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ostrichKing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,486
It's shocking to me that people really showed up in large numbers to vote for a guy who can barely string a coherent sentence together. How can you hear Biden speak and go "that's my guy"?
Not defining himself by a word that, as stupid as it may be, vast numbers of Americans have declared they will never vote for (despite liking the policies) probably has something to do with it...and I think many felt he's more electable in a general...and the hatred and desire to kick trump out is strong
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,153
Talk about someone who would get slaughtered in a general election. You think republicans hated Hillary? Holy shit...that is noothing compared to the deep hatred the right has for AOC...

Its too early to tell, but if she can actually energize the youth vote in contrast to what Bernie utterly failed to do tonight, she might have a shot.
 

Big Baybee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,841
I will say that I don't think Biden runs for re-election in 2024 if he does beat Trump. I would be lying if I said I wasn't nervous about Biden, but the numbers he pulled in today are helping me feel better. And the warren snake shit really pisses me off. Stop that childish bs.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,444
Okay, I'm sincerely going to try to help you here. I've been pretty inflammatory in this thread, because, frankly, I'm pissed. But this is honest to god advice:

Forget that I am a member of a progressive forum and imagine I'm some voting schlub in the midwest or in Florida or wherever the hell else.

Imagine I, as this hypothetical person, voted for Trump in 2016 because I really did think that the country would be better if a businessman outsider came in and changed up a political order that had left my community in poverty. Imagine I saw the constant hair pulling and shirt wringing from the Democrats, saw Pelosi's poorly staged political theater, saw the clumsy and hasty impeachment trials, and thought to myself, "Okay, maybe they really don't like this guy. Maybe they're afraid of Trump, and maybe he's getting things done after all!" (To be clear, I think this is a profoundly stupid position, but one I hear echoed by people who aren't hardcore MAGA hat wearing folks, but just working people who are low information, well intentioned, and convinced [for good reason] that traditional politicians like Joe Biden don't actually give a shit about them).

So say I'm this person, and say that I'm not exactly foaming at the mouth with hatred for Trump. Say I'm in a take it or leave it position with the guy. Like, the economy seems to be doing better, but I think he spends too much time tweeting or whatever. But if a better choice came along, I'd consider it.

Now

Without just yelling about Trump and how big of a threat he is, talk to me like a human being and convince me that Biden is a better choice for me personally. Tell me why, if my life isn't measurably better or worse under Trump, I should be bothered to vote for a man closely tied to an administration that didn't necessarily help me either but who has said things like he wants to take my grandmother's social security away or who I've seen on TV being weird with little girls.

My advice, at the end of all of that hypothetical, is that you need to come up with something better than "Getting rid of Trump," because like it or not, there are a lot of people in this country who don't hate Trump as much as you do, for whatever reason, and they do vote. And if you put a nothing candidate like Biden on stage with Trump and the best he can offer is, "I'm not him," then you're screwed. That's all there is to it.

Edit: Just to be completely clear here: If you honestly think that a right-leaning moderate like Joe is the best bet to oust Trump, then this is what being a center of the aisle person looks like. You can't say that the centrist is the best bet and then refuse to reach out to people who voted for Trump. So you need to figure out how to do that successfully or you're going to see a repeat of '16. Remember Hillary's 'basket of deplorables' goof? Imagine framing Trump voters as bad people and still getting them to vote for Biden.

Best of luck to y'all with this.

Biden isn't taking your grandmother's social security away.
 

ostrichKing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,486
Its too early to tell, but if she can actually energize the youth vote in contrast to what Bernie utterly failed to do tonight, she might have a shot.
LMAO...I like AOC but there is no way she is electable...like, at all..and haven't we learned the youth may be energized...but they sure haven't come out to vote...
I know fairly progressive people who irrationally despise her (and not all men).
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,260
Who do you think is the best bet? Maybe stacey abrams

I like Kamala Harris but right now it's too far out. The nomination is still a toss up. Biden had a strong night but he didn't lock up or even become betting odds in the nom yet

If Biden wins the nom selfishly I'd prefer a woman of color and Kamala Harris might work politically for Biden whilr also being a good attack dog.

If Sanders wins though then I had no idea who his running mate would be. Conventional wisdom would say he moved to the center for a VP but I don't know if his base would tolerate that. He could likely appoint someone like how Trump appointed Mike Pence, a true believe ideologue who will not make waves and wasn't in the primary so his base wasn't alienated from him. But just like how in 2016 I barely knew who Mike Pence was and wouldn't have thought he'd be the VP nod for Trump, I've no idea who Sanders would lean into.
 

ABK281

Member
Apr 5, 2018
3,036
If Biden wins Trump wins. I'll bet fucking everything under the sun that he can't beat Trump.
 

Deleted member 9197

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
660
Biden isn't taking your grandmother's social security away.

I'm speaking to the general rhetoric that has been out against him and will continue to come at him. But you're halfway there by at least countering a claim! Good job! Now name positive qualities about Biden that make him worth voting for that don't include any combination of the words "he isn't Donald Trump".
 

Papaya

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,475
California
Surprised so many people have resigned themselves to Biden. Race isnt over. Biden got hit over the head on his record with Social Security and got knocked out in NH and Iowa. Very weak candidate with no real support. Dems only vote biden cause they think he's the most electable.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,845
This is exactly why Bernie should Have never turned to Biden and referred to him as "my friend" in the debates. Fucking play hardball or you'll lose.

I think they're genuinely friends. He just doesn't do that. That's Bernie.

He stopped boos last night during a rally. 'Joe's a good friend. He just happens to be wrong.'
 

Deleted member 4353

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,559
Why are all of his surrogates and his staff so terrible?

Is it in the job description that they are required to spread bullshit

They are all terrible. Brie whatever, David Sirota, the Young Turks, this douche Shaun King. Urrgh.

Good on Maddow for shutting that garbage down. Surprising it took her seven hours, but I'm not surprised Shaun King is trying to muddy the waters and turn Bernie voters even more harshly against Biden.

What is with Bernie's surrogates and propagating this screwjob narrative? Do they not realize they're taking pages from Trump's playbook and basically promoting toxic ideas that make things worse for everyone?

It looks like that's what they're gonna do now. They spend so much complaining and gaslighting the dems. I said this before, They seem to hate the dems more than republicans.
 

Serene

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
52,594
The one thing AOC has on her side is her youth. If anyone (and I mean anyone) is going to be the white whale that actually gets younger people to vote it's going to be a younger candidate who is also progressive and actually has genuine charisma. It's an untested combo at this particular juncture.
 

Doukou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,538
Kinda sad that in 2020 the general election will be between two people who put children in cages.
 

TwoDelay

Member
Apr 6, 2018
1,326
I hope Bernie stays in until at least the next debate. Hopefully he can pull biden left on some issues
 

WhySoDevious

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,478
Good on Maddow for shutting that garbage down. Surprising it took her seven hours, but I'm not surprised Shaun King is trying to muddy the waters and turn Bernie voters even more harshly against Biden.

What is with Bernie's surrogates and propagating this screwjob narrative? Do they not realize they're taking pages from Trump's playbook and basically promoting toxic ideas that make things worse for everyone?
Like I've always said, Bernie running again this election means that Russia can just run the same playbook they did against Hillary.

Through social media, they'll get the "Bernie Bros" all riled up so that they don't show up to vote in November because they feel the nomination was once again stolen from him.

Bernie should have never run again.
 

Codeblue

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,841
Should be interesting to see if Biden can keep this thing together after this push. The less he speaks, the better he does. I suppose he could keep trotting out endorsements instead.

Hopefully if Biden is the nom, he doesn't reach the delegate threshold and Warren/Bernie can drag the party platform to the left.
 

Jimrpg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
I know you say the first line in jest but that's literally how Biden won Minnesota. Past that, though, no doubt a huge problem for Bernie's message is that it really holds out hope that young people vote, which is always the issue since they usually don't come out in numbers. Combination of voter suppression in younger / minority / poorer communities, in-fighting between Warren and Bernie and America's fear of the word "Socialist" really did hinder his campaign. Perfect storm of shitty things.

Hopefully no matter who wins the nom, they beat Trump and a more progressive movement is created even if Bernie loses.


Very true and something that sadly doesn't seem to be changing any time soon.

I didn't say it in jest. :D I'm pretty surprised by both, Bernie was tied in polls in Minnesota with Amy. Biden was further back. Bernie was leading in polls in MA, and Biden still won in a progressive state.

I don't really trust Biden - I know this board and GAF were very Obama centric and numerous Obama fans, but imo Biden is Clinton/Obama 2.0 and works for the man, not for the public.
 

AdrianG4

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
565
It is pretty sad that Biden getting in so many aggressive scuffles with potential voters and challenging them to push up contests and telling them theyre going to die before the election is not disqualifying of a candidate. But we live in a post Trump era I guess
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,163
Like I've always said, Bernie running again this election means that Russia can just run the same playbook they did against Hillary.

Through social media, they'll get the "Bernie Bros" all riled up so that they don't show up to vote in November because they feel the nomination was once again stolen from him.

Bernie should have never run again.

You're not wrong. The exact same fucking narratives as last time are being repeated ALREADY and Bernie fans are falling for it hook, line and sinker.
 

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
Biden's speech tonight was already reaching out to Republicans. He's delusional. He should watch the Alt Right Playbook.
How can people forget how bad he can be, Bernie is older than Biden and he still doesn't do the same shit that he does,

trump will catch him slipping and it's over, the media ignores it right now but people pay attention to it
 
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