Oh great, now it's time we do that thing where we pretend dissenting opinions of TLJ are rare or forum exclusive because "RT rating, cinema score and box office".
Okay, but people cheered Episode 9 in my theater so ... stalemate?
Has the reception to Endgame proven TLJ critics right?
- Thread starter Puck Beaverton
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You can dislike a movie without stating it as a fact that it's bad and and the discussion should end there.
Leave them be, man, they'll need the time to workshop their explanations for when Ep IX performs worse than TLJ.
TLJ was better than anything ever created in the MCU
Small vocal group of upset people don't change reality tbh
Star Wars, even at its best, is some weak ass shit compared to all the other IPs that we have in the silver screen today.
And the Last Jedi suffers from a seemingly early draft script that needed more time in the oven.
Oh, and all those crazy manchildren that took over TLJ discussions? There are some of them making noise over Captain Marvel and Hulk never getting a rematch Thanos.
And the Last Jedi suffers from a seemingly early draft script that needed more time in the oven.
Oh, and all those crazy manchildren that took over TLJ discussions? There are some of them making noise over Captain Marvel and Hulk never getting a rematch Thanos.
He or she stated an opinion. I could say that exact statement he or she did, but replace bad with good and you wouldn't take any issue with it.
I can also like a movie and recognize that it's divisive whereas every time it comes up you go "LALALALAALALALA most people liked it, LALAALALALALALALAA, I can't hear you."
I mean, only one of these conclusions are based on things that aren't "because I said so", and it isn't the dissenters'.
If you read FB/Reddit comments you'll see a lot of fans that are quite unhappy with some endgame decisions. I don't think it was a safe movie, for that audience anyways. I'll spoiler some criticisms I saw
This all of course ties back to the audience that wants to see Jedi Jesus Luke bench press a Death Star vs the audience that wants Luke to be a hobo that drinks milk straight from the teat.
- Many hate Fat Thor and think he was robbed of his badassery
- They were annoyed that Hulk never gets to rematch Thanos, and that Hulk himself was basically killed off-screen
- Some felt Bucky deserved the shield over Falcon
- Of course the end fate of Cap is divisive
- They were annoyed that Hulk never gets to rematch Thanos, and that Hulk himself was basically killed off-screen
- Some felt Bucky deserved the shield over Falcon
- Of course the end fate of Cap is divisive
This all of course ties back to the audience that wants to see Jedi Jesus Luke bench press a Death Star vs the audience that wants Luke to be a hobo that drinks milk straight from the teat.
Yeah, I saw it last night. None of the trailers really got a reaction, other than Star Wars. The entire crowd was visibly and audibly excited.
The Last Jedi has more thematic resonance and meaningful character development than Endgame could dream of.
Spoon-feeding the audience what they supposedly want is fine, but it doesn't discount the impact a movie like TLJ has.
Spoon-feeding the audience what they supposedly want is fine, but it doesn't discount the impact a movie like TLJ has.
It is a rule on the internet that the longer a thread goes it'll eventually end up with TLJ conversation.
Clearly paid for Disney shills who don't understand that Rey is a Mary Sue.
Endgame isn't safe per say but it does deliver the fanwank moments that people wanted. Which is ok, those moments are hype as hell and fun to watch.
The Last Jedi does not do this. People wanted the badass Luke that single handedly destroys The First Order with superior mastery of the force and a lightsaber, and those people end up becoming Rey by proxy, getting shit on by their hero who tells them to stop being dumb and calling out their specific fantasy as dumb. Then the movie appears to give them what they want with a beautifully cinematic view of Luke facing all the AT-AT's, then pulls out the rug from under them again. Same with Poe and Finn, who end up getting so many people killed and make everything worse because they don't trust Leia and Holdo. They fail at everything because they try to be the badass heroes who think they know more than the actual leaders of the resistance. It really is a damn fantastic movie. I just rewatched it yesterday, it remains GOAT Star Wars.
There is entertainment to be gained from both approaches.
The Last Jedi does not do this. People wanted the badass Luke that single handedly destroys The First Order with superior mastery of the force and a lightsaber, and those people end up becoming Rey by proxy, getting shit on by their hero who tells them to stop being dumb and calling out their specific fantasy as dumb. Then the movie appears to give them what they want with a beautifully cinematic view of Luke facing all the AT-AT's, then pulls out the rug from under them again. Same with Poe and Finn, who end up getting so many people killed and make everything worse because they don't trust Leia and Holdo. They fail at everything because they try to be the badass heroes who think they know more than the actual leaders of the resistance. It really is a damn fantastic movie. I just rewatched it yesterday, it remains GOAT Star Wars.
There is entertainment to be gained from both approaches.
*Walks up to the thread*
Fat Thor made 100 times more sense than Luke 'I literally don't give a shit that billions of people just died' Skywalker
*Runs away*
Wonderful post. It's okay to enjoy both approaches. No need to dunk on either Endgame or TLJ.
Have no idea. All I know is very very bad, and the other one was good.
The more I think about it, Poe really wasn't that unreasonable. If Finn and Rose didn't call attention to themselves in that casino, it would've worked. The problem is the "getting all those people killed" won't really matter in the next one and didn't seem to matter in terms of everyone's attitude toward them by the end of TLJ.
On paper it works, but in execution there's definitely a scene or two missing somewhere on the script.
I mean critical reception to TLJ was great. A small portion of fans shit on it like it murdered their baby (Luke was overrated and TLJ was a believable continuation of his character)
Someone said MCU is the new Star Wars and some people didn't like that and others want to prove it true.
Guardians is the new Star Wars is what I take umbridge with, but no need to die on that hill.
This insistence kills me.
it's been well past a year since tlj released. this is just sad. move on with your lives, nerds
When he/she said "people", he meant the one or two people next to/near him while the rest of the theater approved, just like in mine.
I am more sick of TLJ critics being painted as just people that want certain plot points and hate the movie cause it wasn't what they wanted. TLJ is a messy movie for many many reasons, it being subversive (which it's not, I don't understand this love for a movie that is super safe in the end) is not a reason to hate or love the movie.
Endgame is a bit uneven with its pacing but it does a great job of hitting all the right notes when it has too. It's also the end, which means it gets to hit the climax, something TLJ doesn't get to do so it's a bit unfair.
Endgame is a bit uneven with its pacing but it does a great job of hitting all the right notes when it has too. It's also the end, which means it gets to hit the climax, something TLJ doesn't get to do so it's a bit unfair.
yes, but honestly, at this point, I just want people to shut the fuck up about TLJ and move on. You have Rise of Skywalker coming soon, so let's see how that turns out.
The whole plan fell to pieces because Poe didn't believe in working on a need to know basis. He shouldn't blurt out what's going on when he doesn't know who's in the room on the other side.
People's issue wasn't that TLJ didn't play it safe, they just didn't like how they played it. Its got a very strange tone, bad comedy, weak story for Finn, etc. Its really annoying that TLJ won't just allow people to dislike it, there's always gotta be a catch.
Infinity War the same year didn't play it safe, and was much more satisfying to the masses. I think its a better comparison to TLJ than Endgame if you have to make a comparison.
But honestly, there's no "proving" anything. Its non-sequitur
Infinity War the same year didn't play it safe, and was much more satisfying to the masses. I think its a better comparison to TLJ than Endgame if you have to make a comparison.
But honestly, there's no "proving" anything. Its non-sequitur
I mean to be fair, people can spout off RT user scores, or the metacritic user score, but when you look at IMBD that has more user votes than both those other two combined and suddenly the score jumps by about 30-40% depending, it seems pretty clear that it's not off the mark.
Because there was no reason for them to be working on a "need to know basis" other than plot contrivance - which is TLJ's biggest sin.
1/3 of the movie - that having to do with Luke, Kylo, and Rey, is good - if a little weird on the part of what happened to Luke.
The other 2/3 - With Poe vs Holdo, Finn and Rose? Executed about as well as a day time soap opera - with all the force drama and idiocy that entails.
Holdo not wanting to tell Poe the plan looks pretty stupid when literally anyone else on the ship could have told him - or he could have used his own eyes and noticed shuttles being loaded - it's not like she barred him from the hangar. But because RJ had no idea what to do with Poe (or Finn and Rose for that matter) he needed this forced conflict and artificial drama.
I wasn't talking about Holdo, I was referencing Poe's discussion with Rose and Finn in front of DJ. That's how DJ was able to sell them out when they got caught.
But at a certain point, it's apparent that he wasn't just upset that he didn't know the plan, he was upset no one knew and was literally begging for any sort of encouragement or hope that it was all going to work out. Which is why he was able to get people to help with the mutiny. Otherwise he's just on a ship waiting to die. Holdo's initial speech is cool, but there's a reason why he had a giant "that's it" face. All he had to go off of was "we must survive, back to your stations".
I was team Holdo initially, but the more I rewatch the movie now, I really can't blame Poe.
The 50/50 resetera poll on TLJ already broke them, have mercy
My mistake.
Although you can argue said hair brained scheme would not have been necessary if...bah I don't even want bother.
I wasn't discussing Holdo.
I was the opposite, started with Team Poe then went Team Holdo lol
Oh absolutely. Last Jedi is far superior as a film, Endgame is the better masturbatory material for fans.
the reception to endgame vs. tlj should tell you something about the star wars fandom, if anything
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