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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Marisha and Taliesin play through every dialogue tree with a random mage.

"Nope, not that one... Hmm, would you like to know all our secrets, sir?"

Are they just trying to forge another Allura-like alliance?
 

Nazo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,847
Man, one thing I've realized during this mage conversation that I just really don't like about the Nein is just how they are utterly incapable of telling the truth. It's like everyone is a pathological liar.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,336
The happy fun ball was way more fun from an adventuring pov than the dodecahedron. Disappointing that it's gone.
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
Except there's a big power imbalance, as the mage is showing now. Taking the happy fun ball for himself, which is way more valuable than a simple spell or two.

I think getting the wizard time-bending labyrinth out of their hands is probably going to work out for them in the long run. Having Caleb, who has shown an interest in time-manipulation, run around in a pre-calamity wizards office without proper guidance could be very dangerous. Perhaps he'll be able to hold his hand through this guys research.

Or maybe he'll run off with it and they've helped unleash a great, powerful wizard on the world. Who knows where this guys allegiances lay, that's half the fun though!
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
Taliesin's line to Fjord was really great, I think it was "it takes a special kind of nice to get so close to temptation and take a different path. I have faith in you". Cads in general is just a great character and Taliesin's roleplaying is perfect.

That Caleb - Beau moment was brilliant.
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
Matt has taken whatever expectations I had for Nott and Caleb's back stories and just thrown them out the window. This is some mind-bending stuff they've stumbled upon.
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
Oh my god, this is... this is my first live episode after getting through both the campaigns in the past 3 and a half months and this is utter bullshit, I've had the comfort of always having another episode to watch for so long that waiting for a week after THIS is INSAAAAAAAANE, the avenues this story has taken are incredible!
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,268
Toronto
This was an absolute bombshell episode of Critical Role. That was a huge infodump that we got. It'll take awhile to process it just to understand what exactly just happened. Amazing
 

Wunder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,829
Oh boy! I hope Nott's story has several twists and turns still in it. I also can't wait for that VM one-shot to be released in February. Pleaseeeeeeee
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,684
Back in the mage tower I thought this episode was headed to end an hour early. It turned out they actually ran out of time in the middle of plot heavy events.

They gave away the sphere with the maze inside too early. That seems like it would have been a decent place to experiment with their new artifact without being detected by the outside world.
 
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eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,336
A lot of that stuff in the town went over my head. What does Caleb's "people" have to do with the dodecahedron or the Jorhassians? Why is a tiny, backwater town the center of dangerous arcane experimentation? And is that literally Nott's son? Or sort of a stepmother situation?
 

Smiley90

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,832
Oh my god, this is... this is my first live episode after getting through both the campaigns in the past 3 and a half months and this is utter bullshit, I've had the comfort of always having another episode to watch for so long that waiting for a week after THIS is INSAAAAAAAANE, the avenues this story has taken are incredible!

3.5 months is fast man, it took me like half a year to catch up!

... i definitely spent many nights binge-watching though.
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
3.5 months is fast man, it took me like half a year to catch up!

... i definitely spent many nights binge-watching though.

My current job allows me to just sit and watch YouTube for 8 hours a day. This is all I've been watching since October. I have watched a lot of Critical Role.

They gave away the sphere with the maze inside too early. That seems like it would have been a decent place to experiment with their new artifact without being detected by the outside world.

The serious issue with the ball was the whole time dilation. They were not in it for an incredibly long amount of time while a large number of days went by in the Material Plane. They could have really thrown some wrenches into everything if they kept messing with it.

On the other hand, giving a powerful mage access to a pre-divergence wizards plane and possibly all his research is incredibly dangerous as well, especially since his motivations and intentions are not well known. It could go either way with him.

A lot of that stuff in the town went over my head. What does Caleb's "people" have to do with the dodecahedron or the Jorhassians? Why is a tiny, backwater town the center of dangerous arcane experimentation? And is that literally Nott's son? Or sort of a stepmother situation?

Trent was specifically mentioned on one of the burned notes in the basement, meaning he's the one who has been manipulating this new school of magic. There are a ton of interesting theories on reddit being tossed out right now, this one, for example, is pretty mind-bending. I wouldn't buy too deeply into anything, though, Matt has definitely shown the ability to toss expectations on their head.
 
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Sensei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,648
A lot of that stuff in the town went over my head. What does Caleb's "people" have to do with the dodecahedron or the Jorhassians? Why is a tiny, backwater town the center of dangerous arcane experimentation? And is that literally Nott's son? Or sort of a stepmother situation?
A tiny backwater town is the best place to experiment like that because nobody's going to give a fuck or even notice if those people are hurt.

Caleb's "people" are the Cerberus Assembly. The Soltryce Academy, where Caleb was trained, feeds gifted mages into the Cerberus Assembly.
The Cerberus Assembly is studying the dodecahedrons, which have been stolen from the Kryn Dynasty in Xhorhas, and are trying to siphon dunamantic energy from them. There was dunamantic energy that they managed to harness in one of the vials that they found with the tripod. The vial had a substance in it that was in two different states - gaseous and liquid.

The Cerberus Assembly was using the alchemist Yeza to study the "dunamis," which is the dunamantic energy that was in that vial that they harnessed from a dodecahedron. The Cerberus Assembly wants to use the dunamis on people to make them into super soldiers, and they planned to have Yeza produce it [against his will].

Trent, Caleb's teacher, has students that are proficient in dunimancy (probably Eodwulf and Astrid), and the Cerberus Assembly wants to use that knowledge to gain more power.

Here's where Matt got the word from: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiality_and_actuality#Potentiality

Dunamis is an ordinary Greek word for possibility or capability. Depending on context, it could be translated "potency", "potential", "capacity", "ability", "power", "capability", "strength", "possibility", "force" and is the root of modern English words "dynamic", "dynamite", and "dynamo".

And it's why the luck point that they get to change rolls/fate is called "The Mote of Possibility."
 

Smiley90

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,832
that last hour contained a whole shitton of info, damn

I need to digest all that for a while

Nott&Caleb getting intertwined even more, damn, that was intense

thanks Sensei, that made thinking about it a bit easier

best line of the episode: "Yes, it's a chair"


Sam & Liam RP'd that like fucking gods. We don't deserve them

man I am SO fucking curious about Nott's backstory. And the whole "alive again". I know there were theories a while back that she wasn't always a Goblin but how? What? I need to know. Did old Edith call her "Veth"?
 
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Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,952
man I am SO fucking curious about Nott's backstory. And the whole "alive again". I know there were theories a while back that she wasn't always a Goblin but how? What? I need to know. Did old Edith call her "Veth"?

I heard "Beth".

And the Reincarnate spell is a good option on the how :

You touch a dead humanoid or a piece of a dead humanoid. Provided that the creature has been dead no longer than 10 days, the spell forms a new adult body for it and then calls the soul to enter that body. If the target's soul isn't free or willing to do so, the spell fails.

The magic fashions a new body for the creature to inhabit, which likely causes the creature's race to change. The GM rolls a d100 and consults the following table to determine what form the creature takes when restored to life, or the GM chooses a form.

This spell is not supposed to be able to change someone into a Goblin but Matt is a fervent adept of homebrewing stuff so it's a likely explanation.
 

Yoss

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,680
Canada
That was a great episode and it also seems like Matt found a solution to reign the group in a bit. Now they have a really powerful patron who can/will send them on interesting tasks without being specifically good or bad. Strong enough to keep them in check but offers significant rewards, can offer various quests and tasks without forcing them down a specific path. I'm hoping this leads to a bit more direction and purpose, I've been struggling to get as invested in this season as I was the last.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Damn that got good in the second half. Whew.

My theory is that Nott's goblin clan raided Felderwyn(sp?) and killed some halflings and took the alchemist (possibly his son too) prisoner. That's when she befriended him, he taught her a little about alchemy which she still practices today, and learned about his wife (who the goblins had already killed). She fell in love with him and set him free, then while she was on the run from the goblins and others she later got in trouble with (like when she first met Caleb) she was also sending money and toys and buttons to take care of Yizza(sp?) and his son from afar.

Nott has since learned how to use Disguise Self by hanging out with Caleb, and she probably saw what Yizza's dead wife looked like if she was also captured and then killed in the goblin raiding and torture (even in a picture he had on him or something). So she made herself look like his dead wife in order to go check on his son. That's why the son and the old woman watching him both thought she was dead. She is dead. Nott's long term goal is that she wants Caleb to polymorph her into an actual halfling that looks like Yizza's dead wife so that she can take on that role as mother and wife for real. She feels general disgust for being a goblin and she feels terribly guilty for being part of a group that took away Yizza's wife and his son's mother, so she's trying to address both of those problems at once via Caleb.

It should be interesting to see what Yizza thinks about all this. How much of Nott's affection for him does he actually return? Was he actually her friend, did he care for her, or was he just trying to survive for his son's sake? More juicy drama on the way.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,336
I prefer the reincarnation theory simply because the idea of pretending to be the kid's dead mother would put Nott in a really dark and creepy light, and I like Nott too much right now to entertain that.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Sam seems to like giving himself roleplaying challenges though. Reincarnation or curses that turned Nott into a goblin just feels too neat and tidy to me. It changes her goals from being a proactive attempt to change herself into a reactive attempt undo something that was done to her. It weakens her whole "this isn't me" thing considerably in my eyes because it takes some very interesting self loathing, hating where you come from, and body dysmorphia stuff into a very literal "this isn't me, I was shapeshifted into a goblin via magic". Making the audience understand or sympathize with actions that sound creepy or dark out of context sounds like a challenge Sam would set up for himself. Of course, whatever is happening, the quality all comes down to execution more than the broad concept.

We'll see what happens. Whatever comes out in the conversation at the beginning of the next episode will give us some more context to work from.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,336
I don't think there's any context, no matter how guilty she feels, where pretending to be the mother of a child, psychologically fucking with him in a huge way, when she never even had a relationship with the father, and also sending presents to the father in a super stalkerish way, there's no context where that's acceptable.

So nah, I'll take neat and tidy reincarnation theories for now.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
I'd like to see them actually tackle the morally complex ideas that they talk about on Talks Machina from time to time. And those things should be at least a bit uncomfortable because they aren't easy, well trod territory in media like the "we're outsiders, we're a found family, and I love you all" drum that has been a constant between both campaigns. I don't like when "morally complex" is used as a cover for them just playing the game like a standard group of murder hobos but wanting to elevate and justify the behavior after the fact, but if they actually want to go for something weird, I'd like to see it.

Nott is obviously a good person as we've seen from her behavior, but there's also some situations wherein the disconnect from her being socialized by goblins comes to the surface. Her having a skewed sense of morality would make sense to me. And that brings to mind questions like why she behaves like a goblin. Why would she eat like a rabid animal like she does? Why would she try to eat Frumpkin and want to eat raw rats if she was just a transformed halfling? She really went whole hog on method acting? Reincarnate doesn't turn you into a baby of another race, it turns you into an adult, so the timeline of her growing up, living amongst the goblins, being a torturer's apprentice, mothering a child, freeing Yezza, etc, etc but also being a halfling doesn't really square with her ingrained goblin-y behavior and the fact that her 5 year old son recognizes her appearance. How long was she living among them? When did these things happen? I guess she could have just been lying about everything.

She also doesn't have to literally be polymorphed into the dead mother to become a replacement for her. She could just want to be a halfling. Then we're diving into the dark, fucked up territory of a her becoming a stepparent *eerie music plays*
 
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Sonicbug

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,433
The Void, MA
I'm sitting here trying to piece together Nott's backstory and history with the kid and his father. What we know is that she's at least been gone for a year. Her familiarity with the town, it's shops, and it's people make me believe that she lived there with both of them for a time. I think she already did the whole disguise self as dead mother thing once. I think at some point she was spotted in goblin form and driven from town, and Yezza found out who she really was. Hence the telling the son the mother was killed by goblins, not telling the son where the gifts were coming from.

Either way, heartbreak all around.

Also, I'm dying at the irony of Cad and Beau telling the mage they think "this can't be coincidence, everything is probably related!" and then the events with Caleb, Nott, and the Beacon. AYE AYE AYE.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
I don't think Nott had the ability to use Disguise Self before the campaign started since she wouldn't have started learning spells until level 3, and it was implied she learned them from traveling with Caleb. That makes this whole thing even more complicated.

Also, I saw this moment mentioned on reddit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C-frHrNWjY&t=209m30s
Sam using "Veth" as a fake name (while disguised as a "little halfling girl") in order to get into the Cobalt Soul library. His eyes and facial expression after he says it are very interesting after last episode.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,336
Nott is obviously a good person as we've seen from her behavior, but there's also some situations wherein the disconnect from her being socialized by goblins comes to the surface.

Lots of very bad people in this world are kind to people close to them. That doesn't make them good people, it just makes them human (I use the term loosely here). If your theory is actually the truth, then Nott is...I wouldn't say bad, but is very selfish and damaging to others. Out of her own guilt or want for acceptance perhaps, but that wouldn't absolve her actions. I mean, can you imagine this child who thought his mother was dead, then is told she's alive, and eventually he will find out -- and he will, that's inevitable -- that a goblin has been pretending to be his dead mother? That would be deep, serious trauma inflicted on the child by Nott.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Lots of very bad people in this world are kind to people close to them. That doesn't make them good people, it just makes them human (I use the term loosely here). If your theory is actually the truth, then Nott is...I wouldn't say bad, but is very selfish and damaging to others. Out of her own guilt or want for acceptance perhaps, but that wouldn't absolve her actions. I mean, can you imagine this child who thought his mother was dead, then is told she's alive, and eventually he will find out -- and he will, that's inevitable -- that a goblin has been pretending to be his dead mother? That would be deep, serious trauma inflicted on the child by Nott.
Yeah it would be super messed up. But we also don't know all the details, so I'm just spitballing here.

That's a good point about even bad people helping those close to them. The M9 also just helped Fjord get one step closer to releasing an evil god for basically no reason other than helping a friend learn a cool party trick and/or having it as leverage to get a favor from him later. I'm having a hard time pinning down anybody's morality at the moment.
 

Wunder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,829
I don't buy the reincarnate theory as much as the others so far just because of the cost of the spell and apparent randomness that Nott was the one that was picked. You're talking about a 9th level or higher Druid putting down 1,000gp worth of materials down to reincarnate a single person. Given that most commoners seem to react incredibly gracious for a single silver or gold piece above their asking price, I'm not sure Yezza or anyone from Felderwin would be able to afford such a ritual. I feel like it'd be incredibly contrived if it was reincarnate and she was chased out of the village or something because she was a goblin.

However, Matt didn't ask Sam to roll any deception checks while that whole conversation was happening, which means he either let it go/forgot or Nott was telling the truth.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,952
I don't buy the reincarnate theory as much as the others so far just because of the cost of the spell and apparent randomness that Nott was the one that was picked. You're talking about a 9th level or higher Druid putting down 1,000gp worth of materials down to reincarnate a single person. Given that most commoners seem to react incredibly gracious for a single silver or gold piece above their asking price, I'm not sure Yezza or anyone from Felderwin would be able to afford such a ritual. I feel like it'd be incredibly contrived if it was reincarnate and she was chased out of the village or something because she was a goblin.

However, Matt didn't ask Sam to roll any deception checks while that whole conversation was happening, which means he either let it go/forgot or Nott was telling the truth.

Well, Yezza seems to be a very skilled alchemist with a connection to the empire. It wouldn't be that surprising to see him going out of his way to find the way to revive his wife. Maybe that's the reason he was working on the Beacons for the empire in the first place. He could have made a deal with the empire to work with them if they agreed to attempt a resurrection spell on Veth.
 

Luigi87

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,118
Really interested in seeing how more of Nott's story develops.

Matt is probably relieved they gave up the puzzle. He never intended for the M9 to gain ownership of it from Twiggy, so this helps alleviate needing to come up with any immediate ideas for chambers had they decided to attempt to use it again.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
I was waiting for when Matt would introduce his own homebrew school of magic. I was not disappointed. One of them playing a Dunamancer in C3 would be awesome.
We'll see how sick everyone gets after a while of empire wizards using luck to make others reroll their good dice rolls and casting slow on them and haste on themselves, lol. It seems like a school of magic that might work better as a plot element that the players can get a taste of rather than use at will. It seems like it has the potential to make battles very un-fun if Matt isn't careful with it. At the same time, getting trounced by a group of time-manipulating wizards is a good way to reinforce "you are not prepared" whenever he needs to pull that card on the party.

This school might be a thing specific to C2, the dodecahedron, and Caleb's story.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,336
Well, Yezza seems to be a very skilled alchemist with a connection to the empire. It wouldn't be that surprising to see him going out of his way to find the way to revive his wife. Maybe that's the reason he was working on the Beacons for the empire in the first place. He could have made a deal with the empire to work with them if they agreed to attempt a resurrection spell on Veth.

That's a good point. Yezza might have made the deal with the Empire, got Veth resurrected, and when she came back as a goblin he was horrified and wanted nothing to do with her. The whole other story about the goblin tribe capturing the father might be something Nott made up to hide her shame and grief for what happened.
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
Let's not forget that she killed a baby. To add to that: a baby that, unless Nott is really a Halfling in disguise, was a monster race just like her.
A monster race she *hates* like herself.
Man, Nott is shaping up to be a damn facinating character, at this point i have pretty much no doubt that her and caleb will be the highlight of this campaign.
 

Nazo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,847
That's a good point. Yezza might have made the deal with the Empire, got Veth resurrected, and when she came back as a goblin he was horrified and wanted nothing to do with her. The whole other story about the goblin tribe capturing the father might be something Nott made up to hide her shame and grief for what happened.
This is the same conclusion I came to myself. I also imagine that her stories about her goblin clan weren't true. There probably never was a clan at all or if there was she was probably only with them briefly before meeting Caleb. Also, Yezza telling people his wife was killed by Goblins is probably a kind of half truth. Because Veth was killed by a Goblin, and that Goblin was Nott.