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Moara

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,845
Is Thoma's shield even viable at all? Genuinely asking because I pulled my first one on this Kaz banner.

Damn that was nice.

I've been using Thoma with Hu Tao since I got him to C6 this banner. It's been working pretty well, think it has the best uptime out of any shield in the game outside of Zhongli, though it takes some build up to make it pretty strong

Though without C6 I'm not sure he's worth using since he doesn't offer much else.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,073
It seems like they're even trying to avoid reruns for him and even units that resemble him.
He is tied with Xiao, Venti, and Childe for most reruns, with rumors that he might have another.
Everyone in theorycrafting says he's not meta, but if you've played the game long enough you know that he will always be meta. Although ironically enough I think Yelan actually makes him meta now, with Hu Tao / Xingqiu / Yelan / Zhongli - and you use his shred because it's universal and you can't swirl both elements due to excess Hydro application.
He is still meta because Hu Tao uses him, but a lot of other carries don't need him because they have built in interruption resistance so having a good healer is basically the same as Zhongli for them, but that healer might be providing better elemental application.

Is Thoma's shield even viable at all? Genuinely asking because I pulled my first one on this Kaz banner.
Considering encounters like triple kenki make 4* shields in general not viable, not really. He is good when you need to run extra sources of pyro damage for floors that have cryo shielded enemies though.
Hydro Resonance is similar in that it's really only worth it with a Barbara or Kokomi around, otherwise it's hard to tell it even exists.
Hydro Resonance doesn't even help Kokomi outside of clam set and amount healed, since it boosts incoming healing and not healing bonus so she doesn't get an extra damage bonus from it.
 

Actinium

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,870
California
Gorou's crystalize vacuuming burst effect should just be how crystalize always works, then change his talent into healing whenever you pick up a crystalize crystal instead so he fills that semi healer role even at c0 and is an actual stand alone healer at c4 instead of a semi healer.
 

Viken

Teyvat Traveler
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,613
Only got 34*, I'm lacking the talent to beat it any faster.
Once I get Raiden and Sara up to par I'll try that Raiden comp. My Raiden is still terrible.
 

Peradam

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,785
Duos done. Knocking the snake down is too inconsistent and the cooldown thing Jim mentioned is super annoying, my condolences to Childe mains.

yDPI57b.jpg
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Are you holding your skill when you want a higher range pull?
Yeah, but Ventis actually holds enemies in place for easy kills. Like for Venti to hold a shield maiden up in the air for Ayakas super to just wreck them is so much more superior to what Kazuha does. Or just holding enemies in general. Kazuha groups ok I suppose but they all get knocked away immediately after.
 

xendless

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Jan 23, 2019
12,440
Yeah, but Ventis actually holds enemies in place for easy kills. Like for Venti to hold a shield maiden up in the air for Ayakas super to just wreck them is so much more superior to what Kazuha does. Or just holding enemies in general. Kazuha groups ok I suppose but they all get knocked away immediately after.

Can you post your build
 

GalaxyDive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,954
I feel like Zhongli isn't considered """meta""" by theorycrafters/Abyss """pros""" only because they would rather have a glass cannon setup that rewards """skill""" with 5% more damage. He is undoubtedly one of the best characters in the game, his shield basically makes you invincible, and you can get the buff from his pillar. He's a huge boon to 99% of players for 95% of gameplay situations, and he's pretty team comp agnostic to boot; you can slot him in into basically any team, even with Geo's shortfalls, he can really only positively benefit it and not negatively interfere with reactions etc.

I wish Xinyan was better. I was so hyped for her and tried to build her but she's just not a good unit compared to what else I could use instead of her (I have better shielders, better main damage, better claymore users, better pyro appliers). Imagine if she dropped down what amounts to a speaker system as her ult or something that shoots out pyro flames/aoe every so often instead of the burst she has now.

EDIT: and true to form, mentioning Xinyan sucks means I get her on the free standard pull from lvl10 BP. At least C7 of her now.
Yeah, I've been using Xinyan on my overworld team the past couple months. She's fun but is thoroughly middling in all she does. I think there's been the odd Abyss floor or two where I wanted pyro on both sides and slotted her in somewhere when I didn't feel like basing one of my team's on Hu Tao, but otherwise I find myself ditching her for that and even domains.
So I'm really enjoying the Keqing I got form losing the 50/50 (which I didn't mean to hit in the first place, I was just chasing Heizou cons >.<) And I'm really enjoying her. Got her artifacts all levelled, a Jade sword, talents currently at 7 6 7 and lvl 80/80 and I've got her at 84.1 crit rate with 203 crit dmg which puts me juuuuuust under 100% crit rate after using her burst. ER on 133 too and it's so low cost. I'm really liking her. I think I'm glad I got her over C1 Kaz (LOVE Kaz, but In things like this I'd rather a new character to play with than a slightly better version of an already great character). Saying that though, I would rather C1 Kaz over Klee as I don't like her playstyle from the trial stuff (even though she is HYPER adorable and precious).

Looking at her cons they all seem really good too. Would much rather lose pity to Keqing than Qiqi or Mona. Just need Jean from the base 5* now. I was hoping for Jean if I lost my pity as another anemo support/healer/VV shredder etc would be nice and comfy for teams but Keqing is just fun.

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Yeah, I got Keqing around the start of the year and found her a ton of fun. Being bored as hell of Ganyu after a year, I wound up making her the lead DPS on my overworld team and YOLO triple crowned her soon after. I stuck with her through Enkanomiya and the Chasm. Only recently backseated her when I picked up Yelan, and just benched her this week to run a more GAA-themed team with Kazuha. But unlike, say, Diluc, who I cycled through the year before and don't feel that compelled to revisit, I definitely intend to cycle her back in every now and then when I feel like using someone that's fun to spam normal attack with.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,688
He is tied with Xiao, Venti, and Childe for most reruns, with rumors that he might have another.
Huh, wasn't aware.
He is still meta because Hu Tao uses him, but a lot of other carries don't need him because they have built in interruption resistance so having a good healer is basically the same as Zhongli for them, but that healer might be providing better elemental application.
Other than Raiden and Xingqiu, who has built in interruption resistance?
 

Peradam

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,785
I feel like Zhongli isn't considered """meta""" by theorycrafters/Abyss """pros""" only because they would rather have a glass cannon setup that rewards """skill""" with 5% more damage.
This is such a bad take, meta doesn't mean you forgo survivability in order to achieve the fastest clear time. There are plenty of meta teams that incorporate shielding or healing.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,688
Which new meta teams, and what meta teams have they replaced that are no longer meta?
Freeze teams, Kazuha teams that aren't using Bennett

Also I do not care what anyone else says about Freeze teams, they are really hard to play well. Way too often I'll freeze an enemy that is halfway through their animation, forget about that, and end up getting hit when the enemy unfreezes for half a second. I want healers on those teams but given most of them are Mona / Kazuha / Cryo / Cryo - the only option you have is Diona if you want healing (and no meta freeze teams use her anymore)
 

Peradam

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,785
Freeze teams, Kazuha teams that aren't using Bennett
Freeze teams never needed a healer, that was always an argument, but the meta hasn't shifted so much that a healer is unnecessary. The current meta places Ayaka, Shenhe, Kazuha, Kokomi at the top of the dpr list. "Kazuha teams that aren't using Bennett" is too vague.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,688
Freeze teams never needed a healer, that was always an argument, but the meta hasn't shifted so much that a healer is unnecessary. The current meta places Ayaka, Shenhe, Kazuha, Kokomi at the top of the dpr list. "Kazuha teams that aren't using Bennett" is too vague.
If I listed every meta team that uses Kazuha I'd be here all day. 80% of all meta teams have Kazuha in them. Probably more. There are however an increasing number of Kazuha teams that don't use Bennett, usually because they're doing TTDS manipulations or Kazuha + Venti CC stuff.

And before you say, "well they're using CC" - the thing about CC is that it's never 100% uptime. You are going to get hit, and that's why you need a shielder or healer. But a lot of meta stuff is just, "don't get hit." Nice in theorycrafting land, frequently not practical.
 

Peradam

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,785
If I listed every meta team that uses Kazuha I'd be here all day. 80% of all meta teams have Kazuha in them. Probably more. There are however an increasing number of Kazuha teams that don't use Bennett, usually because they're doing TTDS manipulations or Kazuha + Venti CC stuff.
They haven't replaced other meta teams, though. What's this argument about, that teams with healers and shielders are no longer meta? That just isn't the case.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,688
All that said Peradam I'm not even sure how much it matters because you don't actually need to play meta to clear Abyss. There's no content that needs a meta in this game, so the fact that there exists this huge library of knowledge about the best teams is somewhat moot. I'm playing teams with characters I like playing at this point. Still, I am aware that the meta has shifted (and will naturally continue to shift) to teams with higher damage and less healing / shielding.

They haven't replaced other meta teams, though. What's this argument about, that teams with healers and shielders are no longer meta? That just isn't the case.
Okay, that's a fair point.
 

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,154
Honestly I don't want Geo to interact with anything, I enjoy the unga bunga gameplay of Itto's party. If I want to play with reactions I have other characters.
 

ccbfan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,520
In the tc community a team that does 5% more damage but fails 50% of the time is better than a team that succeed 90% of the time.

Even though both teams can complete abyss 12 with plenty of time left.
 

Peradam

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,785
All that said @Peradam I'm not even sure how much it matters because you don't actually need to play meta to clear Abyss. There's no content that needs a meta in this game, so the fact that there exists this huge library of knowledge about the best teams is somewhat moot. I'm playing teams with characters I like playing at this point. Still, I am aware that the meta has shifted (and will naturally continue to shift) to teams with higher damage and less healing / shielding.
100% agreed, and I try to always play my favourites too.
 

GalaxyDive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,954
Yeah, the only relative downside of Zhongli is that he doesn't add to reactions or a useful resonance.

Bennett's healing is a basically bonus on top of how busted his burst's damage boost is (not to mention the pyro resonance). Kokomi's one of the better hydro applicators out there for freeze teams. Diona's probably the only other character out there who gets some use primarily for shield/heal.
In the tc community a team that does 5% more damage but fails 50% of the time is better than a team that succeed 90% of the time.

Even though both teams can complete abyss 12 with plenty of time left.
Yeah, exactly. The "meta" is effectively about speedrunning a 36* Abyss since that's really the only endgame. Especially as more characters are added, it's becoming increasingly distanced from even what it takes for a comfortable 36* clear.
 

xendless

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Jan 23, 2019
12,440
In the tc community a team that does 5% more damage but fails 50% of the time is better than a team that succeed 90% of the time.

Even though both teams can complete abyss 12 with plenty of time left.

I wouldn't say that's true
TCers are very critical Eula with overblown crit dmg instead of a balanced crit rate
Otherwise you gonna be slamming on the reset button, even if in theory it could be better
It's more about the average result
 

Zulith

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,037
West Coast, USA
Today's portion of the event story spoilers, a question:

Are you not supposed to find Fischl on the island at the end of the story? I can only find Xinyan, Kaz, Mona, but not Fischl. I know she was deep in thought but she should still be there right.
 

xendless

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Jan 23, 2019
12,440
Today's portion of the event story spoilers, a question:

Are you not supposed to find Fischl on the island at the end of the story? I can only find Xinyan, Kaz, Mona, but not Fischl. I know she was deep in thought but she should still be there right.

I saw Oz disappear from the island when the cutscene ended but it was pretty blink and you'll miss it
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,090
Sheffield, UK
Anyone else got event cutscene screwiness? Paimon was like "whoa what's that?" and another cutscene seemed to play for a fraction of a second, then it ended and I had to "take the boat to the place where the crazy shit happened". But I didn't see the crazy thing and had no idea which way to go.

I found it, but I feel cheated out of seeing crazy shit.
 

xendless

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Jan 23, 2019
12,440
Anyone else got event cutscene screwiness? Paimon was like "whoa what's that?" and another cutscene seemed to play for a fraction of a second, then it ended and I had to "take the boat to the place where the crazy shit happened". But I didn't see the crazy thing and had no idea which way to go.

I found it, but I feel cheated out of seeing crazy shit.

Not that, but I had colour in a cutscene that was supposed to be black and white
I honestly think this is the first time I've encountered bugs in this game, and seen different ones in this thread
Perhaps remnants of the Shanghai lockdown pause
 

Vena

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,843
Anyone else got event cutscene screwiness? Paimon was like "whoa what's that?" and another cutscene seemed to play for a fraction of a second, then it ended and I had to "take the boat to the place where the crazy shit happened". But I didn't see the crazy thing and had no idea which way to go.

I found it, but I feel cheated out of seeing crazy shit.

I fell through the floor a few times during the cutscenes in Kazuha's house, lol. I think it was because I triggered several cutscenes while running as Yelan.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Can you post your build

Here's my Kazuha and the two different builds I've tried, one all in on EM, the other with an Anemo goblet to see which damage I liked more. The all in on EM build gives me about 950 EM 130 ER, the other Anemo focused one gives me about 760 EM 160 ER. When I'm playing him I can barely tell the difference in either build tbh. I just have the R5 Iron Sting on him because everyone says that's one of his best.


View: https://twitter.com/Broke_Astronaut/status/1548475034406072322?s=20&t=kydOZaB5-iOxT2I9srtrGg
 

OhmygoditsJROD

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,619
At what point do y'all give up on an artifact and consider a character done? Feels like I'm never going to get a better attack artifact for Yoi.
 

Busaiku

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,135
At what point do y'all give up on an artifact and consider a character done? Feels like I'm never going to get a better attack artifact for Yoi.
I'm still grinding Venti artifacts, 2 years later.
Every other character, I'm ok at 60% to 70%.

Will keep going until I can get Venti to 90% (he's 72%).
I literally have not made any progress in 3 months.
 

Orion

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,502
Finished day 2 of the event. That was so much more elaborate than I was expecting! I've been enjoying the storytelling execution so much that I wasn't even annoyed when it became the Kazuha show once again. Mihoyoverse certainly pulling out all the stops for him. And I must admit that despite my recent comment about him being boring, drunk Kazuha was certainly a highlight.

They're really stepping up their domain game too. Loved everything about it. The fact that they let you re-enter the domains for treasure is a welcome blessing since I hate always feeling like I may have missed something. Can't wait to see more dream worlds. Especially Fischl's, which I imagine will be rather sad.

Finished Abyss with my 36 stars as well. Been pretty easy for me ever since the heralds moved out. Had Zhongli, Itto, Ning and Raiden on one team, with Ayato, Yae, Kaeya and Thoma on the other. The way Ayato and Yae ended that snake so effortlessly... Baizhu and Changsheng are shook.
 
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