Forbes Contributor: Disney’s ‘Star Wars’ Has Been Swallowed Whole By Nostalgia (The Mandalorian S2 spoilers)

[PanzerKraken]

I'm having fun with the show, and it's giving fans what they want, that isn't a bad thing.

What I do have an issue with is that giving the fans what they want is somehow a free pass to bad writing. There so much awful writing, poor pacing, and just contrived plot points in the Mando but fans just get angry AF cause "ITS STAR WARS". Turn off your brain entertainment, because who cares that this doesn't make sense, OMG ITS FUCKING BOBA FETT KILLING DUDES OMGGGGGGG

 

[Wyze]

The show revitalized the franchise, it's the Iron Man of Star Wars with a bunch of shows spinning off it. To me it's not because of nostalgia, its because it's connecting to the larger Star Wars universe.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

Luke returns! Finally! Great moment. He's a hero and not a complete and total failure who not only abandons the galaxy in it's time of greatest need but also his Sister.

Hero's may fail but they keep trying, they don't quit.

Old EU did it all better. The New Republic. The Imperial Remnant. The Skywalkers and the Solos. Hell even Palpatines short lived return was handled better.

 

[Mekanos]

Why do you feel joy? Let's analyze why you shouldn't be happy about the one thing that made you happy this year.

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That's one way to personalize critique of one of the biggest mass media franchises on the planet.

This is why I don't talk about Star Wars anymore. The best part was when Mark Hamill showed up and smiled. That certainly didn't happen in TLJ.

No one wants TFU Starkiller. Stop acting like that's all people got out of this Luke appearance.

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Does your evaluation of Luke Skywalker's characterization mostly weigh whether or not he smiles?

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

This is why I don't talk about Star Wars anymore.

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You literally show up in every single damn Star Wars thread to complain about how bad TLJ is.

 

[rashbeep]

It is kind of damning that this was said three years ago

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on point

star wars sucks now and the fans ruined it

 

[Deleted member 7051]

I was surprised at the reaction videos to Luke's appearance. Maybe they just ham it up because that makes reaction videos more interesting, but to see people tearing up over that was the weirdest thing to me.

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It's not really that weird. A lot of people grew up watching, and were inspired, by Luke Skywalker. To see him again, just as they remember him, is certainly something that'll impact people. Moreso after the sequel trilogy went all "never meet your heroes" on us. Sure, meeting Luke Skywalker in the sequel trilogy and seeing a shadow of the man we once knew is very disappointing, but we saw the man himself in The Mandalorian and that's totally going to leave an impression on a lot of people.

 

[Thorn]

It's not really that weird. A lot of people grew up watching, and were inspired, by Luke Skywalker. To see him again, just as they remember him, is certainly something that'll impact people. Moreso after the sequel trilogy went all "never meet your heroes" on us. Sure, meeting Luke Skywalker in the sequel trilogy and seeing a shadow of the man we once knew is very disappointing, but we saw the man himself in The Mandalorian and that's totally going to leave an impression on a lot of people.

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My dad lost his mind over it and it he said it made his entire day. He was still giddy the day after!

 

[The Unsent]

It's not really that weird. A lot of people grew up watching, and were inspired, by Luke Skywalker. To see him again, just as they remember him, is certainly something that'll impact people. Moreso after the sequel trilogy went all "never meet your heroes" on us. Sure, meeting Luke Skywalker in the sequel trilogy and seeing a shadow of the man we once knew is very disappointing, but we saw the man himself in The Mandalorian and that's totally going to leave an impression on a lot of people.

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I wish I felt that way, I just saw a stunt double in a cloak attacking robots, and a generated face underneath 'how they remember him'.. I like being sucked into these grand moments, but it weren't happening for me.

 

[DeathyBoy]

It's not really that weird. A lot of people grew up watching, and were inspired, by Luke Skywalker. To see him again, just as they remember him, is certainly something that'll impact people. Moreso after the sequel trilogy went all "never meet your heroes" on us. Sure, meeting Luke Skywalker in the sequel trilogy and seeing a shadow of the man we once knew is very disappointing, but we saw the man himself in The Mandalorian and that's totally going to leave an impression on a lot of people.

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But that's what I don't get, if you grew up and were inspired by Luke then clearly you're well into adulthood now. You've lived, you've made mistakes, and you've moved beyond such narrow concepts as good and bad. So it's weird y'all don't relate to Luke, who's done likewise and made huge mistakes but, when push comes to shove, is more heroic than he's ever been.

I just find it weird that isn't inspiring to people, that it's never too late to become the best version of yourself.

 

[Deleted member 7051]

But that's what I don't get, if you grew up and were inspired by Luke then clearly you're well into adulthood now. You've lived, you've made mistakes, and you've moved beyond such narrow concepts as good and bad. So it's weird y'all don't relate to Luke, who's done likewise and made huge mistakes but, when push comes to shove, is more heroic than he's ever been.

I just find it weird that isn't inspiring to people, that it's never too late to become the best version of yourself.

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Like I said, the sequel trilogy went for the "never meet your heroes" angle. It wanted us to be disappointed in them. Luke had abandoned everything and everyone after trying to kill his nephew, Leia was ostracised by the New Republic and a pariah among her peers, Han had regressed to a criminal smuggler even after saving the galaxy multiple times... it's like the worst possible versions of all of them and then they're unceremoniously killed off, one at a time. That's depressing as shit.

It's not like those three made a few small mistakes but ultimately became successful, they all failed miserably to achieve the potential they had. How can you relate to that unless you're disappointed in the adult you've become?

 

[Haunted]

"Generational nostalgia has so gripped the culture, especially in terms of what drives media coverage, that adults are now cheering that Luke Skywalker killed a bunch of robots and Hocus Pocus is getting a sequel. Modern pop culture is now dominated by kid-friendly properties aimed at nostalgic adults. "

While this feels true, there's nothing stopping anyone from abandoning this shallow and superficial part of our collective shared culture.


Maybe the author is frustrated because he has to report on it as part of his job as entertainment reporter or whatever he is.

 

[Caped Baldy]

I can remember after RoTS thinking that was it. That we would be left with no new SW, and that if George Lucas did deign us worthy of more content, it would be on the piss poor level of the prequels.

I fucking love the SW universe. You can make up shit about whatever, and retcon whatever you want, as long as you set it in this space fantasy world I'm usually enthralled. The sequels were not as terrible as people make them out to be. They tried some new things, they leaned into nostalgia (because it's what we wanted), and now people on the internet can't stop arguing about how terrible everything is.

Luke showing up at the end was cool. Who else could have possibly been the jedi to take the child? Ashoka said no, so that leaves fuck all else for jedi trainer options at this point in the timeline. It was a nice moment that didn't overstay its welcome, and helped wrap up this arc in a nice bow.

In summary, The Mandalorian is objectively good shit you fucking babies.

 

[Aly]

I didn't mind Luke in Mandalorian or how that played out. I was hoping for it in fact. My problem is some people after acting like that's the only way Luke and Starwars should ever be. Like Mandalorian justifies their hate of TLJ or something. If anything. I think seeing Luke like this makes the fall he had even better.

 

[The Unsent]

Like I said, the sequel trilogy went for the "never meet your heroes" angle. It wanted us to be disappointed in them. Luke had abandoned everything and everyone after trying to kill his nephew, Leia was ostracised by the New Republic and a pariah among her peers, Han had regressed to a criminal smuggler even after saving the galaxy multiple times... it's like the worst possible versions of all of them and then they're unceremoniously killed off, one at a time. That's depressing as shit.

It's not like those three made a few small mistakes but ultimately became successful, they all failed miserably to achieve the potential they had. How can you relate to that unless you're disappointed in the adult you've become?

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I think the expectations of meeting your idol.. plot was only emphathized with Luke, Rey bonded with Han Solo and Leia rather quickly, wheras Luke they made a big thing about when he throws the light saber away.

 

[ParanormalFupa]

I think the 'expectations of meeting your idol' plot was only emphathized with Luke, Rey bonded with Han Solo and Leia rather quickly, wheras Luke they made a big thing about when he throws the light saber away.

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The sequels made me never want to see Leia again. She was terrible.

 

[Bengraven]

That's one way to personalize critique of one of the biggest mass media franchises on the plane

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I can agree from the perspective that some of the work is definitely nostalgia being shoved down our throat's, it's an issue since the first year after Disney took over. I think it's an issue when people try to apply the same critique to the Mando that they do for the sequel trilogy, and how it's very obvious that there are two different takes on it. Instead of conflating them together.

 

[Osahi]

Like I said, the sequel trilogy went for the "never meet your heroes" angle. It wanted us to be disappointed in them. Luke had abandoned everything and everyone after trying to kill his nephew, Leia was ostracised by the New Republic and a pariah among her peers, Han had regressed to a criminal smuggler even after saving the galaxy multiple times... it's like the worst possible versions of all of them and then they're unceremoniously killed off, one at a time. That's depressing as shit.

It's not like those three made a few small mistakes but ultimately became successful, they all failed miserably to achieve the potential they had. How can you relate to that unless you're disappointed in the adult you've become?

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But that's not what the sequel trilogy does? At least not TLJ.

Luke steps into the role of legendary hero at the end. He becomes the myth people need him to be. (And it's an actual pay-of when he does that. It hits me right in the feels every time in a way the Mando scene never is able to, because in TLJ there is actually meaning behind it from within the story. It's the emotional pay-of of an arc, not a deus ex machina that only works emotionaly because it's a character we recognise).

Leia is still the inspirational leader everyone in the Resistance looks up to. She might have been ostracised by the new republic, but she still leads the fight and inspires others to follow her. Han is maybe the only one you can blame to have 'regressed' in the end, but still he ends TFA trying to bring Ben back and not 'being Han about it' anymore. In TROS he even succeeds in a way, though it's clear that was originally intended to be Leia there.

What the ST /TLJ tells us is not 'never meet your heroes', but 'learn from your heroes, take inspiration from them and grow beyond them'. It's literally passing the torch to a new generation.

But yeah, now that I think if it, that ''s the opposite from the Mando ending, where it's basically 'your heroes will save you, don't worry. Just sit back and watch'. Well, not actually, because Luke is no-one to the protagonists. So it's basically: 'your heroes will save the protagonists they don't know anyway, who can sit back and watch'

 

[Jersey_Tom]

If anything. I think seeing Luke like this makes the fall he had even better.

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That's my thing for why not figuring out why people were so upset by seeing Luke just rushing through the Dark Troopers. Guy's 28, been researching and likely training in the old Jedi ways and is currently likely the most powerful Force-user running around the galaxy at the time, or at least as far as he knows.

He'll be in his mid-40s when his whole world goes to shit. He's still got time to kinda be a bit more lively and a human Jedi at his peak before he falls into personal despair.

 

[Ambient]

Do any of Disney's current slate of Star Wars shows take place during or after the sequel trilogy?

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Since Disney + premiered, I watched through all of Star Wars completely last year before the last movie of the sequel trilogy and seeing Luke....most importantly seeing R2-D2...made me cry and I'm a new fan so idk. I was touched. I was super geeked seeing Ahsoka too considering she is by far my favorite character in the Star Wars universe thanks to Clone Wars. The show hit the exact highs it was suppose to in my book, and I loved this season hands down.

 

[Osahi]

Do any of Disney's current slate of Star Wars shows take place during or after the sequel trilogy?

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Rogue Squadron, the next movie is post Rise of Skywalker.

 

[The Unsent]

Do any of Disney's current slate of Star Wars shows take place during or after the sequel trilogy?

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I'm sure they will when people are more nostalgic. I bet even Kylo Ren will get some kind of sequel, since you never see his ghost, and they can come up with a chessy way for the Force to say his work isn't finished, and he comes back

 

[Cecil]

There's a lot of nostalgia, sure, but swallowed whole? Not sure there.

I mean the second season manages to combine these new characters, with characters not before seen in feature movies/series, and bring back old OT moments. It feels like a massive feat that should be celebrated.

And even when it does rely on old OT characters, places and and other things, they move things forward, instead of just resetting everything, like The Force Awakens did.

 

[Tomasoares]

Kylo Ren returning wouldn't be a bad thing, tbh, especially after what they did to Maul and Boba.

 

[Deleted member 7051]

But that's not what the sequel trilogy does? At least not TLJ.

Luke steps into the role of legendary hero at the end. He becomes the myth people need him to be. (And it's an actual pay-of when he does that. It hits me right in the feels every time in a way the Mando scene never is able to, because in TLJ there is actually meaning behind it from within the story. It's the emotional pay-of of an arc, not a deus ex machina that only works emotionaly because it's a character we recognise).

Leia is still the inspirational leader everyone in the Resistance looks up to. She might have been ostracised by the new republic, but she still leads the fight and inspires others to follow her. Han is maybe the only one you can blame to have 'regressed' in the end, but still he ends TFA trying to bring Ben back and not 'being Han about it' anymore. In TROS he even succeeds in a way, though it's clear that was originally intended to be Leia there.

What the ST /TLJ tells us is not 'never meet your heroes', but 'learn from your heroes, take inspiration from them and grow beyond them'. It's literally passing the torch to a new generation.

But yeah, now that I think if it, that ''s the opposite from the Mando ending, where it's basically 'your heroes will save you, don't worry. Just sit back and watch'. Well, not actually, because Luke is no-one to the protagonists. So it's basically: 'your heroes will save the protagonists they don't know anyway, who can sit back and watch'

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The sequel trilogy as a whole, which is the only way to look at it, tells us that the heroes of our childhood grew up to be failures. I'm pretty confident that if you had told folks thirty years ago that, no, Luke won't actually rebuild the Jedi Order, Leia won't lead the New Republic and Han won't leverage his newfound fame to achieve success he never could have dreamt of as a small time smuggler, they'd be disappointed. You want to believe that your heroes succeeded because, in turn, that strengthens your belief that you can succeed too.

That was an intentional narrative choice because, as you say, it's ultimately about passing the torch. The sequel trilogy isn't about relating to Luke, Leia or Han. It's about relating to Rey, Finn and Poe and so sacrifices have to be made. Rey can't grow beyond Luke if he's a success story, a farmboy that defeated an Empire by choosing love over hate and rebuilt the Jedi Order, and so Luke must fail. The success of the original trilogy gang was effectively sacrificed so that the new gang could surpass them but, then, that never happened either. Rey never rebuilt the Jedi Order in Luke's stead, Finn never even became a Jedi let alone a leader that rallied the other victims of the First Order around him and Poe never became the inspiration leader of the Resistance that he was meant to be.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Like I said, the sequel trilogy went for the "never meet your heroes" angle. It wanted us to be disappointed in them. Luke had abandoned everything and everyone after trying to kill his nephew, Leia was ostracised by the New Republic and a pariah among her peers, Han had regressed to a criminal smuggler even after saving the galaxy multiple times... it's like the worst possible versions of all of them and then they're unceremoniously killed off, one at a time. That's depressing as shit.

It's not like those three made a few small mistakes but ultimately became successful, they all failed miserably to achieve the potential they had. How can you relate to that unless you're disappointed in the adult you've become?

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Mate, I've hit rock bottom and dragged myself out. So yeah, I find it inspiring one of my favourite fictional characters has done likewise. Also, potential? Potential is not a maxim for whether you've lived a good life, fictional or otherwise. And neither is the idea that you should remain who you were in your twenties for your entire life.

 

[Cross]

Since Disney + premiered, I watched through all of Star Wars completely last year before the last movie of the sequel trilogy and seeing Luke....most importantly seeing R2-D2...made me cry and I'm a new fan so idk. I was touched. I was super geeked seeing Ahsoka too considering she is by far my favorite character in the Star Wars universe thanks to Clone Wars. The show hit the exact highs it was suppose to in my book, and I loved this season hands down.

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According to this thread, you're not allowed to feel that way, you're a manchild still living in the past, if you feel any sort of joy towards anything that also appeals to kids you should be ashemed and seek therapy
s/

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

The fandom fell in love with The Mandolorian before we even heard the word "Jedi" being mentioned.

Like hell he's only cool because of Boba Fett.

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^ ^ THIS!!

I was already in love with the show during the first few episodes of the first season long before I knew any Jedis or Boba Fett would be on it. This whole article is total bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 7051]

Mate, I've hit rock bottom and dragged myself out. So yeah, I find it inspiring one of my favourite fictional characters has done likewise. Also, potential? Potential is not a maxim for whether you've lived a good life, fictional or otherwise. And neither is the idea that you should remain who you were in your twenties for your entire life.

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If you find it inspiring that Luke can lose everything, pull himself out from that and then die two seconds later, that's great... except that the sequel trilogy never showed us what it is Luke actually lost, only told us that he lost everything. That's one of the reasons why his appearance resonates so well with viewers and why people are correct when they say that Luke's appearance in The Mandalorian only strengthens the narrative direction his character will eventually take - by showing us what Luke had before it was all taken away, we can better understand how much it affected him. It kinda says a lot that we went from Return of the Jedi to The Last Jedi with a huge blank space in between and it's a good thing that Favreau and Filoni are filling in that gap.

It's no real different to how Revenge of the Sith showed us a bunch of random Jedi dying during Order 66 as if we were meant to feel anything. Then The Clone Wars went back, gave those Jedi names and backstories and personalities, and suddenly their deaths actually meant something.

 

[Sephzilla]

I can't help but ponder the near contradiction of the notion that a person who is critical of pandering to SW fansevice that would also be persuaded by the argument that Luke showing up is good because it accurately adheres to SW timeline continuity.

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It does adhere to continuity though?

Luke's one of only like 4 or 5 active Jedi in the galaxy at this point in the timeline that we know about, the others would be...

1. Leia
2. Ahsoka
3. Ezra
4. Cal

If Leia would be the one to respond to Grogu's "force ping" then Luke would come anyway. Ahsoka already said no. Ezra is missing. And we don't know if Cal even survived this long. Not to mention this is right around the time where Luke would have started putting together his Jedi Academy, so he would be looking for Force sensitive people. Plus, there are so few Force users in the galaxy that it probably made Grogu slightly easier to find. Luke showing up made the most sense.

 

[Osahi]

The sequel trilogy as a whole, which is the only way to look at it, tells us that the heroes of our childhood grew up to be failures. I'm pretty confident that if you had told folks thirty years ago that, no, Luke won't actually rebuild the Jedi Order, Leia won't lead the New Republic and Han won't leverage his newfound fame to achieve success he never could have dreamt of as a small time smuggler, they'd be disappointed. You want to believe that your heroes succeeded because, in turn, that strengthens your belief that you can succeed too.

That was an intentional narrative choice because, as you say, it's ultimately about passing the torch. The sequel trilogy isn't about relating to Luke, Leia or Han. It's about relating to Rey, Finn and Poe and so sacrifices have to be made. Rey can't grow beyond Luke if he's a success story, a farmboy that defeated an Empire by choosing love over hate and rebuilt the Jedi Order, and so Luke must fail. The success of the original trilogy gang was effectively sacrificed so that the new gang could surpass them but, then, that never happened either. Rey never rebuilt the Jedi Order in Luke's stead, Finn never even became a Jedi let alone a leader that rallied the other victims of the First Order around him and Poe never became the inspiration leader of the Resistance that he was meant to be.

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TROS dropped the ball on all the potential that TLJ left, but that does not suddenly turn TLJ or it's messages bad. That's all on TROS and the shitty u-turn it took of trying to give what fans wanted, in stead of giving them the good story conclusion they needed. And yes, in this argument I see TROS seperately, because it's in that film the trilogy and it's messaging ultimately fell apart. Ironically because it seemingly tries to pander to the moaning subset of fans who seem to completely miss what TLJ actually has as a message. If TROS would've actually understood what TLJ told us, we would've for instance seen Luke becoming the inspiration that reignited the Resistance

And I absolutely don't agree those characters are failures. In their prime they defeated the Empire and succeeded in everything they set out to do. Years later new troubles arose, and it was to them to pass the torch to a new generation who in their image could succeed in defeating those new problems. How sad a message is it if a new generation should solely rely on the previous one to fix their shit for them (Because that is what it would boil down to), in stead of taking that previous generation as an inspiration and grow beyond them.

If you'd tell old folks thirty years ago that Luke would struggle with his legacy while refusing to train a new Force prodigee, but wouldultimately come back from this darkness to become an inspiration to folks throughout the galaxy, that Leia in the greatest time of need would keep on fighting for all she believes in, leading a new band of heroes, and that Han would work to get his son back from the dark side, I like to think they'll say: damn, I want to see that story!

Because that what it is. A story. That's not something you can accuse Luke's cameo in Mando being.

 

[KingM]

If you find it inspiring that Luke can lose everything, pull himself out from that and then die two seconds later, that's great... except that the sequel trilogy never showed us what it is Luke actually lost, only told us that he lost everything. That's one of the reasons why his appearance resonates so well with viewers and why people are correct when they say that Luke's appearance in The Mandalorian only strengthens the narrative direction his character will eventually take - by showing us what Luke had before it was all taken away, we can better understand how much it affected him. It kinda says a lot that we went from Return of the Jedi to The Last Jedi with a huge blank space in between and it's a good thing that Favreau and Filoni are filling in that gap.

It's no real different to how Revenge of the Sith showed us a bunch of random Jedi dying during Order 66 as if we were meant to feel anything. Then The Clone Wars went back, gave those Jedi names and backstories and personalities, and suddenly their deaths actually meant something.

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For the period between RotJ and TLJ it is OK to leave things to the audiences imagination. Not every gap needs to be filled as if stories have to have every single space occupied for them to be good. The audience can imagine what Like lost, like if you can see his outcome as disappointing and someone else can see it as inspirational with just the details in TLJ that is effective storytelling. Having leeway for multiple interpretations is good.

 

[Ryan.]

Painfully accurate.

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Def not wrong

 

[Deleted member 7051]

For the period between RotJ and TLJ it is OK to leave things to the audiences imagination. Not every gap needs to be filled as if stories have to have every single space occupied for them to be good. The audience can imagine what Like lost, like if you can see his outcome as disappointing and someone else can see it as inspirational with just the details in TLJ that is effective storytelling. Having leeway for multiple interpretations is good.

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In that case I would have simply preferred they never explored Luke, Leia or Han's story in the sequel trilogy. Not only would that leave their fate up to the imagination of the audience, but it would have made Luke's cameo in The Mandalorian even more impactful because we wouldn't have a clue what he's up to and it would excite the imagination even more.

 

[Alienous]

I'm not a Star Wars fan, I haven't watched the show, but from the outside looking in it has been really interesting to see the fan reception.

The Boba Fett in his armor fight scene stood out. To me it looked exactly like the fan films that I've come across over the years, but it was recieved well.

I've seen video thumbnails with George Lucas in them, 'Star Wars is back!', when this seems like the exact recycling and microwaving that left him unethused about the Sequel Trilogy.

But if it makes people happy...

 

[Shopolic]

I don't see problem in high quality fan service.
The Rise of Skywalker was full of fan service and nostalgia, but in the worst way and those things ruined the movie. But The Mandalorian is using those really good and I love it.

 

[pargonta]

I cancelled my xbox free trial before the most recent episode, but I land on the side that prefers story divorced from the original Star Wars movies. It was much more fun for me as an adventure of the week with characters I've never heard of. I didn't need a sweeping saga

 

[DeathyBoy]

In that case I would have simply preferred they never explored Luke, Leia or Han's story in the sequel trilogy. Not only would that leave their fate up to the imagination of the audience, but it would have made Luke's cameo in The Mandalorian even more impactful because we wouldn't have a clue what he's up to and it would excite the imagination even more.

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It's testing the waters, you'll get that Luke series yet.

 

[Veelk]

It does adhere to continuity though?

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Do you think people who are critical of fansevice are critical because it contradicts continuity?

 

[AnimaRize]

But that's what I don't get, if you grew up and were inspired by Luke then clearly you're well into adulthood now. You've lived, you've made mistakes, and you've moved beyond such narrow concepts as good and bad. So it's weird y'all don't relate to Luke, who's done likewise and made huge mistakes but, when push comes to shove, is more heroic than he's ever been.

I just find it weird that isn't inspiring to people, that it's never too late to become the best version of yourself.

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this is what a lot of people don't, yeah it's great to relate to heroes, but luke isn't a hero you relate to he's an ideal you strive for. Luke as a hero was someone you could strive to be that despite all your mistakes you still push forward to be better and try to make the world a better place, He is an ideal that you want to be. TLJ takes ideal and says that wrong "nothing you will do will make things better, you won't be better, and in the end it's better to not even try dream and push towards that ideal" and it takes a good portion of that movie telling you that the ideal is wrong before finally trying to bring it back for the climax and for many it too little too late.

Ideal heroes exist to be inspirations that no matter where you are, who you are, and where you come from you can make a difference, you can become that ideal, Ideal heroes aren't heroes you relate but heroes you strive to be

 

[Sephzilla]

Do you think people who are critical of fansevice are critical because it contradicts continuity?

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Sometimes I think those people are just bitter humans who hate seeing other people smile.

 

[Deleted member 18400]

Reading anything about Star Wars from its "Fans" these days is a lesson in stupidity.

Honestly, I think this is the last time I click on anything with Star Wars in the title. It's just so sad to see the negativity and constant bitching from the fans. Why any actor would agree to be in a Star Wars production is beyond me.

 

[Koklusz]

Really weird to see the narrative that Mendelson is some sort of Armond White esque contrarian for a take that's honestly pretty common?

I liked the Film Crit Hulk review myself

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While I agree that dragging out Luke was lame and lazy, I don't agree with the assessment that the entire season was a dud. This show is made by Dave Filoni as much as Favreau, and making the first season self-contained, only to connect it to the rest of the franchise is something that Filoni also did with Rebels. The moment we were shown dark saber it was reasonable to expect Bo Katan and Ahsoka to show up, and people were expecting Boba Fett since the beginning.

These shows were always laying fan service thick since the beginning, but also balanced it with fresh and weird stuff that would never have got in the movies (like that one arc in CW where Anakin essentially becomes a sex slave for the queen of the cat people lol). Mandalorian is no different, but Hulk acts like you either are creative or pander to the fans, and it's impossible to do both at the same time.

 

[AnimaRize]

Reading anything about Star Wars from its "Fans" these days is a lesson in stupidity.

Honestly, I think this is the last time I click on anything with Star Wars in the title. It's just so sad to see the negativity and constant bitching from the fans. Why any actor would agree to be in a Star Wars production is beyond me.

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only on this site and we all know why, we can't agree on that one movie, several people want star wars to follow that movie's direction, and several don't

 

[CloudWolf]

I'm having fun with the show, and it's giving fans what they want, that isn't a bad thing.

What I do have an issue with is that giving the fans what they want is somehow a free pass to bad writing. There so much awful writing, poor pacing, and just contrived plot points in the Mando but fans just get angry AF cause "ITS STAR WARS". Turn off your brain entertainment, because who cares that this doesn't make sense, OMG ITS FUCKING BOBA FETT KILLING DUDES OMGGGGGGG

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This is my position on the show in general. I enjoyed season 2 despite my issues with the overreliance on nostalgia, because there is that part of my brain that goes 'Forget all those film theories and critics, you think Star Wars is fucking cool'.

However, I do have an issue with the show when it puts that nostalgia over actually providing good storytelling or closure to arcs. My issue with Luke in Mandalorian isn't that Luke shows up, it's that Luke shows up and this immediately invalidates anything the main characters might have been doing before that. The entire episode builds up to a showdown that never happens because Luke shows up and it's more important to show Luke destroying stuff than it is to have our heroes have their moment of glory.

Like someone else in this thread already mentioned, they set it up perfectly:

- They had the early fight of Mando vs the Dark Trooper showing that they're hard to fight, but not impossible to beat
- They gave the heroes the Darksaber, which seems specifically introduced to kill tough enemies like that
- You have Baby Yoda free who might finally be able to use his force powers to their full extend (something that has been teased over the course of the show)
- And you have three Mandalorians ready to kick ass together

And then... Luke shows up and all those above mentioned things don't matter anymore. They do absolutely nothing and then the episode ends. See you next year! It's dumb plotting and robs the viewers of a great action setpiece.

Incidentally, the Darksaber now also seems like a bit of a joke (at least, if you've only watched Mandalorian), since it's built up like this immensely powerful weapon, yet the only time we see it used is against Mando who just shrugs every single hit off like it's nothing because the dude just happens to have a full armor of the only metal that it can't cut through.

 

[Osahi]

this is what a lot of people don't, yeah it's great to relate to heroes, but luke isn't a hero you relate to he's an ideal you strive for. Luke as a hero was someone you could strive to be that despite all your mistakes you still push forward to be better and try to make the world a better place, He is an ideal that you want to be. TLJ takes ideal and says that wrong "nothing you will do will make things better, you won't be better, and in the end it's better to not even try dream and push towards that ideal" and it takes a good portion of that movie telling you that the ideal is wrong before finally trying to bring it back for the climax and for many it too little too late.

Ideal heroes exist to be inspirations that no matter where you are, who you are, and where you come from you can difference, you can become that ideal, Ideal heroes aren't heroes you relate but heroes you strive to be

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Do you actually realise how basic storytelling works? In most story types you see heroes struggling, reacting in the wrong way to their problems and obstacles, untill they find a moment of insight (where they realise what they want is not always what they need), and are finally able to fix the problem. Where a story ENDS is where it's conclusion and message lays. Along the way we struggle with them. Sometimes we realise they're wrong and hope they'll reach that insight, sometimes we reach that insight with them. In the end we get a cathartic moment, because we relate.

If Luke becomes the legend he is at the end and steps into his role as inspirational hero, then it's because the movie tells us that he needs to become that legend, because people need examples as an inspiration to umtimately grow beyond. TLJ never says what you says it does. Never. Luke says those things yes, untill he reaches his insight. Thus ultimately the movie telling us he was WRONG.

Stories often go through thesis, antitheses and synthesis. The thesis is basically Reys viewpoint at the beginning: we need Luke to come and save us, because he is the hero and he will do the job for us and will guide is. The antitheses posed by Luke is: fuck that. You don't need me. I'll only bring misery. You're wrong to expect from me I'll save you. The synthesis is: Luke doesn't need to be the hero doing the job for a new generation, he needs to inspire a new generation to step into his footsteps and grow into themselves from that inspiration, which is the conclusion Luke reaches and acts upon, thus being the message of the movie.

EDIT: if you project your argument on other stories you'd get stuff like this: The Lion King tells us Simba is right to run away from his responsibilities! Hakuna matatah and all! Only to pedal back at the end, too little to late!
or
Inside Out is about how happiness is the most important emotion and that you should try to be happy all the time and push sadness away. Until they backpeddle at the end, but then it's too little too late!

 

[AnimaRize]

posted when i wasn't ready

 

[Vincent Alexander]

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[abellwillring]

Enjoyed season 2 quite a bit but it was a step down from season 1 imo. Scope and possibilities just felt so much smaller and Mando seemed like a supporting character.

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That is a wild take to me. Season 1 was so incredibly inconsistent in every regard. Tone, story and quality. Half the episodes were average at best and the one where Fennec is introduced was honestly bad. Bobby Cannavale's son was the worst actor I've seen on TV in.. forever? This season was immeasurably better in every single way IMO. Like.. I honestly cannot fathom the idea of thinking s2 was a step down. I'm reeling at the thought.

I love Star Wars personally and have seen all the films since the re-releases in 97 on Day 1. I don't care a lick about extended universe stuff and I've never seen any of the cartoons (nor will I since there are too many for me to feel interested in getting caught up) -- all of the lore stuff they're calling back to in this series is irrelevant to the viewer who doesn't know it. It just adds something for those who do. It stands alone, comfortably.