Chris Hayes supports article comparing firing of Gina Carano to blacklisting of supposed Communists in 1950s Hollywood

[CatAssTrophy]

I'll also add that it's really hard not to read shit like this as anything other than:

A. Hand-wringing "aww man I really liked her on that show I like!" and figuring out a way to tAsTeFuLlY complain about it.
and/or
B. Concern about losing that sweet sweet centrist audience if you don't fill your monthly quota of pandering to the right.

 

[UltraGashInferno]

It's America. You can be fired for any or no reason at all, depending on the terms of the contract, as long as it doesn't violate a federally protected class.

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Conservatives: Hmmm federally protected class, that's a great idea! There are none more oppressed... And all because we believe Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are actually one being called Roxtrokeronous who has subsisted for millenia off of the marrow of American first born sons.

 

[ClickyCal']

I'll also add that it's really hard not to read shit like this as anything other than:

A. Hand-wringing "aww man I really liked her on that show I like!" and figuring out a way to tAsTeFuLlY complain about it.
and/or
B. Concern about losing that sweet sweet centrist audience if you don't fill your monthly quota of pandering to the right.

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I doubt it's the latter because he has been constantly saying everyday that any single accomplice to the insurrection needs to be put in prison, and centrists don't take to that.

 

[SquirrelSr]

Maybe conservatives should stop being racists and anti-maskers then.

 

[UltraGashInferno]

Maybe conservatives should stop being racists and anti-maskers then.

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Not sure where they're supposed to go after dropping the party's 2 most important platforms right now (aside from "fuck themselves")

 

[Thordinson]

He's basically going "well, what she's doing is kinda the new normal?", and while he admits it's an issue, isn't he 100% implying that if anti-semitism is popular, it's not okay to keep firing people for it?
I don't have a solution either, but I don't think "stop having severe consequences for being horrible" is a good first step.

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The solution is to keep firing people for being anti-Semitic. It doesn't matter how "popular" it is. It's abhorrent. He can say these things because it doesn't affect him.

You can't give an inch on things like this. There is a line in the sand with bigotry, racism, transphobia, homophobia, etc. If they cross it, they should be fired.

 

[Nooblet]

No one fired her for being a conservative. There can be conservatives who aren't shit like her, as hard as it may be, it's possible (ex UK speaker John Bercow come to mind). She was fired for being trash.

 

[Inugami]

She did not get fired for being conservative. She got fired for being antisemitic and transphobic amongst other things.

The only way you can construe this as anticonservative is to admit that conservatives are antisemitic, racists, transphobic, etc.

Do not let anyone reframe this as anything but.

 

[platocplx]

He's basically going "well, what she's doing is kinda the new normal?", and while he admits it's an issue, isn't he 100% implying that if anti-semitism is popular, it's not okay to keep firing people for it?
I don't have a solution either, but I don't think "stop having severe consequences for being horrible" is a good first step.

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"Millions of people think other people shouldnt exists hur-dur just accept this toxic logic"

I can't believe people are more mad at these asshole not being welcome in society and not questioning why they are even having these awful regressive thoughts and ideas.

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

I get the question Chris is asking.

But the answer shouldn't be too remove consequences or normalize heinous behaviour because half the country is off their rocker.

 

[platocplx]

I've only heard of the guy today, but how the hell is that even possible, the guy is currently the human version of

, going "The real question is, how much anti-semitism is too much?"



Like, I get the general premise of "many people are shit, how shitty should they be allowed to be", but the entire conversation is happening in the context of a woman losing her position over some TRULY heinous shit.

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How the hell is this so hard. The line is easy anti-Semitic, racist, sexist and homo/transphobia that's the line. It's not hard.

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

Also where was this defense force for "alternate viewpoints" when CNN fired Marc Lamont Hill?

 

[Fisty]

I mean... I agree with the 100% literal reading of that headline he's responding to

But Carano wasn't fired for being conservative. Hopefully Hayes just forgot to add some nuance to his tweet or something

 

[ThatThomas]

Is this even her actually getting fired, or aren't they just choosing to not hire her again?

 

[SapientWolf]

This is how bigotry gains a foothold into the mainstream. Arguments like this from people like this.

 

[floridaguy954]

I'm so fucking tired of racism, anti-vax, and transphobic views - any and all this shit really - hiding behind the veil of "It's my political views". Fuck off.

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Exactly.

If you believe that racism, bigotry, transphobia, etc are just "conservative opinions," you can fuck off.

Those people deserve to get de-platformed and "cancelled."

 

[The4thJeazy]

Got dammit Chris I know you're smarter than that

 

[GeoGonzo]

She wasn't fired "for being a conservative" and it is kinda scary some people think that was the case because it implies ALL her shitty views are the base of "being a conservative"

...or maybe it is =P

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[Heynongman!]

How the hell is this so hard. The line is easy anti-Semitic, racist, sexist and homo/transphobia that's the line. It's not hard.

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Is your belief harmful to a subset of people? If yes: fired, if no: no worries. It's as fucking easy as this.

 

[Creation_Scapes]

I honestly wasn't expecting this from him :/

 

[Aurongel]

She's more than welcome to publicly demonstrate personal progress she's making to rid herself of that hateful toxicity. Seriously, our culture isn't beyond forgiving her - but the burden of proof for personal change is entirely on HER.

Classic Hollywood blacklists were categorical in their application and weren't something you could "redeem" yourself from.

 

[Doc Holliday]

NYmag did write an article about Gabrielle Union, I remember reading it a while back. Not sure if it was Chait or not. Doesn't matter, bad take by Chait and Chris Hayes. I don't think he deserves the amount hate he's getting, but he's wrong nonetheless.

 

[Deleted member 5865]

I think he should've had this convo with some fellow writers/journalists/etc off of Twitter, because if there's a nuanced conversation to be had here it's not really possible on that platform (and not possible in a giant convo)

 

[Cotton McKnight]

How is this blacklisting if the majority of the country would agree with topic of firing being based on antisemitism? What are you thinking Chris?

 

[Surakian]

I think he should've had this convo with some fellow writers/journalists/etc off of Twitter, because if there's a nuanced conversation to be had here it's not really possible on that platform (and not possible in a giant convo)

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The thing about it is that this shouldn't even be a nuanced discussion. You can't intellectually reject the ideals and opinions of bigots but also claim that we as a society shouldn't punish those bigots as they proclaim their hate on the rooftops.

If regressive beliefs weren't on the rise like they were, there may be merit in theorizing on the concept, but these words have direct actions. We are watching the normalization of bigotry through reductive thread-pulling and bad faith arguments.

 

[JohnDusk]

This kind of takes trivializes the witch hunt and all the heinous shit tha McCarthy pulled. At the very least is disrespecful and irresponsible.

 

[effingvic]

This is such an awful take. He should be way smarter than that. What the fuck

 

[Gigglepoo]

Have these people never heard of at-will employment? All of us can be fired for no reason at all; of course you can get fired for spouting inflammatory nonsense! Why would Disney want their shows and movies connected to anti-vax, antisemitic, transphobia? Just like all people who, I don't know, walk around their offices without clothes are "blackballed," so too are the people who spout harmful and dangerous opinions.

 

[astro]

She wasn't fricking fired for being conservative... she was fire for a long string of outright cruel, bigotry and science denial capped off with one of the most ignorant comparisons ever made.

How do so, so many seemingly capable people fall for such dishonest framing?

 

[Fat4all]

this is veering sharply into "conservatives should have protections to be bigoted" territory

 

[Slayven]

this is veering sharply into "conservatives should have protections to be bigoted" territory

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Yep, some folk's humanity is up to debate to these people

 

[Wolfe]

I think his mistake was probably not clarifying what his issues with the article were. I think he probably will clarify it in the future, and I think immediately demonizing someone like him for something like this is a huge mistake.

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You "think" that was his mistake? Naw this was a dumb move he didn't think through enough, that's on him and people have every right to drag him for it.

 

[Kraid]

I generally love Chris, and think he's usually pretty spot on but when he misses, he fucking misses.

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

this is veering sharply into "conservatives should have protections to be bigoted" territory

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It is exactly that. His follow up tweets literally make that argument.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

this stuff is like sport commentary for chris

 

[echoshifting]

Yeah uh the follow-up tweets do not paint a pretty picture of Chris' motives. nobody should be giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

His argument basically amounts to "majority of Republicans support Gina. Ergo you'd have to excise majority of Republicans for their abhorrent views from civil society which might be bad".

Okay and?

 

[echoshifting]

The guy was raised Roman Catholic so safe money is on Slayven's earlier point about white nonsense being correct. How do you square the views of shitty people you still talk to with consequences for those with the same views.

It was the same with my ex-wife and her family.

 

[Mahonay]

Fucking clown

 

[Chie Satonaka]

How unfortunate.

You could have just stayed out of this one, Chris.

 

[Palette Swap]

If you follow him, he's right more often that not, but at the end of the day, he's a white dude who can tap out and comment on shit from the side.

 

[SlickVic]

This lady has posted stupid things against mask wearing and the vaccine in the height of a pandemic, which this article seems to conveniently ignore. Also the fact that her views on 'voter fraud' in the election are just brushed off as 'well, that's what Republicans believe' is just unintentionally hilarious to me. It reads like 'Doesn't matter if there's no facts or evidence to back it up, but if they believe it, then it's a strong and valid opinion!'

This isn't some philosophical difference in subjective opinions, this is someone being straight up anti-science and full on conspiracy theorist, among other things.

Honestly, the idea that articles like this are attempting to normalize this type of behavior as 'oh that's just a political belief' is probably the most unsettling part of all this. Are we really just going to let people share wild conspiracy theories and tout anti-science rhetoric as simply being 'political expression' and then allow them freedom from consequence of expressing those views? I hope not.

And whatever Disney's ultimate underlying motivation was for firing her, I'm glad this at least demonstrated that there are consequences so saying harmful things on the internet. If people want to spin that into 'fired for being a conservative', then I think it just becomes that much more important for us to push back and really identify and recognize what modern 'conservatism' is today if that's the case, and call it out for what it is.

 

[CatAssTrophy]

His argument basically amounts to "majority of Republicans support Gina. Ergo you'd have to excise majority of Republicans for their abhorrent views from civil society which might be bad".

Okay and?

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"On one hand, these people over here want to change some laws because not everyone is treated equally. On the other hand, these other people over here want to kill everyone that doesn't look or think the way they do.

We should validate both. :)"

 

[curiouscharles]

Um, she's not being fired for being "conservative", she's being fired for being a piece of trash.

We can't allow "conservative" to be used for people of this new version of far-right-wing bigotry and hatred [read: pure evil, essentially].

 

[Sensei]

i dont know what to think of all these articles about conservative cancellation and like trump getting banned from twitter being a bad omen

union organizers get worse for less, regular people get banned and fired all the time, but conservatism is what gets the media worked up

 

[lorddarkflare]

Chris Hayes never had me fooled. He's always had shit or questionable takes. Maddow has been consistent as fuck for the last 15+ years I've seen her on tv. Continues to be the best opinion personality on MSNBC.

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Yes, I like Hayes well enough, despite how garbage this take is, but Maddow is the only consistently worthy MSNBC personality.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Absolute circus clown

 

[PhoenixAKG]

I'm debating someone on this issue and they say what she said wasn't anti-semitism as according to them: "Anti semitism is promotion of hatred of Jews and discriminating against them. As a conservative she was drawing a parallel between HER GROUP (conservatives) and Jews. So unless you think she was insulting herself, it wasn't antisemitic".

I know this is wrong, but I was wondering if someone could help me articulate in better terms why it is and show clearly it was anti-semitic.

 

[Surakian]

I'm debating someone on this issue and they say what she said wasn't anti-semitism as according to them: "Anti semitism is promotion of hatred of Jews and discriminating against them. As a conservative she was drawing a parallel between HER GROUP (conservatives) and Jews. So unless you think she was insulting herself, it wasn't antisemitic".

I know this is wrong, but I was wondering if someone could help me articulate in better terms why it is and show clearly it was anti-semitic.

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She was undervaluing the struggle Jewish people went through during the Holocaust by comparing a group of people who hold power and are allowed to actively spread their views to a group of people who literally died just for existing.

By creating a false equivalency, she is both propping up her bigotry and undermining the literal inhumane treatment of Jewish people.

Also, by claiming it was not the Nazis who killed Jewish people but their neighbors is also removing the blame off of their shoulders. It's common dogwhistle shit.

 

[thermopyle]

Yeah, no Chris. Being fired is exactly the proper response. And she's not blacklisted, she gets to work on those wonderful indie films with Shapiro now!