly: even year 2019, gaming's lgbtq+ representation is still kind of shit.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

As for me? I'd be happy if Soriku were canon. As a gay man, I'd actually like to have some canon gay couples in the limelight because, well, they're I feel they're lacking. That said, with a game like Kingdom Hearts it's hard to tell if any of the ho yay was implied or just a result of the game's titular awkward writing, but I certainly prefer the gay interpretation.

Click to shrink...

I said there's still a lot of improvement for LGBTQ representation. If anything Kingdom Hearts, as much as I love it, is a pretty regressive representation of women. Look at Kairi. I know people want to minimize the pretty obvious romantic intent behind her relationship with Sora, but that's because she's been relegated to a literal princess that needed to be rescued and then largely forgotten because she was no longer in direct danger and she wasn't actively playing a role in furthering the plot of Kingdom Hearts.

Arguably the most prevalent theme of the series is friendship, and I don't think it's a stretch to imagine why Riku - an interesting counterpoint to Sora - would continue to play a role as Sora's friend and fellow Keyblade weilder while Kairi is sidelined because the series isn't about romance. I know it's simplistic but when you look at the writing in Kingdom Hearts it's about as subtle as fireworks.

Ultimately the reason I'm against this isn't because I don't want gay male relationships in my games - I want the opposite actually. But in a series where the protagonist and the most prominent female character have an intended romantic connection, I think it's does a disservice to the writers and the LGBTQ community to force a homosexual relationship where it was clearly not intended. To me either make genuinely ambiguous characters like Lea and Isa canonically homosexual or what have you, or make new characters and have them be good representatives for gay characters.

If it boils down to make two characters gay that weren't meant to be because it's 2019 and there's still not a good enough representation of that in mainstream fiction versus adhering to the obvious intent of the writer to have a heterosexual relationship, then morally sure, I'm okay with it. There needs to be more LGBTQ representation in all forms of entertainment, especially video games, but I stil think there are better ways than turning existing unambiguous, or at least strongly hinted at and fairly clearly intended heterosexual characters gay. That just flames the conservative people over something that narratively isn't justified.

It's like turning Lara Croft into a black woman. I don't have a problem with it, but I would prefer a new character that can shine on their own terms and strengths. It's not a matter of definitely against or definitely for, but a more nuanced "I don't think the writing supports it and I don't like the message it sends of forcing homosexual characterizations on characters to appease a growing minority but I feel strongly about minorities such as that getting better representation so I wouldn't get upset. I would just prefer a better way."

 

[i-Jest]

I've only ever seen them as really close friends, brothers pretty much.

 

[Deleted member 35077]

Will never happen, but the Data Sora x Data Riku is a ship I can actually see happening. The chemistry is already there, and Data Sora has even went inside Data Riku

 

[JCal]

The chemistry is already there, and Data Sora has even went inside Data Riku

Click to shrink...

Well, real Riku has gone inside real Sora.

 

[Village]

Spoiler

I haven't seen a "don't worry they're not gay" swerve that fierce since Toriko.

Click to shrink...

The manga?
What happened?

 

[enkaisu]

I need Sora/Kairi closure.

 

[Nightwing Fan Shan]

I'd commend them for it since literally every KH thing I've seen, including 3, has done a great job at portraying a caring relationship between Sora and Riku. Whereas the Sora and Kairi romance is about as interesting as stale bread at this point.

 

[Mesoian]

The manga?
What happened?

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

Toriko and Komatsu have the biggest bromance this side of Shonen Jump for nearly 5 years, then before the final battle, both of them go up to women who like them who they really hadn't shown the time of day to prior, and ask them to marry them. Of course the women say yes, but it's INCREDIBLY left field and was likely done to curb the incredibly high percentage of people shipping Komatsu and Toriko together.

Kind of like Sora and Riku, ESPECIALLY after KH2.

Like, real talk, people who are like "naw, they're just friends" need to go back and watch the scenes in KH2 when Sora finds/rescues Kairi, and then when Sora finds/rescues Riku.

It's like fucking night and day. There is DRAMATICALLY more romantic subtext between Sora and Riku than there ever was between Sora and Kairi, which is really only present at the very beginning of KH1 and towards the end of KH3. Sora and Riku god damn near a full game devoted to their bromance.

 

[Village]

Spoiler

Toriko and Komatsu have the biggest bromance this side of Shonen Jump for nearly 5 years, then before the final battle, both of them go up to women who like them who they really hadn't shown the time of day to prior, and ask them to marry them. Of course the women say yes, but it's INCREDIBLY left field and was likely done to curb the incredibly high percentage of people shipping Komatsu and Toriko together.

Kind of like Sora and Riku, ESPECIALLY after KH2.

Click to shrink...

" DON'T WORRY THEY ARE THE STRAIT "

The author wasn't fond of the ship? Maybe an editor decision?

 

[Mesoian]

" DON'T WORRY THEY ARE THE STRAIT "

The author wasn't fond of the ship? Maybe an editor decision?

Click to shrink...

There will never be an openly gay main protagonist in a jump manga in our lifetime. Japan ain't ready for that. Well get more Okama shit, that's as close as it'll get.