Call me misogynous but all else equal I'd take someone more serious if they were wearing clothes over their underwear.
The professor could have talked with her privately about it instead of calling her out in front of class, or made a general comment at a later class that wasn't directed toward anyone, but it's notable the teacher is a woman. Ask people who work in a professional setting whether people judge you based on your appearance. The professor isn't in the wrong for advising students how people will perceive them during an important presentation, and it's easily imaginable the advice comes from personal experience.
Should people be judged on their appearance? No, they shouldn't, the student should be able to wear whatever she likes and she should be judged on the merits of her work. Unfortunately that's not how the world always works. If the professor's responsibility is to prepare her students for success she was just doing her job.
The professor makes the same remarks about men. Her overall point also isn't to shame anyoneThe professor is wrong to body shame any women for what they wear at the exclusion of not shaming some men for not having the ability to look beyond sex in a professional setting.
"I do not tell my students what to wear, nor do I define for them what constitutes appropriate dress," she said. "I ask them to reflect for themselves and make their own decisions."
Hey, you should read this post.Men are not required to dress professional to hide their gender- no one is worried about getting turned on watching a guy give a Power Point.
Women, not only have worry about dress professional (clean and well groomed), but whether a percentage of the males in the audience are thinking about how fuck-able the women is. Aka male gaze as the professor states.
The problem isn't what the women is wearing- she could be dressed in a burka, and some men would still get horny. Yet blame is forced on the women for distracting the men, instead demanding men have better impulse control over the sexual urges in a business setting.
The professor is wrong to body shame any women for what they wear at the exclusion of not shaming some men for not having the ability to look beyond sex in a professional setting.
The professor makes the same remarks about men. Her overall point also isn't to shame anyone
To say that how you dress doesn't affect how people perceive you would be to simply deny reality
LolTo say that the way women dress is viewed the same as the way men dress would be to simply deny reality
Yeah, but that's not what the professor is about. Have you never had a public speaking class? You dress up for presentations, she was just emphasizing the fact she probably shouldn't wear shorts to a thesis presentation.To say that the way women dress is viewed the same as the way men dress would be to simply deny reality
Yeah, but that's not what the professor is about. Have you never had a public speaking class? You dress up for presentations, she was just emphasizing the fact she probably shouldn't wear shorts to a thesis presentation.
By telling her she is inviting men to look at her body if she does.she was just emphasizing the fact she probably shouldn't wear shorts to a thesis presentation.
Men are not required to dress professional to hide their gender- no one is worried about getting turned on watching a guy give a Power Point.
Women, not only have worry about dress professional (clean and well groomed), but whether a percentage of the males in the audience are thinking about how fuck-able the women is. Aka male gaze as the professor states.
The problem isn't what the women is wearing- she could be dressed in a burka, and some men would still get horny. Yet blame is forced on the women for distracting the men, instead demanding men have better impulse control over the sexual urges in a business setting.
The professor is wrong to body shame any women for what they wear at the exclusion of not shaming some men for not having the ability to look beyond sex in a professional setting.
THE PROFESSOR DIDN'T SAY THAT.By telling her she is inviting men to look at her body if she does.
It's one thing to say don't wear shorts to formal presentations, it's an entirely different subject to say don't wear shorts because then men will look at you sexually.
Men are not required to dress professional to hide their gender- no one is worried about getting turned on watching a guy give a Power Point.
Women, not only have worry about dress professional (clean and well groomed), but whether a percentage of the males in the audience are thinking about how fuck-able the women is. Aka male gaze as the professor states.
The problem isn't what the women is wearing- she could be dressed in a burka, and some men would still get horny. Yet blame is forced on the women for distracting the men, instead demanding men have better impulse control over the sexual urges in a business setting.
The professor is wrong to body shame any women for what they wear at the exclusion of not shaming some men for not having the ability to look beyond sex in a professional setting.
Wrong. That did not happen. It's probably what the student wishes would have been said to validate her totally inappropriate 'protest' though.By telling her she is inviting men to look at her body if she does.
It's one thing to say don't wear shorts to formal presentations, it's an entirely different subject to say don't wear shorts because then men will look at you sexually.
Men are not required to dress professional to hide their gender- no one is worried about getting turned on watching a guy give a Power Point.
Women, not only have worry about dress professional (clean and well groomed), but whether a percentage of the males in the audience are thinking about how fuck-able the women is. Aka male gaze as the professor states.
The problem isn't what the women is wearing- she could be dressed in a burka, and some men would still get horny. Yet blame is forced on the women for distracting the men, instead demanding men have better impulse control over the sexual urges in a business setting.
The professor is wrong to body shame any women for what they wear at the exclusion of not shaming some men for not having the ability to look beyond sex in a professional setting.
I still side with Chai. I understand the professor's intentions, but it's a point that needs to be challenged more often. It kinda feels like something a professor thought was smart to do 20 years ago and has kept doing with every class since.
I don't disagree with anything you said, but no one gave a shit how we looked at my thesis practice sessions. Hell, I had mono when it was time to practice and basically rolled in dressed like I was going to bed right when I was done (I was) and the profs never said anything. It was stated when we began that we had to dress professionally for the actual presentation though. But we weren't graded on the practice sessions.
I think it should be noted that there are pretty big differences in terms of dress code for business and academia.
In universities its usually very lax.
Why assume the "real world" will beat them down when they may be the ones beating down barriers in the "real world"? Change happens because people make an effort to change things.College is so fucking strange.
Wait until the real world hit's these people.
We were expected to dress up to some extent when I gave the presentation for my Master's thesis. Definitely not suit and tie level, but dressing more casually than a "business casual" type outfit would have been seen as disrespectful. Even in classes my cohort often dressed similarly when we gave presentations that were graded.
Not sure what "very lax" means to you but I've never seen anyone present in jeans and a t-shirt past intro-level courses, and I wouldn't consider bachelor's coursework to be indicative of "academia."
By omitting it you are steering the conversation in the way you want it to go but I suspect you already know that.That would mean even more of the article in the OP, which already touches on the prof's PoV and contains a quote.
Not to mention, this is all on the first page of the thread. Along with a second article, and quotes from such, that provides more information.
If people are going to discuss, the links are right there, and there are no paywalls. If people are going to drop hot takes w/o reading, well, at least we know who to ignore.
Wrong. That did not happen. It's probably what the student wishes would have been said to validate her totally inappropriate 'protest' though.
A viva for a thesis is not coursework. I did my masters viva in jeans and a long sleeved shirt. Will probably do the same for my PhD.
Why assume the "real world" will beat them down when they may be the ones beating down barriers in the "real world"? Change happens because people make an effort to change things.
What she did was incredibly brave! Content of words and character trump superficial wardrobe conduct.
I think it should be noted that there are pretty big differences in terms of dress code for business and academia.
In universities its usually very lax. I went to my undergrad viva and presentation in jeans and a T-shirt. No one said anything.
That doesn't mean I am a fan of dress codes in business.
Why assume the "real world" will beat them down when they may be the ones beating down barriers in the "real world"? Change happens because people make an effort to change things.
What she did was incredibly brave! Content of words and character trump superficial wardrobe conduct.
I did both at the same time for Science, believe it or not.
There is a sense of pride when you present your thesis and pretty much a given you make an effort.
Oh when SHE does it she's a HERO... but when I do it I'm suddenly no longer "allowed" at Universal Studios!
It will be mighty ironic if we turn around and say dressing a certain way should not matter...after pretty much everyone that commented in that other thread came to consensus that a flashy belt was not appropriate business attire for work.
I don't understand your first sentence.
Regarding the second, If a sense of effort is not conveyed in the presentation or the 200 page document you have presented, a nice wardrobe will not make up for it.
It's not difficult sweetheart, read the post I quoted again. <3
And then ask again.
This is like the ultra-feminist version of the "Militant Marxist atheist profressor challenges god-loving Christian student" chain e-mail.
And in the real world, she's getting noticed and getting attention. Her message is getting traction. A thesis is at its best when it's able to make an impact and has influence.
I gave you a love heart and asked you to read my post again?Whats with the hostility, I asked you to clarify what you meant because I can't understand it.
Why be demeaning? "Sweetheart"? Come onIt's not difficult sweetheart, read the post I quoted again. <3
You're just saying pretty much the same thing the person I quoted said, I don't know why you quoted me or where we're supposed to go from here. I don't know where this mythical "real world" is and why she is somehow not a part of it, and I read stories all the time about brave people who buck the defeatism you're presenting. Look at someone like Emma Gonzalez, I bet there's a ton of shitheads who said things like "oh she can have her fun now but wait till she enters the real world", like what does that even mean? or the kids walking out of school because of gun violence, I bet plenty of people said "yeah but they would never walk out of their JOB like that!"
The reason it's getting traction is because it's a 'sexy story' for the media.