Final Fantasy VII Remake Intergrade Open Spoilers

[Broseph]

Ive seen this or more people acting like Second Cloud won't play a role.

Thing is a second Cloud makes a lot of sense when you think of it from Sephiroth lore perspective. As it stands Sephiroth doesn't give a shit about Zack, and even Zack's main rival was set up as Genesis.

Cloud though is a strong link between them both and if Cloud is traveling with Zack then it brings Zack to Sephiroth and the reverse as well.

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Yea from that standpoint I guess it makes sense but I don't really see why we need another Cloud to do that. Zack could arrive at Sephiroth simply because he is following Aerith and the rest of the party and he eventually gets involved there. I don't think he needs his own Cloud for that

The only thing I can think of is that Sephiroth uses that Cloud to convince 'our Cloud' that he's a failed clone and not a real person or something. Otherwise, two Clouds involved in the story could get too goofy to take seriously for a lot of people

 

[Pwnz]

I'm glad square was able to update the game engine for next gen and create a few hours of new content in just a year. I think they've got momentum and part 2 won't be several years away. Maybe early 2023.

Was a concern of mine after the clusterfuck that was FF15 development with so much redone and unfinished work over 10 years.

 

[GenTask]

Well that sucks about Z, that takes away the emotional impact yet again and also Crisis Core. I'm going to be real let down if everyone is alive when this remake is finished making death meaningless with the 'lol just destroy fate' business.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Yea from that standpoint I guess it makes sense but I don't really see why we need another Cloud to do that. Zack could arrive at Sephiroth simply because he is following Aerith and the rest of the party and he eventually gets involved there. I don't think he needs his own Cloud for that

The only thing I can think of is that Sephiroth uses that Cloud to convince 'our Cloud' that he's a failed clone and not a real person or something. Otherwise, two Clouds involved in the story could get too goofy to take seriously for a lot of people

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While that is partially true it becomes a lot more obvious when we listen to Sephiroth's words.

He says that he won't allow Cloud to die, that he wants Cloud to join him. Also let's remember Cloud is the only individual left that has Pure S cells.

Whatever it is that Sephiroth has planned has deep connections to Cloud and no matter what Zack thinks/does he can't replicate that connection.

 

[Pwnz]

Lol also after finishing this and jumping into ratchet..moar boxes

 

[Deleted member 11421]

Yeah, world map is seen as "antiquated" so i'm hoping of an open world.

I'd be slightly disappointed if its just areas that connect -- those always seem like a cop-out to me.

But i'm really expecting to be no "overworld" just a taxi/car/chocobo that transports you to Kalm, the swamp, mithryl caves, etc...

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A detailed open world is probably what would make the memes about it taking 20 years to complete true. I don't even think a Rockstar sized team of 2000 people would be enough to do it justice. Especially considering the Highwind down the road.

As long as they make the locations we do spend time in better looking than some of what we got in the first game, I have no issue with it being more like a mix of X & XII's approaches to connected areas.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I am just worried they will adjust the ingame design to be closer to the cg when I really hope its the other way around and they make the cg designs look like the game designs but yeah cg Yuffie is really good

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Honestly Sanox, I am in a similar boat as you.

While the CG models aren't bad, I do hope they lean closer to in game models because they simply capture the characters well.

That said I'm also a heathen who thinks Advent Children Cloud looks better than CG Remake Cloud, so I can imagine that there are a lot of folks who would prefer the CG look versus the In Game Look.

 

[alphacat]

Well that sucks about Z, that takes away the emotional impact yet again and also Crisis Core. I'm going to be real let down if everyone is alive when this remake is finished making death meaningless with the 'lol just destroy fate' business.

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Agreed.

 

[RagnarokX]

Ive seen this or more people acting like Second Cloud won't play a role.

Thing is a second Cloud makes a lot of sense when you think of it from Sephiroth lore perspective. As it stands Sephiroth doesn't give a shit about Zack, and even Zack's main rival was set up as Genesis.

Cloud though is a strong link between them both and if Cloud is traveling with Zack then it brings Zack to Sephiroth and the reverse as well.

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Sephiroth considered Zack a friend. He went out of his way to do things to help Zack in Crisis Core. But when Sephiroth went insane all he cared about was completing Jenova's work, and he became obsessed with Cloud just because Cloud was the only person that managed to get in his way. Future Sephiroth seems more level-headed than his FF7 equivalent, so who knows how he'd try to manipulate Zack.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Sephiroth considered Zack a friend. He went out of his way to do things to help Zack in Crisis Core. But when Sephiroth went insane all he cared about was completing Jenova's work, and he became obsessed with Cloud just because Cloud was the only person that managed to get in his way. Future Sephiroth seems more level-headed than his FF7 equivalent, so who knows how he'd try to manipulate Zack.

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Oh I'm sure they will play that up and there will be a connection.

Im not trying to say they won't have anything. My point is Zack being alive doesn't mean that Sephiroth's going to suddenly prioritize Zack over Cloud. Nothing about Zack's revival changes the situation with Sephiroth and his focus on Cloud not just in VII/ACC but also in Remake.

It doesn't make sense that Zack's Cloud just fucks off and doesn't play an important role along side Zack.

 

[LowParry]

Maybe I was lucky enough to not play Dirge so those Deepground characters didn't make me like cringe or anything. I thought the Nero fight was really neat and character didn't bother me at all.

This whole Zack thing though is pretty interesting. And they sure as hell better be doing more of these combination attacks in Part 2.

 

[Deleted member 721]

i'm curious which route they will go with the remake to explain the cells stuff
crisis core route, the original game route or a new route

 

[GenTask]

So Zack's alive in the current-ass timeline? Is there gonna be a second Cloud running around in this world too?

Seems Nomura really turned FF7 into another outlet for his degenerate Kingdomheartsian nonsense.

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I'm so upset if this is the case. Why make a convoluted story more convoluted with wish-fulfillment? Makes no sense to me. If they really wanted to change the story they should have left out anything about timelines and fate ghosts. Death now seems meaningless. I've never played Kingdom Hearts but is this common in those games, as in characters thought to be dead are now alive because multiverses or something?

I don't know how much this stuff matters to people literally playing FF7 for the first time, and their first is the remake being introduced to these characters, compared to those of us have experienced every range of emotion of the original where timelines, dementors, and whatever are not present.

 

[Charred Knight]

Hit me up with some screenshots.

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This could come down to difference between the asstes done by the CG team and the game team. And they didn't show the roof so we can't see if there's hole from when Cloud fell lol

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Why the hell would the people making the game change the color of the XI symbol from Crisis Core, and Advent Children (while still using the symbol), but the CG team keep it relatively the same, and no one running the project noticed?

 

[Deleted member 81119]

Why the hell would the people making the game change the color of the XI symbol from Crisis Core, and Advent Children (while still using the symbol), but the CG team keep it relatively the same, and no one running the project noticed?

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Because it's a tiny detail and FFVIIR was made by hundreds of people.

 

[Arex]

Why the hell would the people making the game change the color of the XI symbol from Crisis Core, and Advent Children (while still using the symbol), but the CG team keep it relatively the same, and no one running the project noticed?

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The remake's (not zack's) church is the one from different timeline afterall! Lol oh well we'll find out in a couple of years :b
*edit* here's the concept art:

I'm now pretty sure it's just an oversight by the artists which nobody noticed lol, although I guess there's a non- 0 chance that it could be deliberate :p

 

[Deleted member 9135]

I dont think Zack is another timeline. I sinply think they are setting up Zack vs Avalanche

 

[Charred Knight]

Because it's a tiny detail and FFVIIR was made by hundreds of people.

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The final scene was deliberately made to have discussions. Zack enters the church, he sees people crying, and says "Aerith".. They are giving you more questions than answers because they want you to ask those questions.

The scene where Zack is revealed to be alive has a different Stamp design, they want the audience to notice the difference.

Now of course this could all turn out like BBC Sherlock, were they made it so the fans would have theories about various plot points, than mock those fans for coming up with theories instead of watching to see what cool thing with no explanation would happen next but I have more faith in the staff of FF VII Remake than BBC Sherlock.

 

[RagnarokX]

I mean, details like Stamp being different and the Sector 7 plate not being destroyed in the ending (which if it was a mistake they didn't fix in Intergrade) are bigger hints at it being an alternate universe.

 

[Deleted member 81119]

The final scene was deliberately made to have discussions. Zack enters the church, he sees people crying, and says "Aerith".. They are giving you more questions than answers because they want you to ask those questions.

The scene where Zack is revealed to be alive has a different Stamp design, they want the audience to notice the difference.

Now of course this could all turn out like BBC Sherlock, were they made it so the fans would have theories about various plot points, than mock those fans for coming up with theories instead of watching to see what cool thing with no explanation would happen next but I have more faith in the staff of FF VII Remake than BBC Sherlock.

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Yeah but Nomura is not known for his subtlety. If it's something you're supposed to talk about, it'll whoosh past the camera in slow motion.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I mean, details like Stamp being different and the Sector 7 plate not being destroyed in the ending (which if it was a mistake they didn't fix in Intergrade) are bigger hints at it being an alternate universe.

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Got to agree with this.

I think the church may hint at it, but honestly it's so vague and so easily could be a misdirect that we should be looking at other things as a way to prove/disprove multiple time lines/frames.

 

[CottonWolf]

Maybe I was lucky enough to not play Dirge so those Deepground characters didn't make me like cringe or anything. I thought the Nero fight was really neat and character didn't bother me at all.

This whole Zack thing though is pretty interesting. And they sure as hell better be doing more of these combination attacks in Part 2.

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Nero is basically an MGS character.

 

[Xenosaga]

Why the hell would the people making the game change the color of the XI symbol from Crisis Core, and Advent Children (while still using the symbol), but the CG team keep it relatively the same, and no one running the project noticed?

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I think things like this could happen because the CG team is technically not part of the main game's dev team, even if Visual Works are technically part of SE. I assume remake's designer changed it for whatever reason, but Visual Works guy probably thought it was using the same wood from previous games/movies so they might have used that.

 

[jdmc13]

Sephi is gonna ice Tifa this time.

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NGL, that is the one person that would hurt me the most which is why I'm going to live in fear now.

 

[RagnarokX]

Nero is basically an MGS character.

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Eh, he's basically a Deepground version of Vincent (Chaos).

Vampire/demon with guns.

Nero the Sable

I was short a few souls, and came to collect. Nero the Sable is an antagonist in Dirge of Cerberus -Final Fantasy VII-. He rarely leaves his brother Weiss's side in the ruins of Shinra Electric Power Company, and is not seen to have a friendly relationship with anyone else. Nero is Weiss's...

finalfantasy.fandom.com

Nero can manipulate and manifest darkness, gained from the Mako associated with the dark being Chaos, which he can use to move people and objects or absorb them into darkness within or without him. He can create objects and possibly people from the darkness, as seen when he makes copies of his guns. The Mako gives him enhanced versions of the abilities usually associated with a SOLDIER member. Nero's abilities require him to wear a suit which constantly supplies him with Mako. It is implied Nero's absorbing people into darkness kills them.

Shinra feared Nero's abilities, deciding to place the straitjacket-like restraints on him to suppress his abilities and chaining him in Mako Reactor 0. Nero was unable to free himself alone, but the restraints failed to suppress his abilities and have him surrounded by sparks and wisps of darkness. Nero is capable of free flight, much like Sephiroth, but slower.

 

[Sargerus]

We're totally going to get Gackt and that kind of plot in this remake series...

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THE WORLD NEEDS A NEW HERO

 

[Kalor]

I don't think minor CG details can be read into too much just because those are different teams. People from the main development team will do checks but I doubt they're checking every single background flourish for inconsistencies. The changes in the church are probably nothing. And the camera does deliberately call attention to stuff like the Stamp change or sector 7 plate while it doesn't with the church. If something was planned with the changes, they probably would have called attention to it more.

 

[LowParry]

Nero is basically an MGS character.

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Hmm. That may be true but I didn't get a 10 minute backstory from him before poofing him away.

 

[Lemony1984]

Why the hell would the people making the game change the color of the XI symbol from Crisis Core, and Advent Children (while still using the symbol), but the CG team keep it relatively the same, and no one running the project noticed?

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Thanks for that. That's such a minor thing I don't think I'd read much into it. It just looks like a bad texture in the first shot.Everything in the new ending points to Zack being in the same timeline as the others.

 

[Descendant]

Thanks for that. That's such a minor thing I don't think I'd read much into it. It just looks like a bad texture in the first shot.Everything in the new ending points to Zack being in the same timeline as the others.

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How does the new ending point to the same timeline? I see Zack being in an alternative timeline as nearly guaranteed to me.

 

[Lemony1984]

How does the new ending point to the same timeline? I see Zack being in an alternative timeline as nearly guaranteed to me.

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What about the new ending hinted that it was a different timeline?

Zack shows up at the church, filled with people from the slums after the plate fell, and Aerith isn't there cos she's off with the Main Party. It's the main timeline.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Thanks for that. That's such a minor thing I don't think I'd read much into it. It just looks like a bad texture in the first shot.Everything in the new ending points to Zack being in the same timeline as the others.

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It's obviously the same church, they just redid the model lol

 

[Descendant]

What about the new ending hinted that it was a different timeline?

Zack shows up at the church, filled with people from the slums after the plate fell, and Aerith isn't there cos she's off with the Main Party. It's the main timeline.

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You don't know those people were there, due to the plate falling...In fact in the FF7 Remake ending, the Sector 7 citizens were helping to rebuild Sector 7.

Also Zack beating those soldiers and carrying Cloud to Midgar happens well before the plate falls. Aerith could simply not be there for various other reasons not known to us yet.

 

[spunodi]

What about the new ending hinted that it was a different timeline?

Zack shows up at the church, filled with people from the slums after the plate fell, and Aerith isn't there cos she's off with the Main Party. It's the main timeline.

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Nothing contradicts the separate timeline theory either. Consider this (speculation):
-Zack survives
-Carries Cloud off to Midgar, maybe finds a hospital / hideout for him? Who knows
-Barret's Avalanche cell still blows up Reactor 1. Reactor 5 is also attempted.
-Shinra framing of this as Wutai conspiracy successful and sets narrative for plate fall
-Plate falls
-Zack goes to church to find Aerith, but only finds the plate refugees instead - hence his shock / dismay

May be holes in the above, but the broad strokes still hold I think.

 

[Lemony1984]

You don't know those people were there, due to the plate falling...In fact in the FF7 Remake ending, the Sector 7 citizens were helping to rebuild Sector 7.

Also Zack beating those soldiers and carrying Cloud to Midgar happens well before the plate falls. Aerith could simply not be there for various other reasons not known to us yet.

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Ok to summarise, nothing in the new ending explicilty points to it being a different timeline. Like I said.

 

[Descendant]

Ok to summarise, nothing in the new ending explicilty points to it being a different timeline. Like I said.

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Thats not what you said when I responded to you the first time.

Thanks for that. That's such a minor thing I don't think I'd read much into it. It just looks like a bad texture in the first shot.Everything in the new ending points to Zack being in the same timeline as the others.

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Either way we both won't know who's correct until Part 2 comes out.

 

[Lemony1984]

Either way we both won't know who's correct until Part 2 comes out.

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Ah yeah of course. But from my POV, there's nothing that points towards seperate timelines in the new ending. But there's always that Nomura wild card.

 

[Tengrave]

Still convinced it's a different timeline for Zack. The Stamp change and them walking past each other still sticks out the most. It's a timeline where we get to see what happens if he would of survived.

 

[curtismyhero]

Just beat Weiss and whew man. Gave me KH1 Sephiroth flashbacks. The fight was great but I REALLY hope SE figures out how to implement a proper quick retry in both the VR and minigame challenges.

 

[Coolsambob]

I'm thinking they left the Zack stuff open for another DLC.

Seeing as it would be set in Midgar and in a different timeline, it means they won't have to cover it in part 2 which, in theory, won't contain Midgar assets any more. Would be a good place holder for next year if part 2 is a way off.

 

[msia2k75]

So are people expecting Deepground to come back or not?

I know Nero dragging away Sonon implies the latter might be experimented on and used as a weapon against Yuffie but does that necessarily mean Nero and Weiss will come back in a major plot way?

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Of course it will. They went through the hassle of creating Weiss and Nero CGI render, creating their moveset, dub them in 4 languages. They won 't throw all that off just after a DLC. The rest of the gang will most likely appear too. Another thing is it seems they can be activated on command looking at how Scarlet uses a button to wake Nero up.

 

[Charred Knight]

Things pointing to a different timeline

1. Stamp has changed breeds
2. The damage to the Seventh Heaven bar sign is different
3. Aerith's church is different

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Maybe Aerith just went to Sector 5 for some errand and it's a fakeout

 

[RagnarokX]

Things pointing to a different timeline

1. Stamp has changed breeds
2. The damage to the Seventh Heaven bar sign is different
3. Aerith's church is different

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4. The party and alt Zack/Cloud just passing through each other.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

4. The party and alt Zack/Cloud just passing through each other.

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Would they though? Alt Zack comes from the south whereas the party goes east.

 

[RagnarokX]

Would they though? Alt Zack comes from the south whereas the party goes east.

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?


They stylize it like two realities intersecting but no interacting with each other.

 

[Imran]

What about the new ending hinted that it was a different timeline?

Zack shows up at the church, filled with people from the slums after the plate fell, and Aerith isn't there cos she's off with the Main Party. It's the main timeline.

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Aerith could be gone for a number of reasons. After Zack's death was confirmed, maybe the Turks felt a stronger need to protect her. With Zack still on the loose and supposedly now in Midgar, Hojo might have overruled them and demanded she be brought in immediately.

 

[Lemony1984]

Aerith could be gone for a number of reasons. After Zack's death was confirmed, maybe the Turks felt a stronger need to protect her. With Zack still on the loose and supposedly now in Midgar, Hojo might have overruled them and demanded she be brought in immediately.

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Sure. But nothing you've said there is supported by the ending. The ending implies it's the "main" timeline and offers literally no clues otherwise.

So we can speculate that it's a different timeline, but that's not supported by the ending.

 

[Imran]

Sure. But nothing you've said there is supported by the ending. The ending implies it's the "main" timeline and offers literally no clues otherwise.

So we can speculate that it's a different timeline, but that's not supported by the ending.

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It doesn't suggest it anymore than the original ending did.

The stamp packaging is the biggest hint that it's not the same timeline. There's been nothing contradicting it as a different timeline since that.

 

[Ovvv]

What about the new ending hinted that it was a different timeline?

Zack shows up at the church, filled with people from the slums after the plate fell, and Aerith isn't there cos she's off with the Main Party. It's the main timeline.

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You should check out this Reddit post on it. The church has inverted colors on the backside which is a pretty big tell along with the Stamp packaging from the first ending.

Reddit - Dive into anything

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