So they're obliged to have their product reflect the demographics / social issues of the markets in which the product is sold?
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Cyberpunk 2077 looks amazing, but I’m conflicted about supporting CD Projekt Red with the doubt they’ve cast around their social stances.
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So they're obliged to have their product reflect the demographics / social issues of the markets in which the product is sold?
I struggle not condemning people who dont care about the same issues i do, it is something i have to work on.
There are people who care about different things, the important thing is that they are able to care. I have to remember that.
I have to remember that 1% of general population is without conscience ('psychopathic') and 5%+ (depending on factors like exposure to war, societal acceptance of beating children, etc) have damaged ability to empathise. You will find these people everywhere, and their actions and statements stand out. These are the people who cause real damage in the world. But don't use them as representatives of everyone else.
So yes, there are psychopath gamers, and gamers who have no empathy for fellow humans, but that isn't the majority even if it seems like it. So lumping 'gamers' into a garbage dumpster of defective humans because some groups dont care about what you do is a really bad way to view the world.
But by all means lump those without consciences together.
There are people who care about different things, the important thing is that they are able to care. I have to remember that.
I have to remember that 1% of general population is without conscience ('psychopathic') and 5%+ (depending on factors like exposure to war, societal acceptance of beating children, etc) have damaged ability to empathise. You will find these people everywhere, and their actions and statements stand out. These are the people who cause real damage in the world. But don't use them as representatives of everyone else.
So yes, there are psychopath gamers, and gamers who have no empathy for fellow humans, but that isn't the majority even if it seems like it. So lumping 'gamers' into a garbage dumpster of defective humans because some groups dont care about what you do is a really bad way to view the world.
But by all means lump those without consciences together.
Same, OP. The cognitive dissonance sucks. But luckily Bloodlines 2 and Baldur's Gate 3 have been announced, so it's easier to ignore.
Seriously.
Buy something because you want to; not because of what you perceive some conglomeration believes.
Even the 'woke' companies that you support are only being 'woke' because you'll fucking support them. And you all fall for it!
Assholes work at every company and corporation across the globe. If you were to boycott assholes you'd die of starvation.
Obligated? No.
Should they? Absolutely.
Otherwise you have to lean on the, "there were no black people in medival england" defense, which, when you're making a fictional product, does not, and will never, matter.
The shear amount of "I don't really care about social issues as long as I get to play the video game" is disappointing, but not unexpected.
So... use the character creator? Did you all start up Mass Effect and just go with white bald Shepherd?
I didn't know shitty cover art stopped you using the skin tone slider.
Uh yes. What are you even trying to say? That it's okay for them not to include minorities just because they're a polish developer? meanwhile they include dragons and other fantasy creatures.
So, about 2 people fucked up in the team, so the way you chose to show your opposition to what they said/did, is not to buy their game so the hundreds of people who worked their ass off on the game, and did nothing wrong, get punished too? ok
So you buy every game that comes out right? Otherwise you're punishing all those game devs.
Maybe it was per year, but they were number 1. Poland is definitely a hard (over) working society.
Glad you care more about a gaming company than minorities being shit on publically.
How is not buying a game a punishment lmao, can't believe I've been punishing every single developer ever for every game I didnt buy.
As a white Polock (redundant), I found it completely satisfying. The whole 'it's fantasy, so who cares' thing really doesn't hold much water with me. Like, hey, fuck, why not put Batman in the game, then? It's fantasy.
They're Polish people doing stories about a fantasy world with a particular aesthetic. It doesn't preclude people of color and there's no good reason why people of color SHOULDN'T be in the game, but I completely understand the idea of people creating what they know. CDPR knows Europe and weird Polish fairytales, and there just aren't that many POC there usually.
Those tweets are obviously indefensible, but I don't know enough about the situation to think that it's evidence of ongoing anti-trans bigotry at CDPR as a whole.
Ugh, who cares. To me, you're off the reservation at this point. That they don't actively single out and praise their LGBT employees means nothing to me. There'd be absolutely nothing wrong with it if they had, but that's not a concerning omission, in my mind.
Hey, man, it's fantasy. What's your deal? For real, stuff like this is where you lose me.
I guess this is the part of the thread where I suggest that the McElroy brothers should be responsible for designing the characters on the box art for every game with a character maker?
Just gonna post what I said last page:
Why is it a punishment? If this was instead about bad/exploitative businesses practices or genuine dishonesty like EAs Battlefront or Aliens Colonial Marines, you wouldn't call it punishment but voting with your dollar/sending a message about what you expect from the people you give your hard earned money to. You wouldn't purchase those games just because not everyone behind the games were in charge of making those detrimental decisions & you don't literally buy every game that comes out to "support" the earnest people behind the scenes, so why should it be different in this case.
I honestly don't see why people are hyped about this game. It's just another pile of flashy graphics with seemingly no substance. Of course I could be wrong but I got tired of these massive AAA games years ago, they're all very similar and even when one is good enough or mildly different enough it still kinda feels like a drag. That plus their ignorant social media presence is enough for me to just not care.
If people enjoy it good for them, we can't nit pick each other's choice of game, I just don't wanna waste 80 hours running around shooting crap for no reason. I always support anyone who wants to draw any kind of line for a good reason. Doesn't make others wrong, but we need more moral stances in the world today that lies and presents itself as totally amoral.
If people enjoy it good for them, we can't nit pick each other's choice of game, I just don't wanna waste 80 hours running around shooting crap for no reason. I always support anyone who wants to draw any kind of line for a good reason. Doesn't make others wrong, but we need more moral stances in the world today that lies and presents itself as totally amoral.
No I buy games that I like and that seem good to me. We're not talking here to not buy a thing we don't like but boycotting something we do like. Do you really think that the right person will get the right message if you do not buy this game? "Ah yeah we sold 2% less than we thought, shame, let's stop being bad to minorities in our next games", nah, they'll not care. They'll even maybe fire the people who are not that important in the team, to "save money". The heads of CDPR won't be damaged at all by this boycott.
I'd say if you wanna defend this cause, give to associations that care about this kind of minorities, but boycotting this game seem useless to me. If someone get "hurt" by this boycott it won't be CDPR heads. :/
Speaking of "punishing" the hundreds of people who worked on the game if you boycott it, I have a genuine question about game development.
If someone, say, a level designer worked on a game for 2 years, then the game gets released and nobody buys it, do they not get paid at all?
I was under the impression that the people working on the game are paid for their services while working on it, not dependant on how much money the game makes.
So who is really being punished here, the poor innocent workers or the people in charge profiting off the sales?
If someone, say, a level designer worked on a game for 2 years, then the game gets released and nobody buys it, do they not get paid at all?
I was under the impression that the people working on the game are paid for their services while working on it, not dependant on how much money the game makes.
So who is really being punished here, the poor innocent workers or the people in charge profiting off the sales?
There are a lot of wonderfully creative and just overall amazing people working there who haven't exhibited hateful views. I'm going to reward their efforts by supporting their hard work on PS4 and then again when the inevitable PS5 version releases.
I made my mind up a long time ago on this.
I haven't seen the previous demonstration, maybe that's more convincing, but this cutscene just made the game seem like naff Guy Ritchie, so I can't see what people are excited about. And Bloodlines 2 will be out about the same time, so I don't know if missing out on this game will feel like I'm missing out on anything really. There will always be other games to play. This one game ain't all that and a bag of chips.
I get the impression that people attribute significant value and effort to the non-action of not buying a game. Like it's this big decision. At the same time people opt to not buy games for the pettiest of reasons. But for some reason when it's about not buying this game for this specific reason, oh no we can't punish people at the company who had nothing to do with this etc.
You are not contractually obligated to buy all of the things. If a game's 30fps instead of 60 or whatever, that's not the fault of everyone who worked on the game etc. you heartless punisher of innocent developers. That argument is just think is a copout.
Not buying a game requires basically no conviction, effort or sacrifice. In fact, you're rewarded for it in the form of saving money.
But whatever. Do what you want. Keanu is breathtaking.
I haven't seen the previous demonstration, maybe that's more convincing, but this cutscene just made the game seem like naff Guy Ritchie, so I can't see what people are excited about. And Bloodlines 2 will be out about the same time, so I don't know if missing out on this game will feel like I'm missing out on anything really. There will always be other games to play. This one game ain't all that and a bag of chips.
I get the impression that people attribute significant value and effort to the non-action of not buying a game. Like it's this big decision. At the same time people opt to not buy games for the pettiest of reasons. But for some reason when it's about not buying this game for this specific reason, oh no we can't punish people at the company who had nothing to do with this etc.
You are not contractually obligated to buy all of the things. If a game's 30fps instead of 60 or whatever, that's not the fault of everyone who worked on the game etc. you heartless punisher of innocent developers. That argument is just think is a copout.
Not buying a game requires basically no conviction, effort or sacrifice. In fact, you're rewarded for it in the form of saving money.
But whatever. Do what you want. Keanu is breathtaking.
Of course they get paid, and then many of them will get bonuses if the game is successful as well as increasing their odds of further employment to work on expansions/sequels.
1: holding devs at gunpoint because i didn't buy their game doesn't work on me because I know it's a bullshit tactic so nice try.
2: using your logic by not buying every game you are making people lose their jobs. Explain why it's ok that you don't have to buy games but I have to.
This is actually what you're going with? Something this stupid and lacking in empathy?
A) I can both talk about & critique a company's bigotry and support LGBTQ+ charities.
B) The reason we're talking in the first place is to let CDPR know why some of us won't be buying the game. People aren't just silently boycotting.
C) Boycotting isn't solely focused on harming the pockets of the people behind a product. People actually have principles they like to stick to and people they like to stand in solidarity with and are happy to skip a product for that purpose. I didn't skip Anthem because I was certain the heads of EA and BioWare would come crying to me begging for forgiveness. I didn't buy it because I personally just don't like companies fucking with me by selling issue-riddled products.
I'm imagining it'll be super stressful to reach that early 2020 deadline for everyone on board there at CDPR. I wasn't expecting that release... I'm fearing that there'll be a report on further bad working conditions while we cheer them on.
I'm certain those people will be worked to the bone. It's their biggest issue because we know it's a company wide problem.
Listening to Billie Jean and purchasing it are two separate things. I already have Ignition Remix. I already have Chinatown. But I'm not going to support new endeavors by those creators. Cyberpunk isn't out yet and unless the people behind the game's public face make a radical change, many people aren't comfortable giving them money/supporting them. This isn't about how easy or not easy it is to spend $60 so your post is nothing but flippantly lampooning people's concerns on a serious subject.
"You can't expect Polish company to be in touch with Western sensitivities" vs. "This is a common insult in the West".
Hmmmmmm.
I saw like four speaking black characters so I'm already impressed lol
This and keep them out of games.
It only causes division when introduced.
I'm with u on everything until the whole Gay capitalism part, companies are marketing they don't care about LGBTQ or their fellow humans. If they did, they'd do something like this for Black History Month as it's been almost a decade now of Black targeted murderings and no sign of it stopping.
From my perspective, this just looks like casual ignorance on their part and not the purposeful ignorance of taking a stance on something that is basically indefensible. The former is much easier to move past.
Nothing is absent of politics and Cyberpunk in particular as a genre is steeped in politics and social commentary so it should be addressed.
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User banned (3 days): Inflammatory whataboutism.
I would like to see the Venn diagram between people who may not buy the game due to CDPR's attitudes/working conditions and those will consume pornography (an incredibly abusive industry) later this evening.
Selective outrage is a stable of internet slacktivism.
Selective outrage is a stable of internet slacktivism.
Saying this when discussing a Cyberpunk game. Extremely tone deaf.
Not really. It goes to the heart of the matter.
Should I take moral stances on entertainment? If so, it's clearly based on principle. But if I am selective in my outrage, and boycotting is quite easy in either arena, then there is no principle.
It is quite possible to take stand on one issue and not take stand on another issue, and (aside from the fact that it's quite human to do so because we're not all flawless, perfectly consistent robots) it's far better than not take a stand on anything because "hey I'm ignoring this other thing".
If your idea of intelligent discourse is this post, I'm not really sure you're in a position to judge. Besides which you decided to throw a statement in the face of someone that amounts to "see i don't care about what you sjws think i listen to michael jackson" forgetting the fact he's an alleged child molester. Gross.
Did you read the OP?
Being hypocritical doesn't mean it's wrong for someone not to buy something because they don't agree with actions done by the company producing. So even if one concedes your point, it doesn't really matter.
The person who handles their Twitter made a "did you just assume my gender" joke and the only apology for it was basically a non apology of "sorry if we offended you".
The other issue has to do with general representation in their games. For Witcher they did essentially an entirely white title. And for cyberpunk they stuck with a binary gender instead of giving more options for character customization.
It's completely valid for people to not want to support them. I do not fault them.
My suggestion to you is go read the first post before asking this as folks tend to hammer down on new account members or members with little post count thinking it's a troll account.
My point is that it's not a stand at all.
It's like voting for candidates who support equal rights for LGBT in the workplace, and then not hiring them due to LGBT status.
The issue here isn't "Is cocksucker okay to say?" but whether we should avoid entertainment built by bad people or bad conditions.
Answering "No" over here and "Yes" over there means it's not a stand at all.
You do know not promoting lgbtq+ and poc in videogames is also a political statement? That's the funny thing about politics, it's all around you! It's not just on C-SPAN. So not wanting to engage with politics is like saying you don't want to engage with society.
You will find the best films and TV shows secretly have politics stuffed into them...and you may never have known it!
I stand with the others who are calling out CDPR's lack of clear statement on supporting minorities, which is super easy to do and you can even lie if you wanted (apparently all the other companies supporting pride are lying just to get our money, so it can't be hard). I'm not going to support their game and if anyone says the community can't make a difference then they should look to backlashes like Battlefront 2 as evidence that you can if you send a clear message.
You should give Witcher 3 a try if you haven't, it's one of the first games that actually immersed me in the world and the main character who is literally strip of his emotions has some of the best dialogue and character interactions in gaming.
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