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Final Fantasy VI is better than VII
- Thread starter Uzumaki Goku
- Start date
Ah, this old debate again...
FFVI is fine and all, but gameplay-wise FFVII is much more interesting. Story-wise, I'm on the fence, as I'm not a fan of either big bad, although I think FFVII's world is more interesting (less fantasy, and a nice departure from the old FFs). FFVI has some very nice character-arcs, but so does FFVII (and FFVI has a bit too much characters, honestly).
Graphics-wise, FFVI aged way better, there is no contest, although FFVII does have some cool (not 3D) screens, but it was the beginning of 3D... It has its charm (kinda), but said charm has its limits, and those mushy polygons don't look very good nowadays.
FFVII has the distinction of making me cry for the first time ever while playing a video game. It's hard to topple that.
FFVI is fine and all, but gameplay-wise FFVII is much more interesting. Story-wise, I'm on the fence, as I'm not a fan of either big bad, although I think FFVII's world is more interesting (less fantasy, and a nice departure from the old FFs). FFVI has some very nice character-arcs, but so does FFVII (and FFVI has a bit too much characters, honestly).
Graphics-wise, FFVI aged way better, there is no contest, although FFVII does have some cool (not 3D) screens, but it was the beginning of 3D... It has its charm (kinda), but said charm has its limits, and those mushy polygons don't look very good nowadays.
FFVII has the distinction of making me cry for the first time ever while playing a video game. It's hard to topple that.
6 and 9 are both better than 7.
But that doesn't discount what 7 has accomplished, which still remains today as the most beloved and popular Final Fantasy to date. Sometimes it's not about being the best, it's just being at the right place at the right time.
But that doesn't discount what 7 has accomplished, which still remains today as the most beloved and popular Final Fantasy to date. Sometimes it's not about being the best, it's just being at the right place at the right time.
If we aren't going mainline FF. I think Final Fantasy Tactics is the best game in the series.
FF6 and FF7 has always been at the core of the "which one is best" debate in FF fandom (well, always since shortly after FF7). I don't think there's a compelling definitive argument for them, but 7 always resonated more with me overall, even if I find 6's world and music just lovely.
Specifically when it comes to pacing, I think 6 fumbles more, especially during the split-up parts. I find both pretty much on the same level in terms of gameplay, which is to say both are fine and nothing to write home about.
Specifically when it comes to pacing, I think 6 fumbles more, especially during the split-up parts. I find both pretty much on the same level in terms of gameplay, which is to say both are fine and nothing to write home about.
Many FF games are better than VII, but yeah VI is one of my favorites in the series.
I probably would have a more nostalgic view of VII now if the original release didn't have such a half-assed localization and I didn't hate the graphical style they chose to go with, but it is what it is.
I probably would have a more nostalgic view of VII now if the original release didn't have such a half-assed localization and I didn't hate the graphical style they chose to go with, but it is what it is.
XI is better than both of them (and easily the best FF ever) but yes, out of those 2 VI is better than VII. And I like VII!
VII had the benefit of better tech and it's presentation was more memorable because of that.
FFVI somehow had a ton of memorable characters, its own twists and dramatic moments that had not been done before. The Opera scene? The fucking opera scene? With sprites and that sound chip?
I played VI after VII so you'd think I'd succumb to nostalgia but this thread doesn't involve IV.
FFVI somehow had a ton of memorable characters, its own twists and dramatic moments that had not been done before. The Opera scene? The fucking opera scene? With sprites and that sound chip?
I played VI after VII so you'd think I'd succumb to nostalgia but this thread doesn't involve IV.
Totally being facetious there bud. But VII is better. The characters in VI are lame and Kefka is a scrub.
You can't equate Final Fantasy to Persona. C'mon man. I get where you're coming from, but FF VII is just a better overall game than VI. It's okay to be wrong sometimes.
VI is a better overall game than VII, but VII's impact can't be understated.
The better game isn't always the most important or influential one.
The better game isn't always the most important or influential one.
no
and don't get me started on the "VI, tactics and XII are thinking man's rpgs and I'm intellectually superior for preferring them" shit either
don't @ me, or I'll call the cops
and don't get me started on the "VI, tactics and XII are thinking man's rpgs and I'm intellectually superior for preferring them" shit either
don't @ me, or I'll call the cops
You described FF VII as being like gangser rap or MTV attitude and VI as more imaginative. So it sounded like you were saying FF lost its imagination and sold out like people do when bands starts becoming popular. A generic statement for olders fans of any media, and sorry it's got a bit more prententous with "lost its innocence" and I'm not trying hard to say why VII is better, just my thoughts. I also found the transition very natural to a neo world after the magictek and high tech Vector in VI's. Nothing was lost. It made the beautiful areas like the glacier, forests and canyons stand out more. VI wad already getting grittier with Kefka's massacres.
Another good example of subversion is how Cloud presents himself as this bad arse ex soldier with the gruff attitude, big sword who has a deep relationship with the antagonist and you find out who he is really is later. He's vulnerable, considerate to his friends and in his past never came close to following in Sephiroth's footsteps as a soldier. Sephroth doesn't really think much of him and sees him as just another potential Jenova zombie. I find this relationship more intellegent than just defeat the funny joker android.
Most of the towns definitely are generic, they don't look much different from some in the Mana series, Ultima 7/8, Crusader of Centy. Many other early 90s games. The playstation ones FF VII cities were really on a new level, awe insipring and the towns were charming aswell. In VI's world, oh another town that looks like the last one! It might have been good at the time but comparing them, VII's world is far better.
you're always entitled to your wrong opinions, and I know there's no convincing you, but i'd like to point the staggering conflations in them.
* First of all, what the hell is up with all the hate towards linear games just for the fact that they're linear? It's not like it was done for giggles; it serves the story and just adds up to the whole world building aspects.
*X Combat is the essence of JRPGs. It's smart, different, and strategic. The sphere grid is integrated tightly with it, and the options of different "classes" and its "messiness" on the grid is to encourage you to utilize all characters early on and branch out later on.
*Two fleshed out characters? That's just wrong. Say you don't like them. And the point about homogenous style literally makes no sense.
No Final Fantasy game is designed to drag you so strongly into its own world; with its systems, philosophy, languages, and mythos. No FF game develops its characters main in a convincing way, I mean I dare you to say you don't respect FFX's Yuna. How the flip do you create such a complex 16yo character?!
No FF game explored religious dogmatism to the fullest, in a way that directly parallels the real world. Btw, FFX was the main reason I became agnostic. Few games have that effect on people.
One of them has snowboarding, motorcycle arcade machines, chocobo racing/breeding, and a more endearing cast of characters. And the other doesn't.
how is that false exactly?
I'd say FF5 is the best "classical" Final Fantasy.
FF6 is the best 2D FF.
FF7 is the best modern FF.
Woolsey's original localization isn't perfect, either. He was still just one man on a tight deadline. Just like Chrono Trigger benefited from the script change of its DS port, FFVI could use the same treatment.
There's no defending VII's localization, but I think VI's gets way too much of a pass in kind.
Well, I'm happy to hear that.
I have no problem with linear games that don't keep players on an incredibly tight leash or alternatively use that leash to create an immaculately directed experience. Pretty much every prior Final Fantasy follows a majorly linear structure as well, they just do it in a method that allows more freedom to explore the world, even if much of the freedom is merely cosmetic. The problem in this instance is that almost every moment of the game constricts your freedom (unless you think walking off the corridor for 2 seconds to open a chest is freedom) and yet this obsessively directed structure doesn't yield any results in terms of better writing, better characters or better storytelling than prior games. It's more coherent for the most part, but it's also bland and lacking momentum or pulse. The best thing you can say about the linearity is that it forces a relatively even pace but one that rarely surprises or has the same dynamicism as prior games in the series. For a game that demands you play it exactly as the director imagined, it has shockingly little to say or to show you.
It's not smart or strategic at all, it's very simple. Square peg goes in the square hole. Round peg, round hole. Very few JRPGs have tactical or strategic combat systems or character building, and FFX is no exception. I've been using all the characters, branching out, and doing everything I presume is expected and it doesn't matter when you can stick to Tidus, Auron and Lulu/Wakka the entire game and it still plays itself. Saying it's the essence of JRPGs is more a condemnation of JRPG combat systems than it is praise toward FFX's specific puzzle-lite implementation of them imo. It's not terrible by any means, but once you've figured out the basic premise an hour or two in there are very few surprises after that (save for the aforementioned bosses)
I don't like them as result of them being poorly fleshed out, there's not much to like or even develop a strong opinion on outside of Yuna and Tidus. Compare the party in FFX to the party in FFIX and tell me FFX has a well rounded cast full of well-developed characters. In IX everyone has unique motivations, perspectives, backstories and personalities save for perhaps Amarant and Eiko. In FFX everyone revolves around Yuna's hero quest, with the major expressions of personality being things like
-Auron knows your daddy
-Wakka is a racist
-Rikku is Al Bhed
While I understand that they're guardians and thus obliged to be motivated by serving Yuna, there's very little in the way of development and characters like Lulu and the blue boy may as well not exist for most of the game. The point is that they don't feel independent agents, they only exist insofar as the game needs them to exist in order to either convey aspects of world building, serve Yuna's quest or serve Tidus and his fish-out-of-water plotline. At no point do they develop to the level of characters from prior games like VI, VII or IX and generally fall much closer to VIII's design philosophy of having the party merely exist to serve the love story at the core.
You could argue that "of course they only exist to serve the story", but previous games managed to have characters convey themes and progress the plot without having them feel like cardboard cutouts. Sure, you can imagine Wakka playing Blitzball and being racist before you came along, but what else is there? Characters can be proxies for thematic concepts while simultaneously feeling like they exist in the world for reasons outside of contextualizing things for the audience.
She wants to do greater good because she's an altruist and puts others before herself, the selfless martyr who learns there's more to life than that through Tidus and his outsider perspective. Again, it's a very broad archetype that's as old as storytelling itself and the game makes almost no attempt to distinguish her from any number of similar fictional characters. Her age is irrelevant in the scheme of things as far as I can tell and she has a very transparent character arc that doesn't deviate whatsoever from the way those character tend to be portrayed.
As to the systems, philosophy, language and mythos, while that stuff is neat I guess we have to agree to disagree about the degree to which it pulls us in. The lore for Yevon is cool, and there's obviously a lot of effort put into making the world feel comprehensive but I guess I'm just not that impressed by a base level allegory for religious fervor that has nothing to say about dogmatism other than the most basic and elementary observations stretched out to dozens of hours. It's bad to believe things blindly, think for yourself, be your own person, you can learn things from people different than yourself, etc. They're well meaning, positive messages, but they're also a dime a dozen in JRPGs even if they don't always take the front seat as primary themes.
I'm glad the game could have an impact on you and your worldview, but I imagine that has to do with when you played it and how it related to your own life as opposed to the quality of its critique on organized religion or radical belief systems.
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VI and Tactics are the games everyone says are the best but I feel like no one really ever played IRL.
As far as i asked the friends who are stil gaming, most never tried to give 6 a try. They tend to say=it is a nintendo game, which is why the story cant be fleshed out.
my intention wasn't to generalize.
That doesn't work because VI was realeased on a lot of platforms. VII got ps and pc.
The major difference between VI and VII is that halfway through VI all hope is lost. You have to rebuild after everything has been destroyed. You get to a point where you feel unstoppable, and are then stopped dead in your tracks. It's unlike anything ever seen in Final Fantasy and It's rare even to this day for any JRPG to make you feel completely hopeless and lost like VI does. It's anything but "cliche."
The best parts of VII are simply a revenge/redemption story. All of the characters hate Shinra/Sephiroth and want to protect the planet because of their own personal reasons. Cloud for money intitially, but later for Zack, Aerith and for them exposing him to Mako and making him their puppet. Barret for Marlene and Dyne, Yuffie for all of Wutai and the war Shinra raged on it.... Cid and the space program, Vincent and the Turks, Aerith and how the Turks/Shinra conducted research on her.... It goes on and on. It doesn't hold a candle to VI.
A lot of what you said about VII is from VI.. Terra is one of the last of her race if not the only half human half esper alive. Avalanche are the Returners who are a terrorist group that oppse the empire, The Shinra Power Company is just another empire that needs to be stopped that sucks the souls out of the planet... Celes goes through a major identity crisis as does Setzer... But then there's a ton of other stories that all work together to create a more well rounded story. Edgar and Siban's sibling rivalry, Lock's dead wife in which he longs to revive, Cyan's entire kingdom is poisoned by Kefka, Gau's father threw him into the woods and left him to die, and Kefka himself is basically the predecessor of the Joker from the Dark Knight... VI has an incredible cast with unforgettable villains that actually win. I can't even remember the last time that the bad guys win besides maybe Xenoblade Chronicles or FFXV (sorta).
Oh and those "plucky" characters as you call them are dismantled entirely. They are destroyed so that they can be reborn. It's almost as if Square was making fun of the "happy go lucky", "good guys always win" characters found in all JRPGs of the time and beyond. You don't really even get to meet these characters until they have to rebuild their world and by then you know exactly why you're fighting for them.
This feels like a nostalgia war.
Is there no one that has played both these games for the first time recently who isn't heavily affected by their fond childhood memories?
Is there no one that has played both these games for the first time recently who isn't heavily affected by their fond childhood memories?
I did and I didn't like either one. Chrono Trigger is far better than both
Could a majority of the localizations from that time period have been better in some way?
Yes, most definitely. That doesn't change the fact that FFVII had a more convoluted plot than FFVI and was just in need of a better localization.
Many of the characters definitely have revenge against Kefka and the empire too so that revenge sly against VII just sounds made up for the sake of criticism.
The world of ruin gives the characters a new challenge and levels and it was an interesting change of pace, but that's not subversive to their character or as interesting as when Cloud discovers he was just a plain guard who got a drop on Sephiroth, subverting the clasic archenemy plot that Kefka has, or when Aeris helps the planet decide its judgment in the cool ambigious ending. Wheras Terra may seem angelic at times too, her story is just a more cliched one of defeating the manic villian and accepting her origins. The returners are more like a typical band of rebels than the complex feelings we get when Avalance are blowing up buildings and harassing citizens. But overall the best moments of VII are not just about revenge.
The archetypes of VI may have been good at the time but don't really age well and that's what matters in this comparison. Characters like the charming Thief Locke, the cocky little sorceress Relm and the flamboyant pilot Setzer who has his own rules are just dull now. Characters with the tragedy of Cid's failed dreams with the rocket were a breath of fresh air, or a character who is just a bussiness man controlling a giant teddy bear and he's not just a novelty character. Even Yuffie who seems like a generic spunky thief but the sadness of her culture fading adds hidden depths.
In the end, Terra becomes like the chosen one, flying like an angel on the airship as the world restores itself, it's a typical payoff for a JRPG, another power fantasy. FF VII is more. It leaves you feeling like you've experienced a phenomenon as the lifestream raises and your imagination just guesses what Aeris has just done. Do the people deserve to be saved? This journey the characters were reaching the end of was a more thoughtful and pondering one.
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You are correct, but the Megaman Vs Megaman X battles come pretty close.
VI is the best Final Fantasy title of all time followed by X. VII is most memorable cause it is likely the first game people played in the series and everyone recognizes Cloud and Sephiroth. Tifa is extremely popular too but VI had the better cast and easily the better story. I have not met a single person that dislikes Kefka because he rightfully is the best villain in the entire series. Seriously, I even saw a thread here that said Shadowbringers is better than FF VI? Hahahaha shadowbringers was good but let's not get too crazy here.