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Digital Foundry: Assassin's Creed Valhalla Patch 1.0.4 - PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S - Has Frame-Rate Improved?
- Thread starter chandoog
- Start date
It's kind of a general expectation that a new console isn't going to be anywhere near its full potential for a while after launch.
Although this "tools" thing does seem to get overused a bit.
Uhh it does. Remember when we got 720p games wich ran poorly on the console. Then we got games like RDR2 and Gears 5.
Why is an A class professional like John responding to random fanboys on Twitter? My boy Dark1x just do your thing and let them waste their breath
Fanboys need to shut the hell up!
god
It happens here too unfortunately. We used to have a pretty decent sales data community but all of them have left and all that is left here are just create media armchair members. Honestly expect Dictator to move on as well.
Fanboys need to shut the hell up!
god
Seriously. I know it can be tough, but rise above. You're the experts. You're the pros. Let them wallow in their sour fanboy shit. Don't jump in it with them.
I guess lack of games to compare makes that we analyze games more than one time now. Also interesting that many seem not too notice lowe resolutions thanks to good scaling solutions. Guess this will help all generation. I wonder if this will stop the 'the most powerful console for multiplatform' talk, or will return if things change further into the generation.
Fanboys need to shut the hell up!
god
The ironic thing? John and Alex literally ASKED THEM not to bother them on Twitter anymore... Yet, they keep doing it. Fucking assholes, the lot of them!
Dark1x, John, I don't know if you are reading this, but please just block these people. Don't bother debating, you will never get through to them. They get a kick out of your reactions and in the end you'll just feel worse. They're poison, man... So just block them, for your own sake.
Love John, but he's his own worst enemy. His colleagues don't get too deep into the fanboy comments like he does. He either needs to ditch Twitter or get some help with emotions that make him need to comment.
They all will unfortunately. They are posting less and less and I don't blame them.
Curious what your and John's thoughts are about memory management being a possible cause for some of the unexpected performance differentials we have seen. Have you received any more granular information as to what the dev tools are doing that's causing more work or issues for developers? I'm wondering if perhaps the API or drivers aren't properly managing the memory and forcing developers to attempt to manually manage the allocation and scrubbing if ram.
Alex and John should really start ignoring people on Twitter and other platforms(including here). They are just reporting on what they are seeing. But brain dead people will blame them somehow and harass them. It's disgusting.
Fanboys need to shut the hell up!
god
The tools thing is a fact, time will tell how much difference it will make though.
I still find the result to be very disappointing on Series S. This is a previous generation game.
I can only guess for example from NPD Mat Piscatella, he tried to become a thing here posting some of his opinions on sales. He wasn't given room to share his opinion on what he thought would be big without fans using his words as ammo.
It's a bug.
The performance advantage for PS5 has been interesting but it's very slight. This gen is going to be very even as far as performance goes so I don't know why people are getting so worked up about it.
After playing valhalla and tsushima, im convinced that rockstar used actual sorcery to get their LoD transitions in RDR2 to look so seemless. In valhalla, everything beyond 20 feet looks like textureless muck. Hell, you can see your character switch LoD models by just pulling the camera in a little.
Oh I'm not saying it's not real. Just that I'm not sure it can be used to explain literally every issue XSX is having right now. 🤷🏻♂️
Agreed...
but the thing is that that applies to all platforms, not just the XSX.
The way I see it, is that no platform is its best right now, but the PS5 is in a better state than the Xbox consoles. That whole give the tools time argument is the most stupid thing I have been hearing of late, it's not false, but it's blatantly ignorant in how it's used. How the games run today, next month, 3 months from now... should be simply taken at face value. As opposed to this proposed theoretical tools improvements that would no doubt make everything better on the Xbox platforms "one day"...
If right now, it's the XSX performing better.. would anyone be talking about tools?
Both platform's tools would get better, devs would get better at utilizing each platform's strengths as time progresses. This is why I said that the main takeaway from this new patch is that we can see how devs could maintain parity between the two consoles regardless of who is the better performer.
I don't believe in that in a second. Dirt 5 dev said that tools are way more stable, mature and faster than XDK.
Yeah, the lighting in CB2077, at least on the pre-release footage so far, has a similar problem, shit appears right in front of you lmao.
Memory management for VRAM on PC is handled by drivers and API it is absolutely possible that the API/driver on the XSX is not managing the money as efficiently as the well iterated systems in place on OC to do this and this would potentially more RAM than the PC due to that.
Others here in the thread are saying that both pools of ram share the same channels which if true would mean that any access to the slower pool of RAM would dramatically reduce the available simultaneous bandwidth for the faster pool and may necessitate a larger memory footprint than the single pool setup for dedicated GPUs in PC.
TLDR: this isn't really an equivalent comparison but even assuming it is there are reasons the memory footprint in the console could be higher than a PC especially one with a dedicated split vram pool with an entirely separate channel for access
Can you point me towards some documentation or presentation regarding memory bandwidth during simultaneous access or the unique shader arrays/CUs? I'd be curious to read up
Indeed. Anyone who cares about this shit is a loser that needs a life.
Fanboys need to shut the hell up!
god
Either the PS5 is punching above its weight or the XSX isn't getting pushed to the max. Either way these comparisons have been the opposite of what I thought was going to happen. 20% is not a crazy difference in performance but it should definitely be helping the XSX have a leg on top of the PS5 in pretty much all the games. So far we've seen the console trade blows and PS5 come on top more often then not. I've read about the tools for XSX being late or something but is there a legit source for that?
cross gen games that ran poorly despite being 720p on current gen consoles?
oh yes, because asking nicely on the internet (Twitter no less) always works.
There are only two options to deal with idiots on Twitter: Ignore them or block them. They could even use that new feature that blocks anyone from interacting with your tweets except followers.
This is why I always thought it was weird for insiders/industry types to leave here and go to... Twitter, a place far more toxic than Era could hope to be. I think it had less to do with the fanboyism here (which still was a factor I'm sure) and more with wanting their own audience separate from Era.
GPU being clocked higher on PS5 is probably the reason. I imagine it's more complicated to properly saturate the XSX's additional CUs.
This is also why teraflops are a useless metric for gaming.
The Series S isn't designed with us enthusiasts in mind though. If I get another console this generation, it will undoubtedly be the Series X.
I made a thread about the impact it could have on future games and the answers I recieved from some devs and reliable insiders was:
It will seldom have an impact on the scope of a game. So as long as it sticks to 720p and doesn't affect the ambition of it's bigger 4K brothers, why should we care? The SSD and CPU on the thing will keep things interesting, albeit at much lower resolutions. If people buying it aren't bothered by it, neither should we be.
Unless of course... You own a Series S and were expecting higher resolutions? In which case... Sell it, buy one of the other two.
Lol definitely this. Just a bunch of fakes that have no clue what they are talking about. All that PS5 is ruined talk just to have both NX and DF say nope it's not. Laughable and embarrassing
The same reason we've lost so many industry people. Developers shouldn't need to even respond to accusations of being moneyhatted or be harassed for whatever decision they make, but console warriors will continue to be shitty. I can't even begin to tell you the amount of times I see people here doing this shit on Twitter in the most disgusting ways but pretend to be different here for obvious reasons, and of course you can't call them out for off-site behavior as that will make you catch a ban yourself (I learned my lesson a long time ago, lol).
People get tired and move on.
There is a problem with PS5 coming out of rest mode with this game that made the performance worse. John had that also and that was that tweet from him about. Later everyone realized it was a rest mode issues. And the performance was fine still.
Just out of interest, which areas have you both seen the resolution drop to a point it becomes blurry? I thought it was supposed to be a rare occurrence for it to drop to the lower bounds? I haven't tried it too much but went to a few of the more populated areas, did some raids and went to one of the more problematic areas in terms of performance and screen tearing and the image always stayed very crisp.
And others developers are saying the opposite. Phil Spencer is on record stating they wanted until AMD had its entire chipset ready before they finalized hardware. Which was much later than Sony.
I'm asking for examples of games that ran poorly at 720p at the beginning of this gen. My memory is a bit hazy (and I'm too lazy to go search lol) but I remember cross gen games were running for the most part at 1080p or 900p on current gen titles which is what they're running at right now or worse.
Arguing with stupid is like playing chess with a pigeon, you can play the best game of your life, but the bird will take a shit on the board and strut away like it won anyway.
Big fan of the digital foundry guys, but they really shouldn't respond to fanboys.
Big fan of the digital foundry guys, but they really shouldn't respond to fanboys.
There isn't a clear cut reason. Devil May Cry 5 for example on XBSX outperforms the Ps5 version in 4K quality mode but loses in performance mode which makes zero sense from a technical standpoint.
It's a learning curve with the hardware.
It's an early gen game. But also, just look at the specs. It's a 4 Tflop machine. There are architectural improvements of course but it is not a machine designed to bang out high resolutions. You are getting next gen feature set and framerate at essentially last gen resolutions.
It'll improve but we shouldn't expect miracles either.
Call of Duty Ghost, Battlefield 4, Dead Rising 3. That 720p resolution gate was not good for xbox one in the beginning. Later the xbox one versions of games became alot better.
Which others?
So, tools aren't a problem for a Capcom i presume
I realized to just wait for DF or NXgamer after the BOTW patch came out and everyone claimed the game looked worse as a result. Then they both came out and were like "naw, it looks identical". I had placebo effect too. Now I just wait for the experts to weigh in.
People here know enough to generally not say absolute non sense (though console launches really bring out the dumb) but there is still a chasm of difference between actual professionals and forum enthusiasts.
Huh, didn't know the games ran this poorly at the beginning of this gen. Hopefully the same happen this gen and game runs better than they do now.
Both are based on the same hardware architecture, but both companies customized the design. Moreover, those two platforms use different compiles both for game code and shaders, meaning that it's hard to compare the two.
I expected last generation games to be the only ones to reach 4k/60fps on the big machines; not a crazy expectation, it should even be the floor honestly. The Series S being roughly 1/3 of the Series X, if we go by the numbers, expecting 1080p/60fps isn't crazy either. I was on the market for an xbox series S, but I'm going to cautiously wait until next year to see if things improve or not.
The PS5 seems to roughly perform as expected however, but I have no interest in owning a PlayStation, or any next generation console without gamepass.
But so did PS4 games too. In the end the resolution difference between the Xbox One and PS4 never changed, it just swapped from being mostly 720p vs 900p at launch, to 900p vs 1080p later in the gen, to now being back to 720p vs 900p all over again.
It's funny how Ubisoft constantly gets shit on for their graphics and technology, but when their apparent incompetence can be weaponized in the console wars, all that is seemingly forgotten. Because hey, fucking physics aren't even valid anymore when you can secret sauce your way to justifying your purchase.
This is a previous generation game built on legacy technology. Both platforms could easily handle this game at 4k/60 if Ubisoft had more time to optimize their engine for the new systems. Why are you guys even bothering with this shit?
This is a previous generation game built on legacy technology. Both platforms could easily handle this game at 4k/60 if Ubisoft had more time to optimize their engine for the new systems. Why are you guys even bothering with this shit?