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Final Fantasy XII - Does it still hold up?
- Thread starter Vesper
- Start date
I love it. Played it for the first time last year thanks to the remaster.
Ivalice is such a cool place to me, and I'm usually into sci-fi more than fantasy. I liked the story because it was plot driven more than character driven (character as in people in your party). I adore the Gambit system because I constantly tinkered with it throughout my entire playthrough. A brilliant Gambit can fall to shambles in a boss fight and require improvisation.
My only complaints were it's strange layout of its world. And yeah Vaan & Penelo don't need to be in the story but they don't ruin the experience by any means. I think they're mostly there to ask questions about the universe to the older characters and have them answer them for the player.
Ivalice is such a cool place to me, and I'm usually into sci-fi more than fantasy. I liked the story because it was plot driven more than character driven (character as in people in your party). I adore the Gambit system because I constantly tinkered with it throughout my entire playthrough. A brilliant Gambit can fall to shambles in a boss fight and require improvisation.
My only complaints were it's strange layout of its world. And yeah Vaan & Penelo don't need to be in the story but they don't ruin the experience by any means. I think they're mostly there to ask questions about the universe to the older characters and have them answer them for the player.
The half-way complaint doesn't seem to apply to my experience. I love it all. The only part I find tedious is the Memory mini-game with matching people up in the city. It just comes off as padding. Great replay value. Instantly joined the handful of games that are permanently installed on my PS4.
FFXII is a fantastic game and one of the top 5 in the series imo.
-Ivalice is a great setting
-Sakimoto on music
-Yoshida on character design
-Story/Characters aren't as good as other Matsuno works due to his leaving partway through development, but still engaging
-Gambit system is excellent and works very well for a more exploration oriented game with wide open spaces
-Phenomenal localization with outstanding dialogue, voice acting, and voice direction
-Hours upon hours of fun side content
I love this game.
-Ivalice is a great setting
-Sakimoto on music
-Yoshida on character design
-Story/Characters aren't as good as other Matsuno works due to his leaving partway through development, but still engaging
-Gambit system is excellent and works very well for a more exploration oriented game with wide open spaces
-Phenomenal localization with outstanding dialogue, voice acting, and voice direction
-Hours upon hours of fun side content
I love this game.
Hmm... who to believe...
Not anyone who says worst main numbered FF and then cites XII rather than XIII.
I absolutely loved the Gambit system and the open world-ness, but I could not get into the story.
Never played X or XII so the ports to Switch next year are on my list of priorities, unless others like Octopath are way cheaper and people here were openly not recommending FF.
Never was able to finish it back when it came out, but the Zodiac Age additions really enhance the game and make it stand out as one of the best in the series.
Final Fantasy XII came at a weird time where the next gen was on the horizon, and it had to come out after FF10 which introduced a whole new generation of players to final fantasy, and in which its main hook was a specific brand of discount, anime-like melodrama about love and the power of friendship. FF12 on the other hand tried to go back at a more "classic" brand of Final Fantasy that is more focused on geopolitics and believable human interactions (see: FF6, 7, 9), but with the veneer of Matsuno that makes it closer to FFT. The issue is that the vast majority of people who likes FFT is nothing compared to the vast audience for mainline FF. So inserting Matsuno's brand into the mainline series is like telling people to enjoy a 10-part hardcore fantasy book series when the only thing they're used to read is the Harry Potter book series. Just look at the amount of people getting into a fit just thinking about how there always was politics in their video games. People doesn't want to think about social classes, oppression and racism. They want escapism. Vaan is super hated even though he is the character that cements the kind of world they're in, and the discrimination they face from the Empire. Most people doesn't want to do with any of that shit.
Furthermore, Final Fantasy XII's lack of hand-holding and heavy use of foreshadowing is one that trusts the player to pay attention and take the time to soak up the world around them. Take FF10 again, you could skip any discussion with any NPC and still understand everything fine, they are for the most part irrelevant. This is not the case with 12, which is also something that works against him as it does borrow from classic western RPGs on that front. NPCs have a lot to say, and they offer new dialogue after most story events. But, no one cares about doing this except for the people who are dedicated.
The game was clearly ahead of its time, if only to see that other popular games like Dragon Age have been influenced by its battle system (and WRPG being inspired by JRPGs isn't common at all). It was never surpassed either in many areas, as the depth of the gameplay has never been matched in the Final Fantasy series since then. It might even be the very best gameplay system Final Fantasy has to offer alongside FFT and FF5. Its wealth of options allows you to do anything you want, in the way you want, with a lot of room for experimentation. Not to mention characters expresses a lot of personality through it too, as they ALL have 2 or more animations for *every* weapon types and there is a boatload of weapon types in this game. It offers a playstyle for everyone because the gameplay system is also not railroaded. You choose the battle speed, the gambits to put, whether or not the game pauses when you choose actions, and then you can get in the very granular : the charge time of every weapon, what character is faster with this weapon type, what spell should I use in what weather, changing weapons when the weather is windy as that affects accuracy, and so forth. It just never ends, and it's a great thing for people who wants an involving gameplay system that *remains* involving through the end. Again, very different from what came before with FF10, and the end-game doesn't consist of spamming quick hit to victory either. This is also why I roll my eyes when people keeps repeating the same "it plays itself" meme. If you willingly spend time to go through the effort to be on full automation, to then complain about it, then this is my answer
And I think during these 13 years, it's very clear that "freedom" is not something that is sought among a subset of the Final Fantasy fanbase, which shouldn't be surprising at all, but it needs to be said. That I see so many people working against their enjoyment is a bit baffling, and understanding the reception of FF12 is also understanding why JRPGs are working hard to remove that agency, and only offer the illusion that you have it. A lot of people simply doesn't want to be free to do what they want.
So would it be better received ? I mean FF12 was a critical darling during its release. And the 2017 release shows that it is still the same behemoth as it was before. There is also a very clear shift in opinion, you wouldn't have found the same amount of praise back in the old forum in a similar thread. I'd say FF12 improves as time goes on, because it offered a direction of the genre that becomes more and more interesting to look back on, and it's becoming even more relevant as other mainstream JRPGs are simply not able to match in terms of "relevant" content, as opposed to the sheer amount of uninteresting time-wasters you're provided in other games. FF12 was a JRPG with a real amount of 50 hours of tangible content, that's not something you would see often in the same space. And at the end of the day, you're still getting Ivalice, the best universe the FF series had to offer, the incredible music by Sakimoto (which was so maligned back then, it was ridiculous to see the amount of people who couldn't get over the lack of Uematsu), and some of the best art design in the genre (Rabanastre, Bhujherba).
Furthermore, Final Fantasy XII's lack of hand-holding and heavy use of foreshadowing is one that trusts the player to pay attention and take the time to soak up the world around them. Take FF10 again, you could skip any discussion with any NPC and still understand everything fine, they are for the most part irrelevant. This is not the case with 12, which is also something that works against him as it does borrow from classic western RPGs on that front. NPCs have a lot to say, and they offer new dialogue after most story events. But, no one cares about doing this except for the people who are dedicated.
The game was clearly ahead of its time, if only to see that other popular games like Dragon Age have been influenced by its battle system (and WRPG being inspired by JRPGs isn't common at all). It was never surpassed either in many areas, as the depth of the gameplay has never been matched in the Final Fantasy series since then. It might even be the very best gameplay system Final Fantasy has to offer alongside FFT and FF5. Its wealth of options allows you to do anything you want, in the way you want, with a lot of room for experimentation. Not to mention characters expresses a lot of personality through it too, as they ALL have 2 or more animations for *every* weapon types and there is a boatload of weapon types in this game. It offers a playstyle for everyone because the gameplay system is also not railroaded. You choose the battle speed, the gambits to put, whether or not the game pauses when you choose actions, and then you can get in the very granular : the charge time of every weapon, what character is faster with this weapon type, what spell should I use in what weather, changing weapons when the weather is windy as that affects accuracy, and so forth. It just never ends, and it's a great thing for people who wants an involving gameplay system that *remains* involving through the end. Again, very different from what came before with FF10, and the end-game doesn't consist of spamming quick hit to victory either. This is also why I roll my eyes when people keeps repeating the same "it plays itself" meme. If you willingly spend time to go through the effort to be on full automation, to then complain about it, then this is my answer
And I think during these 13 years, it's very clear that "freedom" is not something that is sought among a subset of the Final Fantasy fanbase, which shouldn't be surprising at all, but it needs to be said. That I see so many people working against their enjoyment is a bit baffling, and understanding the reception of FF12 is also understanding why JRPGs are working hard to remove that agency, and only offer the illusion that you have it. A lot of people simply doesn't want to be free to do what they want.
So would it be better received ? I mean FF12 was a critical darling during its release. And the 2017 release shows that it is still the same behemoth as it was before. There is also a very clear shift in opinion, you wouldn't have found the same amount of praise back in the old forum in a similar thread. I'd say FF12 improves as time goes on, because it offered a direction of the genre that becomes more and more interesting to look back on, and it's becoming even more relevant as other mainstream JRPGs are simply not able to match in terms of "relevant" content, as opposed to the sheer amount of uninteresting time-wasters you're provided in other games. FF12 was a JRPG with a real amount of 50 hours of tangible content, that's not something you would see often in the same space. And at the end of the day, you're still getting Ivalice, the best universe the FF series had to offer, the incredible music by Sakimoto (which was so maligned back then, it was ridiculous to see the amount of people who couldn't get over the lack of Uematsu), and some of the best art design in the genre (Rabanastre, Bhujherba).
Absolutely. In fact, with all of the changes and additions to TZA, I think it's the best final fantasy. I can't believe more games haven't implemented a similar system to the gambit system.
dunno about that: I replayed FFV some months ago and it holds up just fine. It's the PSX trilogy that it's kinda awkward now.
And the FOV which might be the best change via modding for that game.
I think there's an enormous difference between OG FFXII and the Zodiac Age. When i first played FFXII i didn't think much of it, but when i played Zodiac Age last year it became one of my favorite games of all time, simply incredible.
The 2x speed and job system makes everything click, the game was 10 years ahead of its time but held back by the PS2.
The 2x speed and job system makes everything click, the game was 10 years ahead of its time but held back by the PS2.
in a way it was ahead of it's time, in a way it very much feels like a ps2 era jrpg. even with Zodiac Age it felt like i was playing something from 12 years ago (though from a technical perspective it aged and was remastered great)
and that's not getting into issues with the story obviously affected by development issues, but i can take or leave it to a extent; not every game needs a sweeping narrative
so it's kind of a wash with me
and that's not getting into issues with the story obviously affected by development issues, but i can take or leave it to a extent; not every game needs a sweeping narrative
so it's kind of a wash with me
FFXII doesn't possess the soul of the franchise, it's doesn't feels like a main numbered FF game.
I actually think it was ahead of its time when it first released, and I loved it so much more when I played it recently than when I first played it. I just didn't "get" it then. Now I think it's absolutely brilliant.
I honestly wish the people working on FFXVI would look at XII and XIV for systems and mechanics inspiration, instead of crap like XIII and XV.
I honestly wish the people working on FFXVI would look at XII and XIV for systems and mechanics inspiration, instead of crap like XIII and XV.
Rumors has it that a part of the FF14 team split up to make FF16, and some of the staff were the ones who worked on FF12. I wish I had Koozek's catalogue of receipts to find the post Duckroll made about it.
You keep saying that but you're not an authority on this soul. Everyone sees this soul differently.
God, that would be so fantastic. I really hope that's the case.
Agreed. The Zodiac Age fixed most of its issues too. My only problem with it is Ridorana. Fuck that place. "We don't have a proper final dungeon - what to do? Let's just make the penultimate location last forever and a lifetime!"
Gatekeeping is the worst.
Really enjoyed it, specially The Zodiac Age at an older age. The interior of house, streets, tapestry etc. was something i really took a look at…
I recall that some of the specific phrasing and vocabulary in the English localization gave me a strong impression that they were fans of the ASOIAF books when I played the original at release. "Kingslayer" and "mummer" for example, IIRC.
Zodiac Age and the original still both have the distinction of being my favorite FF game from a gameplay perspective. I didn't find myself as fond of the story as some of the other entries, though, but I think it's still an extremely strong entry in my overall ranking because I personally think it's a blast to play.
That was pretty much me. Seven years later I grew up and came around to understand that FF12 appealed to my tastes evolving. Now 7 more years after and I just love it more and more.
Top 3 PS2 game for me and Zodiac Age made it even better. I loved this game, can't really say the same for any other Final Fantasy game I've tried (aside from Tactics).
Well anybody that says "worst" probably didn't play II, XIII or XV.
Somebody tell me if I'm wrong but the key changes in Zodiac Age were changes already made in the Japanese International version of the game in 2006/2007.
Maybe it just Zodiac Age made these changes more accessible to everybody?
Not exactly. It's based on International but with further enhancements. Zodiac Age allows for two jobs per character which is really nice and honestly is a game changer and for the better. It also fixed spell queuing (PS2 hardware limitations are obviously no longer an issue), added auto save and fast travel, and some new bosses at the end of the game among a lot of other things. The game balance was tweaked too.
This lists all the differences between versions of the game:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XII/Version_differences
I'd say the OG is terrible and the TZA version is great.
Although I dunno but I don't really like the feel of this game in terms of aesthetics and tone. It's not what I expected coming from FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, and FFX.
Heck I like the aesthetics and tone more of FFXIII than FFXII's.
Although I dunno but I don't really like the feel of this game in terms of aesthetics and tone. It's not what I expected coming from FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, and FFX.
Heck I like the aesthetics and tone more of FFXIII than FFXII's.
This and 10 are the only two that I sought out every characters' ultimate weapon and every summon. 12 was high on the political drama but the story was really well thought out, the battle system was cool, and hunting notorious monsters was entertaining.
you have good taste
Those are the two best FFs
I would go FF6 first and FF12 just a fraction behind