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SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
Yeah I don't think that's why they voted against Hillary.
Its for sure not solely the only reason - her gender played a far bigger role than anyone will give legit credit to. But, hatred for NAFTA has been a huge thing for the rust belt. Obama in particular used this as a weapon against Clinton in the '08 primaries to very great affect. Both Trump and Bernie used anti-NAFTA sentiment to great affect again in '16.

Thinking the rust belt is over NAFTA is foolish. These are communities which never recovered from it. And Trump is the guy who gets to say he killed NAFTA, while also getting to say Biden helped sign it.
 

Prodigal Son

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,791
it depends on how you define 'increasingly unpopular'. his unfavorables have been trending upwards for the past few months but in a way that's entirely typical of a high-profile candidate under attack and scrutiny. and he remains largely liked.
 

Bing147

Member
Jun 13, 2018
3,737
Honestly? Joe Biden really hasn't. Joe does wonders appealing to scared WWC voters, but the top of the ticket was Obama. Hes the one who got all the vetting.

Joe and his family have enough business interests in foreign countries where we are gonna see investigations, even if they don't lead into anything, get launched both here and abroad. Ukraine already announced an investigation into Joe & Hunter a week ago. You're gonna see stuff come out from the Biden's business interest in China as well. And Trump fears no retaliation for doing so - we impeached him for trying and it didn't work!

In all honesty, our best hope is the economy tanking and entering a recession. And I say this as someone who has no intention on voting for Joe Biden in the GE. This is the 'safe' choice Americans wanted right? Have at it! Enjoy Trump term 2.

Out of curiosity, what positions of Bidens do you think are worse than Trumps or worse than what we have now?
 

Rodderick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
Honestly? Joe Biden really hasn't. Joe does wonders appealing to scared WWC voters, but the top of the ticket was Obama. Hes the one who got all the vetting.

Joe and his family have enough business interests in foreign countries where we are gonna see investigations, even if they don't lead into anything, get launched both here and abroad. Ukraine already announced an investigation into Joe & Hunter a week ago. You're gonna see stuff come out from the Biden's business interest in China as well. And Trump fears no retaliation for doing so - we impeached him for trying and it didn't work!

In all honesty, our best hope is the economy tanking and entering a recession. And I say this as someone who has no intention on voting for Joe Biden in the GE. This is the 'safe' choice Americans wanted right? Have at it! Enjoy Trump term 2.

Trump actively campaigns for Bernie and has never even once attacked him. If we're talking about candidates who haven't been vetted, "rape essay" would likely be among the mildest shit thrown Bernie's way in the GE by Trump. Literally every evidence we have points to the GOP being incredibly confident about the oppo they have on him.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,197
Out of curiosity, what positions of Bidens do you think are worse than Trumps or worse than what we have now?

I'm just going to quote your big post so they can pick out exactly which things are worse than Trump:

Sitting here earlier today, I was thinking about different candidates positions and I realized of the major candidates from a week ago, I probably knew the least about Biden's supposed positions. That comes in part because he almost never talks about them, focusing a lot more on continuing the legacy of the Obama years instead of what he'll actually do. I decided I should at least know though if he's our guy so I went looking. On just a few of the major issues:

Child Care: Biden is for universal free Pre-K for kids who are 3-4.

Education: Biden is for two free years of community college or technical schooling. He also supports doubling the maximum value of Pell Grants and a student loan forgiveness program which will make it so you don't have to pay anything back on student loans if you are making under 25,000 a year. He also proposes a cap on the maximum amount annually at 5% of your income over 25,000 a year with full forgiveness after 20 years. So if you make 50,000 a year, only 5% of 25,000 is your maximum yearly contribution. That's 1,250 a year. He is also for using federal funds to even out the funding for all schools so that those in higher property tax areas don't receive more resources.

Environment: Ensure the U.S. achieves a 100% clean energy economy and reaches net-zero emissions no later than 2050 . He plans to do this by focusing on wind and solar energy.

Guns: He supports universal background checks, a gun buyback program, and an assault weapon ban.

Immigration: Supports DACA and DAGA path to citizenship. Wants to end workplace raids. Plans to increase worker VISAs. Restore the asylum system and end family separation. End for profit detention centers.

Reparations: Is open to it and has promised to have a committee to look into how this could be applied.

Minimum Wage: Supports a $15.00 an hour minimum wage

Family Leave: Supports 12 weeks of paid family leave

Sick Leave: Supports universal paid sick leave, though details on how much are scarce

Iran: Will rejoin the Iran Nuclear deal

Israel/Palestine: Will support a two state solution

Criminal Justice Reform: Believes nobody should be jailed for drug use alone, wants users to be sent for treatment if anything. Eliminate mandatory minimums. Eliminate the death penalty. Eliminate cash bail. A full end to private prisons. Guaranteed housing for those leaving prison. Supports full restoration of voting rights upon release.

Marijuana: Complete decriminalization and wants to release and expunge the record of anyone in jail for it now. True legalization to be left to the states.

Internet Access: Wants to invest 20 billion in funding to expand rural broadband access.

Statehood: Is for making both Washington DC and Puerto Rico States.

LGBTQ Issues: Supports Gay marriage, the Equality Act, and Transgender military service

Health Care: Ensure a public option is created which covers primary care without co-payments. Make sure those who would qualify for medicaid if their state would only expand coverage are offered premium free coverage on the public option. Plans to offer premium tax credits which will significantly lower costs for those who have insurance they would keep. Make in-network/out of network determined solely by location and not the doctor you see to avoid surprise billing. Repeal the law stopping medicare from negotiating drug prices. Allow consumers to import drugs from out of the country, stopping the current issue where often drugs are far more expensive in the US. Protect abortion rights. Restore federal funding to Planned Parenthood.

Some will argue that many of these are half measures compared to what Bernie wants to do. They're right on many of them. They are measures though. Every single one of them if far more than the Republicans want and we will get under Trump. Even better, these are mostly pretty safe positions to take in the Democratic Party today, thanks in part to Bernie's pushing the party left in recent years. If we can win the senate, these are all actually pretty achievable. And if Biden got half of this done, he'd have far and away the most successful presidency of my lifetime. Bernie first got into the race in 2016 to try to push the party left. He didn't think he could win, he was just trying to get some concessions. That's what winning looked like at the time. Look at that list and tell me he didn't win. Now if you actually care about Bernie's revolution, let's go out in November and get it done. Then once this is the new normal, we can work to push that new normal to the left. The next time someone tells you there's no difference between Trump and Biden, go ahead and show them this.

Biden is basically the same as Trump! /s
 

strikeselect

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,132
It just amazes me that Democrats are on the verge of nominating yet another Presidential candidate who voted in favor of the Iraq War. One of the big reasons Obama was so popular was his opposition to it. Trump is going to bring up that vote over and over just like he did with Hillary.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Honestly? Joe Biden really hasn't. Joe does wonders appealing to scared WWC voters, but the top of the ticket was Obama. Hes the one who got all the vetting.

Joe and his family have enough business interests in foreign countries where we are gonna see investigations, even if they don't lead into anything, get launched both here and abroad. Ukraine already announced an investigation into Joe & Hunter a week ago. You're gonna see stuff come out from the Biden's business interest in China as well. And Trump fears no retaliation for doing so - we impeached him for trying and it didn't work!

In all honesty, our best hope is the economy tanking and entering a recession. And I say this as someone who has no intention on voting for Joe Biden in the GE. This is the 'safe' choice Americans wanted right? Have at it! Enjoy Trump term 2.
Embarassing tbh

His foreign business shit has already been brought up and it's not great but it's not absolutely terrible either and it's already over with in terms of finding new info.

And the "hehe I'm not voting for my favored candidate, good luck to all those who suffer under Trump;)" shit is embarassing too. Imagine bragging about that. Couldn't be me
 

Deleted member 11637

Oct 27, 2017
18,204
Also, it was a lifetime ago, but Biden trounced Paul Ryan in the VP debate back in 12. Admittedly that was with 8 less years of brain decay, but he could well be better in a 1 on 1 debate. Being more consistently engaged will give his mind less room to wander

I'm terrified of Joe's ability to string sentences together in a debate with Trump. On the other hand, Donny isn't any more articulate, so debate performance could hinge on basic charisma. And then it's a fight between a human Golden Retriever and a man who uses the word "dog" as a perjorative.
 
Oct 28, 2018
573
Don't do this. It serves nobody.

Lol way to edit the words that I wrote to fit your narrative. If I saw someone limping onto the stage at a campaign rally I'd be very concerned about it and rightly speculate that there's something wrong with their leg. In this case I'm seeing symptoms and signs that are concerning and speculating that there might be something afoot. I'm just being honest here, I'm not playing a game where I ignore what's right in front of me to make everyone feel better.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
It just amazes me that Democrats are on the verge of nominating yet another Presidential candidate who voted in favor of the Iraq War. Trump is going to bring that up over and over just like he did with Hillary.
Did he actually bring that up over and over again?

I feel like he didn't. And anyone that frustrated with the Iraq war is gonna remember the Republicans were the ones who actually shaped the war. I'm not defending voting for it in any way or Biden's terrivle foreign policy in general but yeah.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,752
Lol way to edit the words that I wrote to fit your narrative. If I saw someone limping onto the stage at a campaign rally I'd be very concerned about it and rightly speculate that there's something wrong with their leg. In this case I'm seeing symptoms and signs that are concerning and speculating that there might be something afoot. I'm just being honest here, I'm not playing a game where I ignore what's right in front of me to make everyone feel better.

My narrative? You tried to say you wouldn't say he had dementia and went on for a couple paragraphs about how he looks like he has dementia. It's gross.
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
Trump actively campaigns for Bernie and has never even once attacked him. If we're talking about candidates who haven't been vetted, "rape essay" would likely be among the mildest shit thrown Bernie's way in the GE by Trump. Literally every evidence we have points to the GOP being incredibly confident about the oppo they have on him.

Trump has gone on record as saying he would've lost to Bernie in '16. You think the GOP would have oppo that the fucking democratic establishment, who has done everything in their power to stop him from winning the nomination, wouldn't have? Or even have alluded to it? Trump could go after Bernie's wife for that business thing - but Trump going after Bernie over shady bankruptcies would hurt Trump just as much as it'd hurt Bernie, hence why Trump hasn't gone down that road.

If there is some mystical oppo out there on Bernie, after over 4 years of being in the public spotlight on a national stage with immense vested financial forces doing everything they could to stop him, you'd have heard about it.
 

Doukou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,546
Trump actively campaigns for Bernie and has never even once attacked him. If we're talking about candidates who haven't been vetted, "rape essay" would likely be among the mildest shit thrown Bernie's way in the GE by Trump. Literally every evidence we have points to the GOP being incredibly confident about the oppo they have on him.
I don't think Biden will struggle that much but I do think it's funny you're taking strategy from the opposition on how to beat them.
 

TyrantII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,371
Boston
Significantly better

Guys guys guys, the only candidate to turn out more voters than 2016 is unpopular!

🙃

Reality: Last night was a reckoning on Bernie's claim that there was a transformative movement backing him that would draw new voters and the youth to win elections. Less people showed up than 2016 for him, and Michigan will probably be the cap on 2020.

You don't get to call the guy that got more people out to vote unpopular when you didn't meet your 2016 metrics. You take some time and figure out what just happened.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,917
I still believe in Bernie. We just need to keep fighting and we will keep getting stronger.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
It just amazes me that Democrats are on the verge of nominating yet another Presidential candidate who voted in favor of the Iraq War. One of the big reasons Obama was so popular was his opposition to it. Trump is going to bring up that vote over and over just like he did with Hillary.

Honestly that is such a distant issue right now.

Biden has a fuck ton of issues, I agree. But compared to Trump I dont have any reservations.

Also Obama was kind of hawkish in reality.
 

Deleted member 2109

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,927
Rachel Maddow: You're not doing well with black voters.

Bernie: Uh lets talk about my hispanic and asian support instead.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
It just amazes me that Democrats are on the verge of nominating yet another Presidential candidate who voted in favor of the Iraq War. One of the big reasons Obama was so popular was his opposition to it. Trump is going to bring up that vote over and over just like he did with Hillary.

Luckily indiscriminately bombing brown people and overthrowing foreign governments for shits and giggles is something that unites both republicans and democrats.
 

infamous5445

Member
Dec 3, 2019
951
The author is worried that the Ukraine affair could affect Biden's popularity. That may or may not happen, but it's obvious that Trump would attack any candidate anyway.
Counterpoint: You would think the impeachment saga over the last 5-6 months would dissuade Democrats/Independents from voting for Biden since there's so much ammo for Republicans to use, but yesterday proved that narrative wrong.
 
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