You actually wrote something as condescending and obnoxious as that, and then followed it up by listing these as genuine examples with a straight face?Ignorance IS a bliss! Oh boy, hope you do not have any cats yourself. :)
...
Raptors are plenty in uk too, more than 15 different species. Eagles, hawks and falcons... Buzzard just being one mention worth kind of the plenty. Owls do exist in UK too.
Snakes do exist in UK too. Dont underestimate the power of rats. And the most ignored one are ticks.
So you know better based on your image of cats than research?This is such absolute nonsense I don't even know where to begin. Yes playing with your cat and giving it an enriched environment is better than not doing so. But to think that can fully replace the animals natural instincts and desires for exploring, hunting, interacting with other cats, patrolling their territory etc. is just wilful ignorance. Some cats aren't bothered by that stuff and would rather sit inside by the fireplace but I'm yet to meet one.
boars are dangerous, if you cross path with one you fucking prey for your life. If you encounter one, especially during the time they care for their youngsters you need a wonder to survive.
i never said it'd be a danger specific to uk, but that boar are dangerous is common knowledge, (and yeah boar do expose danger to cats, but not in uk. For that you have the other 11 animals)
Same applies for seagulls (which are indeed pretty famous for their potential dangers). I dont need to read articles about lions to know i fucking better watch my steps when i ever travel to a place that has these animals. You do not need a proof for their danger. Why'd you need that for predators such as owls, seagulls or hawks?
Sorry, but claiming uk has no natural predators and owners are in no need to be afraid of losing their pets... that's wish thinking.
many people dont, that's why cats are forced to seek enrichment in the dangerous outside world that cannot compete even remotely with proper enrichment set ups.
im basing it on studies and documentations. Research done on cats with gopros and gps trackers.
There used to be a number of volcanoes that were once active around the British Isles eons ago.Trees have a tendency to fall over.
Keep your cats away from trees.
🐈🚫🌳
This.
So you know better based on your image of cats than research?
keep going.
Cat Tracking: GPS-Daten zeigen, wo Katzen sich rumtreiben
Auf den Spuren von 900 Katzen: Um Haus- und Wildtiere besser zu schützen, haben Forscher den Bewegungsradius der Stubentiger analysiert.www.nationalgeographic.de
Indoor. Outdoor cats have a far lower life expectancy. Plus they tend to get picked up or moved around (at least in the US which sorta views every outdoor cat as homeless or feral)
Hoo boy, this thread is something.
Our family cat liked to split her time between being indoors and outdoors when she was younger, although it's worth noting that my parents have a pretty large garden in a quiet area. She did have a near miss with a car years ago that caused her to curtail how far she went, but otherwise she would quite happily go outside to prowl around. Now she's well into her later years (18, I think), she mostly stays indoors as her hearing and general mobility have degraded a bit, but she quite likes going into the garden if we're outside as well.
Trees have a tendency to fall over.
Keep your cats away from trees.
🐈🚫🌳
The lies! This thread has taught me that your cat not only hated going outside, but also died at least 13 years ago.
Disgusting.
Different studies about different topics are not directly comparable. Especially not if the source is "some people say" instead of giving links so one can properly check sources and studies made.It is not that simple. In the UK - where the vast majority of cats are indoor / outdoor actual studies have shown the average UK cat lives to 14.
The same people saying outdoor cats live massively reduced life spans are stating studies that show an average indoor cat living just 10-15 years. So apparently outdoor cats in the UK on average outlive their indoor US counterparts.
Now obviously there are more regional dangers in some areas than others - the UK is basically a safe haven for cats in many regards but mostly this disparity is because studies showing an outdoor cat lives 2-5 years is talking about feral cats / cats born in the wild or on the streets and not actual domestic cats that pop out a few hours a day.
Different studies about different topics are not directly comparable. Especially not if the source is "some people say" instead of giving links so one can properly check sources and studies made.
Thank you, even if I'm not entirely sure why I seemingly offended you :D I'm sorry for that, that wasn't my intention.The topic is how long indoor / outdoor cats live. People google it, look at the alarming 2-5 years result and go from there. They don't bother telling you these numbers come from studies where the overwhelming majority are non-domestic cats. Because they've never looked into it more to find out. So we are talking about the same topic but one side is giving completely useless, misleading data. Meanwhile us UK folk, repeatedly being accused of morally abhorrent behaviour, not caring or actually being interested in our cats - due to our cats being indoor / outdoor - have repeatedly provided links for all manner of UK relevant info and all that has happened is that it has been ignored / dismissed.
So forgive me for not endlessly linking or quoting the studies that has already been done many times with absolutely zero recognition from the morally superior indoor cats owners. Guess I didn't feel like wasting more of my time? But here you go anyway -
There have been 2 posts on this topic in the past few days and throughout both people have been calling outdoor cat owners irresponsible assholes who want their cats to die an early death and hate their local ecosystem.Thank you, even if I'm not entirely sure why I seemingly offended you :D I'm sorry for that, that wasn't my intention.
So if I read correctly, the number one cause of death seems to be trauma, and since the study doesn't specify either indoor or outdoor, just domestic in general, and indoor trauma doesn't strike me as being this likely in terms of numbers, I'm assuming this particular study collects both? The trauma and non-specific illness COD's makes sense to me then, but it doesn't really say anything concrete about indoor v outdoor cats.
Thank you, even if I'm not entirely sure why I seemingly offended you :D I'm sorry for that, that wasn't my intention.
So if I read correctly, the number one cause of death seems to be trauma, and since the study doesn't specify either indoor or outdoor, just domestic in general, and indoor trauma doesn't strike me as being this likely in terms of numbers, I'm assuming this particular study collects both? The trauma and non-specific illness COD's makes sense to me then, but it doesn't really say anything concrete about indoor v outdoor cats.
Lightning can strike at random.Houses catch fire all the time.
Better keep your cat outside of the house.
🐈🔥🏠
Not gonna argue about catified inside being better than outside, but I mean, if the question is generally if the right inside environment can equally serve a cats instincts, then yes, that is proven. Outside simply provides all that enrichment by default (well, exempting a few kind of areas even cats wouldnt like to live in) while you have to work to provide it if you keep the cat/cats indoors. Not sure what about that is ignorance when the research is there compared to the murky lifespan issue. Whether you have met a cat like that or not has no bearing on it.But to think that can fully replace the animals natural instincts and desires for exploring, hunting, interacting with other cats, patrolling their territory etc. is just wilful ignorance. Some cats aren't bothered by that stuff and would rather sit inside by the fireplace but I'm yet to meet one.
To be fair, if there were actually a big disparity between outdoor and indoor cat lifespans in the UK, the 10-15% or whatever it is of indoor cats would drag the average lifespan up in that study. But there's no telling if it does or if the gap is actually small anyway without that breakdown. Only thing we can reasonably assume is that even assuming UK is a cat heaven, outdoor cats will still have at least a slightly smaller lifespan. The extent is the question, but no way to know without a thorough study.It is not that simple. In the UK - where the vast majority of cats are indoor / outdoor actual studies have shown the average UK cat lives to 14.
The same people saying outdoor cats live massively reduced life spans are stating studies that show an average indoor cat living just 10-15 years. So apparently outdoor cats in the UK on average outlive their indoor US counterparts.
Who cares. Dogs have the same natural instincts yet responsible owners manage just fine without letting them roam free. People are responsible for keeping their pets occupied and active. And in the end, protecting nature and wild animals is more important than people's pets.This is such absolute nonsense I don't even know where to begin. Yes playing with your cat and giving it an enriched environment is better than not doing so. But to think that can fully replace the animals natural instincts and desires for exploring, hunting, interacting with other cats, patrolling their territory etc. is just wilful ignorance. Some cats aren't bothered by that stuff and would rather sit inside by the fireplace but I'm yet to meet one.
To be fair, if there were actually a big disparity between outdoor and indoor cat lifespans in the UK, the 10-15% or whatever it is of indoor cats would drag the average lifespan up in that study. But there's no telling if it does or if the gap is actually small anyway without that breakdown. Only thing we can reasonably assume is that even assuming UK is a cat heaven, outdoor cats will still have at least a slightly smaller lifespan. The extent is the question, but no way to know without a thorough study.
And in the end, protecting nature and wild animals is more important than people's pets.
Outdoor cats decimate surrounding small wildlife and that is a big problem.
You can also mitigate this by not letting your cat out at dawn or dusk.Guys. Please read the thread. People have gone through this several times already. This is not the case in every single country.
If you live in a country where cats are a danger to the local ecosystem, then by all means keep them indoors. I commend you for doing so. Just don't assume that every country is the same because that's not how it works.
No, it is not, not sure how you're not getting this. The only thing you can only broadly tell from that study is as you say the average lifespan of an outdoor cat in the UK, since there's still only a small indoor cat factor involved - 12-13 according to the most generous amount of long living indoor cats and your quick math - but what is missing is the actual average lifespan of an indoor cat to compare, which might well be even higher and which you can't tell at all because of the small percentage of indoor cats in the study and there being no breakdown. (Which isn't the fault of the study - that wasn't the aim, we're just trying to read something from it that it wasn't made for.)Again, this is dismissing a perfectly relevant study for no reason. Even if you go out of your way to assume the oldest cats are all indoors and account for 15% of all cats (when in reality it is nowhere near this - especially for a decade old study where indoor cats were even less of a thing than they are now) the average age is still 12-13 - a far cry from the 2-5 years often thrown around in here.
No, it is not, not sure how you're not getting this. The only thing you can only broadly tell from that study is as you say the average lifespan of an outdoor cat in the UK, since there's still only a small indoor cat factor involved - 12-13 according to the most generous amount of long living indoor cats and your quick math - but what is missing is the actual average lifespan of an indoor cat to compare, which might well be even higher and which you can't tell at all because of the small percentage of indoor cats in the study and there being no breakdown. (Which isn't the fault of the study - that wasn't the aim, we're just trying to read something from it that it wasn't made for.)
I'm not arguing about the 2-5 years figure, that study is flawed anyway and there will be differences in regions.
Indoor cars are better for the environment.Europe here I don't think we've ever had a car that we didn't let wander around for a few hours a day. Like everyone else on the street.
Oh dear, maybe you should reread Kyuuji's post again and post they were quoting 🤣This has been discussed to death in the thread. It greatly varies on the country and its wildlife.
Also has been discussed a lot, there's no evidence that outdoor cats live shorter lives. On the contrary, a study shows that the average life of a cat in the UK (where 90% of the cats are outdoor) is 12-14 years, which is pretty much on par with indoor cats. And I really doubt an indoor cat requires less maintenance than an outdoor cat.
To be fair, it is an easy typo to miss. And it has been said so many times in this thread already.Oh dear, maybe you should reread Kyuuji's post again and post they were quoting 🤣
The word "wooooosh" springs to mind here!
Oh, for sure. But it just made me chuckle because it was just a couple of silly posts ribbing a little typo, and the people doing the ribbing have already made their position totally clear - which is in agreement with viral in the first place :)To be fair, it is an easy typo to miss. And it has been said so many times in this thread already.
I feel ya ;-)Oh, for sure. But it just made me chuckle because it was just a couple of silly posts ribbing a little typo, and the people doing the ribbing have already made their position totally clear - which is in agreement with viral in the first place :)
Enviromental, lifespan issues have been discussed to death in this thread so you can scroll up if you're interested in that. But how does an outdoor cat require more maintenance? My cat has no litter box, I don't have to worry about a lack of exercise and my house isn't catified or w/e it's called because it's not necessary.