Please read the actual content of the posts being critical about him. It doesn't help that the article title is ass by painting someone with 2 million dollars as broke.
Forbes: The Billionaire Who Wanted To Die Broke . . . Is Now Officially Broke (Chuck Feeney)
- Thread starter JustinBB7
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It's pretty simple. If the definition of upper middle class goes up to the 98th percentile and a 2 million net worth puts you in the 95th percentile, then by that criteria, someone with 2 million net worth is in the upper middle class.
Yeah look good on the guy for doing what he thought was right I guess but he is a prime example of the core wrongs that created that wealth in the first place
Yep. Its a privelege to clear your conscience after the fact. The damage is done
Let me be clear. Feeney seems like a genuinely good person and its not like he could have done much about the systemic problems that created him so he did the next best thing
People still want the laser pointer on systemic change and Feeney reads like a humble enough person to agree with that
It is not "pretty low" on the scale of wealth... how is 2.3% of Americans "pretty low".
Again, this is amazingly oit of touch.
And yet, it is still very rich...
This isn't even debatable.
Agree that the sheer existence of billionaires lays bare our broken system, but will point out for the sake of accuracy that this guy doesn't seem to have any stake in the company's current incarnation; he apparently transferred 100% of his ownership to his philanthropy foundation back in '84. Now, whether or not his foundation had any say in employee wages in DFS Group however is a different question of course (how does ownership of shares in a company work when your organization's goal is philanthropy for instance), but we'd need to go trawling through records that I don't understand in order to answer that question.Speaking of working in retail let's look at what his company pays retail workers
As the pandemic highlighted retail workers are essential and they should be paid a living wage. This guy refused to pay his retail workers a living wage, became a billionaire off the labor of others and people in here are defending him.
At the end of the day, the fact that this guy was able to become a billionaire most definitely speaks to his willingness to exploit labor in service to capitalism, but at least he doesn't seem actively evil like Bezos or Zuck, or at least had some sort of change of heart after becoming a billionaire.
Well, if it is easy - please show me an agency or research center who uses a calculation method / measure that would put a person with a net worth of 2M in the middle class. I'm not talking about income. I'm talking about net wealth.
I understand criticizing the article title, 2 million isn't broke I agree with that. I also understand the criticism to the system that let him get to 9 billion dollars in the first place and I really don't know if the dude was a shitty person or how he was as a boss with his employees. All that I'm saying is that giving away all your fortune over the years seems like the right thing to do and he did it and some people are still angry at him.
The definition of what counts as rich is very debatable as shown on this forum where people think making 6 figures makes you rich. Everyone has different definitions and criteria of what makes you rich and what doesn't and there is no hard number that makes you rich in most cases because you there's nuance to it with a number of factors such as how old you are, where you live, etc.
Well here's a chart showing the breakdown of where the population falls:
And here's one stating that 2 million net worth puts you in the 93 percentile:
Net Worth Percentile Calculator – United States (and Average)
Wealth percentile calculator for you to compare to United States data, and see top one percent, average, and median. What net worth percentile are you?
dqydj.com
Who Are the Top One Percent by Income or Net Worth in 2024? - DQYDJ
You hear about them often - but who are the top one percent? See stats for top one percent for income & net worth in America in 2024.
dqydj.com
Actually, 2 million would put him around the top 5%.
In the US, anyway. But that's not really going to change the opinion of the vast majority of the people in this thread, is it?
For those confused on why many here aren't just satisfied with the story of an old billionaire giving away his billions over a lifetime, I recommend the following:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/plutocratic-politics-and-the-age-of-gilded-giving/2018/11/30/3eaac158-f41e-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html
Props to the old billionaire for reducing his harm to society (all billionaires by merely existing are doing direct harm to our systems and culture), but philanthropy like this only reminds us that the system is rigged and utterly broke.
We're not so much hating the player in this particular thread as we are hating the game.
So yeah, in threads like these, expect those who have little and nothing to focus more on the system than the individual.
btw, 2 million dollars still safely puts this guy in that ballroom, and the suffering down below is still continuing and growing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/plutocratic-politics-and-the-age-of-gilded-giving/2018/11/30/3eaac158-f41e-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html
Props to the old billionaire for reducing his harm to society (all billionaires by merely existing are doing direct harm to our systems and culture), but philanthropy like this only reminds us that the system is rigged and utterly broke.
We're not so much hating the player in this particular thread as we are hating the game.
So yeah, in threads like these, expect those who have little and nothing to focus more on the system than the individual.
btw, 2 million dollars still safely puts this guy in that ballroom, and the suffering down below is still continuing and growing.
That's why it's hard to look at all these rich peoples "donations" anything other than a publicity stunt. Sorry to break the news to most folks but if rich people just pay their taxes they would do a lot more for this world than just donating to random charity's. I think people forget that low income programs that help out the needy are all funded by taxes and if we just tax the rich 5% then a lot of problems would be solved.There's also the fact that DFS group is still paying a lot of its employees below a living wage.
DFS Group Sales Associate Salaries
Average salaries for DFS Group Sales Associate: $17. DFS Group salary trends based on salaries posted anonymously by DFS Group employees.www.glassdoor.com
The definition of what counts as rich is very debatable as shown on this forum where people think making 6 figures makes you rich. Everyone has different definitions and criteria of what makes you rich and what doesn't and there is no hard number that makes you rich in most cases because you there's nuance to it with a number of factors such as how old you are, where you live, etc.
Well here's a chart showing the breakdown of where the population falls:
And here's one stating that 2 million net worth puts you in the 93 percentile:
Net Worth Percentile Calculator – United States (and Average)
Wealth percentile calculator for you to compare to United States data, and see top one percent, average, and median. What net worth percentile are you?
That income chart is ridiculous and follows no standards for how class is measured, the 1 percent is "rich" and the middle class is between the 98th-20th percentile, there is no upper class - except that the so-called "upper middle class" is the by any normal measure of class, the upper class. To illustrate the uselessness of the image above combined with the data from "PK"s calculations: by this measurement of class you are middle class between net worth of 4k-2.3M...
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He sold that company 24 years ago. What does their hourly wage now have to do with him?Speaking of working in retail let's look at what his company pays retail workers
As the pandemic highlighted retail workers are essential and they should be paid a living wage. This guy refused to pay his retail workers a living wage, became a billionaire off the labor of others and people in here are defending him.
Hell he gave away more than I would
If I had 7 Billion I'd leave myself with 5 mil
What a legend
If I had 7 Billion I'd leave myself with 5 mil
What a legend
"Broke" is definitely misrepresenting his financial security, but those in this thread comparing an 89-year old retiree to a hypothetical middle aged, "normal" person are also being disingenuous.
Even if you're just an office drone with a bachelor degree, or someone working a trade job, you should be targeting at least a million dollars in retirement funds by the time you're done working.
Even if you're just an office drone with a bachelor degree, or someone working a trade job, you should be targeting at least a million dollars in retirement funds by the time you're done working.
There's also this:
The Average Net Worth By Age For The Upper Middle Class
This post will look in depth at the average net worth by age for the upper middle class. The upper middle class, aka the mass affluent, is loosely defined as individuals with a net worth or investable assets between $500,000 to $2 million. The upper middle class is also sometimes referred to as...
www.financialsamurai.com
or even this:
The Class Structure in the U.S. | Boundless Sociology
courses.lumenlearning.com
So there are plenty of sources that seem to back it up that criteria.
0.005% of the world population has a wealth of 1 millions USD equivalent or more (46 millions millionnaires in the world). That's VERY far from common I'd say. Even in the top 3 countries in terms of millionnaires (ie Swizterland an HK), they don't account for more than 10% of the population, and those countries are friggin expensives in the first place.
Not trying to nitpick, it was just a good opportunity to set context :)
List of countries by number of millionaires - Wikipedia
0.005% of the world population has a wealth of 1 millions USD equivalent or more (46 millions millionnaires in the world). That's VERY far from common I'd say. Even in the top 3 countries in terms of millionnaires (ie Swizterland an HK), they don't account for more than 10% of the population, and those countries are friggin expensives in the first place.
Not trying to nitpick, it was just a good opportunity to set context :)
List of countries by number of millionaires - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Well to also put it in context, if you make $14k a year, you're in the 90th percentile. So a lot of people who are poor would be considered rich when comparing to the rest of the world.
No one is rich, everyone's middle class, or upper-middle class. I have got into this same argument with friends before, but people like to define "rich" as someone who can buy million dollar cars and 40 million dollar mansions. Personally I think it is fucking ridiculous that we have accepted the idea that people in the top 10 or 5 percent are just middle class. I think it is just a deflection mechanism so they can say "I ain't the problem, it's those billionaires" while they support the same status quo that keeps growing income inequality.
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Some people in this thread: "It's like nothing is ever enough for some people."
Fucking. Duh. Someone exploited laborers for decades and you expect us all to be like "This person is pretty cool now" when they give away most of their billionaire wealth and become only a mere millionaire at the age of 80+.
Frugal living is great though. I give serious kudos for that because that's how I'd like to see myself at any level of wealth.
Philanthropy is simply a tool in the belt of the very wealthy and the system is working for them just as intended. Arguing that "$2 mil isn't really that much" simply muddies the waters of discussing the ethics of billionaires or philanthropy and I believe it's a huge waste of time.
Philanthropy to change the lives of hundreds and make yourself look/feel good vs. change the system (politics, taxes), potentially change the lives of millions, and look like every other tax payer.
Fucking. Duh. Someone exploited laborers for decades and you expect us all to be like "This person is pretty cool now" when they give away most of their billionaire wealth and become only a mere millionaire at the age of 80+.
Frugal living is great though. I give serious kudos for that because that's how I'd like to see myself at any level of wealth.
Philanthropy is simply a tool in the belt of the very wealthy and the system is working for them just as intended. Arguing that "$2 mil isn't really that much" simply muddies the waters of discussing the ethics of billionaires or philanthropy and I believe it's a huge waste of time.
Philanthropy to change the lives of hundreds and make yourself look/feel good vs. change the system (politics, taxes), potentially change the lives of millions, and look like every other tax payer.
Amazing and an inspiration. If only others would follow his leadership, the world would be a better place.
I mean, you can look at where he donated his money and see much of it was towards changing the system.
I could live for 92.5 years with that kind of money with how much I make in a month. 2 million is a huge amount of money for a vast majority of people. What the fuck am I reading. How divorced from reality can you be.
There's also this:
The Average Net Worth By Age For The Upper Middle Class
This post will look in depth at the average net worth by age for the upper middle class. The upper middle class, aka the mass affluent, is loosely defined as individuals with a net worth or investable assets between $500,000 to $2 million. The upper middle class is also sometimes referred to as...
or even this:
The Class Structure in the U.S. | Boundless Sociology
So there are plenty of sources that seem to back it up that criteria.
You do not seem to understand that you will get different results if you use either income or wealth as indicator, illustrated by the two links you posted.
And yes, plenty of sources if one of the criteria is using someone who identifies under the moniker "financial samurai" as a credible source. The second "source" you cite uses income and not net worth as the basis for percentiles.
The Census Bureau has the last quintile at the top 20%, meaning networth over 480k. Pew, which is considered the de facto standard has the 85th percentiles as upper class in terms of net worth, which amounts to around 500k and above. Economists use the middle three quintiles of the wealth distribution as the definition of middle class. Again, I implore you to come up with a credible source or study that positions net wealth of 2M in the US as middle class.
Abolishing death penalty and campaigning for ACA is good. However, there isn't enough info in this article to see if he actually pushed for changing the system (aka, push for redistribution of wealth via political donations). His donations appear to have been for the short-term.
What's better giving that money to small group of people or giving that money to organizations that benefit entire populations?
Do we even know what the average pay was for his employees?
Thread is very revealing about all the members posting at this so-called "progressive" forum who identify with the billionaire in this story, and not the countless folks he overworked, underpaid, lowballed, and screwed over along the way in order to become a billionaire in the first place. That "temporarily embarrassed millionaire billionaire" mentality is the biggest impediment to class-related progress there is.
I'm really not fucking interested in dumb-ass takes here that being a fucking millionaire "isn't all that much." Fuck the hell off.
He went from multibillionaire to relatively broke and living in a small apartment — just like he planned
This week, Chuck Feeney closed his 38-year-old Atlantic Philanthropies, having donated all his cash to such lofty endeavors as bringing peace to Northern...
www.marketwatch.com
Why are people always spiteful towards the billionaires who choose to give back, though?
He tried to make the world better in the best way he could. He gave away those billions. What's the issue there?
I am all for taxing billionaires fairly and freely but that should not result in losing 99% of what you have earned in my opinion.
What if instead of you seeing it as him losing 99%, you see it as earning a fair salary. 2 million is more than enough for him to begin with.
His theoretical personal tax wouldn't be so if he paid his staff good wages.
Bezos is on the really high end but he could give every employee at Amazon a 100,000 USD bonus (they have about 1 million employees worldwide) and he would still be a billionaire.
Instead, Amazon workers have to piss in bottles and are paid minimum wage.
Bezos is on the really high end but he could give every employee at Amazon a 100,000 USD bonus (they have about 1 million employees worldwide) and he would still be a billionaire.
Instead, Amazon workers have to piss in bottles and are paid minimum wage.
I am not even going to pretend to join the billionaire hate bandwagon. I fully support the possibility of people being able to turn billionaire. Especially if they turn out to be Bill Gates or like this guy. Who in the end will help the world in a much better way than their own political leaders will (Trump administration spending lol fuck that)
I
No one "turns into a billionaire" without massive exploitation & oppression of people somewhere & generally crapping all over nature, so you are essentially supporting slavery, human rights abuse and destruction of our environments with your sentiment.
Dude out here literally prototyping the positive role model everyone is asking for and he still gets mad shit.
I could honestly care less about the side discussion of him saving 2 million for himself
Thats whatever. He was a multi billionaire that shouldn't have existed
Fucking preach
Thats whatever. He was a multi billionaire that shouldn't have existed
Fucking preach
I obviously don't. Not all billionaires are Jeff Bezos. I full support a system where we tax fairly, but preventing businesses from making billions will be counter-productive for technology. Greed is probably the number 1 reason we have advanced technology and medicine. If we could regulate and tax it fair, create healthy work environments both domestic and internationally that would be good place to start.
Lotta folks wanna roll out a guillotine anytime someone has money - doesn't matter how they use it or what for. You have some give if you're an actor or someone "relatable" for some reason. Just how it is here. Contrarian as fuck, especially when there's some cause you can act self-righteous about.
Like you don't see these same posters in threads about their favorite tv show or game ranting about how unneccesary it is for an actor to make millions.
Stop acting like you're taking some massive high-ground and can assume everyone's intention and mindset. I can identify with the overworked , underpaid, lowballed and screwed over people, while also thinking it's stupid to be an ass when someone is charitable. I'd rather direct my angst with the system towards those who more clearly perpetuate its ills without remorse. I was always taught to not look a gift horse in the mouth. So maybe, just maybe, I don't sympathize with a billionaire, and instead, god forbid, I just disagree with you.
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It's because people who make media, TV shows etc. sell their labour, same as a warehouse worker or a nurse.
Most of the fundamental tech that goes into your smartphone or PC was developed with public money from one country or another. Same goes with medicines, big pharma just come in towards the end and scoop up the patents.
I actually agree, workers losing the full value of their labor is a tragedy and should be rectified.
But they are billionaires. Billionaires should not exist? That's entirely the argument I've been hearing. Specifically, others have said it doesn't matter how they earned their money, because being a billionaire means they must have exploited people. Many billionaires "sell their labor". Programmers, technicians, engineers, doctors, scientists, all of these people sell their mind for millions and billions of dollars. I would presume these people are also evil by your standard, but actors are not. Why?
This is a pretty funny post coming from someone with a Don Draper avatar.
Edit: also companies making billions isnt the same as individuals making billions