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Cats: Indoors or Outdoors
- Thread starter Pikachu
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Mine stay inside in my small-ish city apartment plus a secured roof terrace & balcony, and they're just fine. Every now and then they get to visit my parents, who do have a bigger house plus a secured outside area, whenever I visit (roughly 1-2 times per month, usually).
Free-roaming cats to me seem just dangerous for everyone involved, be it the cats themselves or other animals, not even starting about sicknesses, infections and other "wildlife" dangers that are completely avoidable. Also, a danger to traffic as well, plus the very real danger of being poisoned, abducted, killed by asshole humans.
Can't even count the amount of times friends (and younger me) were devastated because yet another cat died in traffic or just disappeared or found dead for other reasons.
Free-roaming cats to me seem just dangerous for everyone involved, be it the cats themselves or other animals, not even starting about sicknesses, infections and other "wildlife" dangers that are completely avoidable. Also, a danger to traffic as well, plus the very real danger of being poisoned, abducted, killed by asshole humans.
Can't even count the amount of times friends (and younger me) were devastated because yet another cat died in traffic or just disappeared or found dead for other reasons.
You actually wrote something as condescending and obnoxious as that, and then followed it up by listing these as genuine examples with a straight face?
Literally one of the most embarassing posts I've ever read on this website. I can't believe I'm actually considering using the ignore function on Era for the first time in almost four years.
So you know better based on your image of cats than research?
keep going.
Cat Tracking: GPS-Daten zeigen, wo Katzen sich rumtreiben
Auf den Spuren von 900 Katzen: Um Haus- und Wildtiere besser zu schützen, haben Forscher den Bewegungsradius der Stubentiger analysiert.
And why do you think that is....? Because there are so many instances people are bored of reporting on it or perhaps the complete opposite.
You're either being wilfully obtuse, or you're just not getting it. Yes, boars can be dangerous. Yes, a boar could be dangerous to a cat. Are boars a known risk to cats? No they're not. Are boars something that cats regularly encounter? No, they're not. Same for all the other animals you're suggesting.
Essentially, please show me something that states that boars, snakes, seagulls etc prey on house cats. You can't, because they don't.
We can all make idiotic claims about risk. In your house you have bleach and other cleaning products I assume, dangerous if a cat ingested it. Is your cat likely to ingest bleach? Or fall down the stairs? Or get it's head stuck in the toilet? Of skewer itself on the knives in the draw? Obviously not but by your logic, your house is a death trap.
No one is claiming this. I'm not claiming this.
So you keep claiming but I'm not hearing or seeing anything that carries weight.
What?
There used to be a number of volcanoes that were once active around the British Isles eons ago.
Better keep them in just in case they suddenly go off again, too.
Oh, and there was that minor earthquake near Grimsby that one time. Anyone in Yorkshire who lets their cats outside is just willfully negligent tbh
Hoo boy, this thread is something.
Our family cat liked to split her time between being indoors and outdoors when she was younger, although it's worth noting that my parents have a pretty large garden in a quiet area. She did have a near miss with a car years ago that caused her to curtail how far she went, but otherwise she would quite happily go outside to prowl around. Now she's well into her later years (18, I think), she mostly stays indoors as her hearing and general mobility have degraded a bit, but she quite likes going into the garden if we're outside as well.
Our family cat liked to split her time between being indoors and outdoors when she was younger, although it's worth noting that my parents have a pretty large garden in a quiet area. She did have a near miss with a car years ago that caused her to curtail how far she went, but otherwise she would quite happily go outside to prowl around. Now she's well into her later years (18, I think), she mostly stays indoors as her hearing and general mobility have degraded a bit, but she quite likes going into the garden if we're outside as well.
So you know better based on your image of cats than research?
keep going.
Cat Tracking: GPS-Daten zeigen, wo Katzen sich rumtreiben
Auf den Spuren von 900 Katzen: Um Haus- und Wildtiere besser zu schützen, haben Forscher den Bewegungsradius der Stubentiger analysiert.www.nationalgeographic.de
That link you posted does nothing to refute my statement
It is not that simple. In the UK - where the vast majority of cats are indoor / outdoor actual studies have shown the average UK cat lives to 14.
The same people saying outdoor cats live massively reduced life spans are stating studies that show an average indoor cat living just 10-15 years. So apparently outdoor cats in the UK on average outlive their indoor US counterparts.
Now obviously there are more regional dangers in some areas than others - the UK is basically a safe haven for cats in many regards but mostly this disparity is because studies showing an outdoor cat lives 2-5 years is talking about feral cats / cats born in the wild or on the streets and not actual domestic cats that pop out a few hours a day.
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America Inside for mine.
I live in the city and in a busy street so i don't trust it at all one bit.
I do take her out for walks around the block regularly so she can get her fill of bird attacking but it's inside for the most part.
She was lost once when someone in my house let a upstairs window open and i could not find her for 4 days (i was omega heartbroken during those 4 days) and she did not comeback herself despite being aware of how the neighborhood is and where our house is.
I did luck out on the 5th night where around 1am i was looking outside of my front door in the dead of night because i had left her treats on the front porch in hopes that she would smell them when i saw a cat walking around with a skunk which made me think the cat could be mine (couldn't tell, it was dark and my cat is dark) and i began chasing this cat at 1am like a crazy person.
The cat ended running to another block and hid under a car where i started calling my own cat's name (because i still thought it could be my cat) and luckily i heard my own cat's meow coming from the roof of a house across the street where she had probably been the entire time and couldn't get down from.
Needles to say she's staying an indoor cat.
I live in the city and in a busy street so i don't trust it at all one bit.
I do take her out for walks around the block regularly so she can get her fill of bird attacking but it's inside for the most part.
She was lost once when someone in my house let a upstairs window open and i could not find her for 4 days (i was omega heartbroken during those 4 days) and she did not comeback herself despite being aware of how the neighborhood is and where our house is.
I did luck out on the 5th night where around 1am i was looking outside of my front door in the dead of night because i had left her treats on the front porch in hopes that she would smell them when i saw a cat walking around with a skunk which made me think the cat could be mine (couldn't tell, it was dark and my cat is dark) and i began chasing this cat at 1am like a crazy person.
The cat ended running to another block and hid under a car where i started calling my own cat's name (because i still thought it could be my cat) and luckily i heard my own cat's meow coming from the roof of a house across the street where she had probably been the entire time and couldn't get down from.
Needles to say she's staying an indoor cat.
The lies! This thread has taught me that your cat not only hated going outside, but also died at least 13 years ago.
Disgusting.
Houses catch fire all the time.
Better keep your cat outside of the house.
🐈🔥🏠
Our 15 year old cat is currently having a sleep in her favorite garden chair. Maybe I should go fetch her in before the seagulls / eagles spot her or the deadly grass snakes slither up the path to gobble her up? Maybe she has already been dead 10 years and what I'm actually seeing is some kind of ghost? It's all very confusing
No, your cat won't instantly combust if it goes outside but it's obvious that letting them roam wherever unsupervised is far less safe for them than keeping them in your own home and/or yard.
I've dealt with too many irresponsible cat owners who think their cat is entitled to everyone else's space and take no responsibility for the actions of their pet.
I've dealt with too many irresponsible cat owners who think their cat is entitled to everyone else's space and take no responsibility for the actions of their pet.
Different studies about different topics are not directly comparable. Especially not if the source is "some people say" instead of giving links so one can properly check sources and studies made.
The topic is how long indoor / outdoor cats live. People google it, look at the alarming 2-5 years result and go from there. They don't bother telling you these numbers come from studies where the overwhelming majority are non-domestic cats. Because they've never looked into it more to find out. So we are talking about the same topic but one side is giving completely useless, misleading data. Meanwhile us UK folk, repeatedly being accused of morally abhorrent behaviour, not caring or actually being interested in our cats - due to our cats being indoor / outdoor - have repeatedly provided links for all manner of UK relevant info and all that has happened is that it has been ignored / dismissed.
So forgive me for not endlessly linking or quoting the studies that has already been done many times with absolutely zero recognition from the morally superior indoor cats owners. Guess I didn't feel like wasting more of my time? But here you go anyway -
Thank you, even if I'm not entirely sure why I seemingly offended you :D I'm sorry for that, that wasn't my intention.
So if I read correctly, the number one cause of death seems to be trauma, and since the study doesn't specify either indoor or outdoor, just domestic in general, and indoor trauma doesn't strike me as being this likely in terms of numbers, I'm assuming this particular study collects both? The trauma and non-specific illness COD's makes sense to me then, but it doesn't really say anything concrete about indoor v outdoor cats.
There have been 2 posts on this topic in the past few days and throughout both people have been calling outdoor cat owners irresponsible assholes who want their cats to die an early death and hate their local ecosystem.
Needless to say it's been a hostile few days.
Sorry always difficult to get the tone of a post sometimes, probably due to the overall hostility of this thread I gave it the wrong inflection!
Maybe you are missing the point of providing the study though? The point is there is a big split in here - between (majority) US owners advocating (very strongly / unreasonably / from their moral high horse) that a cat must not be allowed out whatsoever and on the other side UK (mostly) owners suggesting maybe it's actually fine to allow your cat out depending on the circumstances.
We are being told by indoor only proponents not only that outdoor cats actually hate being outside (only venturing out because of the neglect / apathy of their owners) and live incredibly dangerous lives (with a life span of just 2-5 years) and at the very best would live maybe half of that of an indoor cat (which average 10-15 years according to their data).
But obviously this UK study, a country where the overwhelming majority of cats are allowed out and about at their own leisure, are averaging 14 years old. So averaging a better age than the data (provided by the indoor only proponents) suggests indoor only cats achieve.....
Make of all this what you will! Also remember if you ever want to visit the UK to being your snake nets and anti owl hat because otherwise the only way you are getting home is in a coffin I'm afraid
Lightning can strike at random.
Keep your cats away from the open sky.
🐈🚫☁️
Not gonna argue about catified inside being better than outside, but I mean, if the question is generally if the right inside environment can equally serve a cats instincts, then yes, that is proven. Outside simply provides all that enrichment by default (well, exempting a few kind of areas even cats wouldnt like to live in) while you have to work to provide it if you keep the cat/cats indoors. Not sure what about that is ignorance when the research is there compared to the murky lifespan issue. Whether you have met a cat like that or not has no bearing on it.
To be fair, if there were actually a big disparity between outdoor and indoor cat lifespans in the UK, the 10-15% or whatever it is of indoor cats would drag the average lifespan up in that study. But there's no telling if it does or if the gap is actually small anyway without that breakdown. Only thing we can reasonably assume is that even assuming UK is a cat heaven, outdoor cats will still have at least a slightly smaller lifespan. The extent is the question, but no way to know without a thorough study.
Keep your cat indoor~
Living in Kaohsiung, and going out to the local seven, I see many hurt stray cat in the street, and being hurt by stray dog, and have known neighbor that had the cat deserve to be free, but shortly after keep the cat in door, because of too many being hurt when leaving it out at night(Fight with other cat, dog)
And one time, sneaked into another neighbor home who has 3 dog(3 Shiba) and a bird, and got hurt bad, but Shiba owner father was home and was able to seperate them.
And if dog have to be leash when going out, cat should too,
We have natice cat specie here in Taiwan from the larger snow leopard to the smaller house cat size Leopard cat that expert say only have less then 500 left.
Living in Kaohsiung, and going out to the local seven, I see many hurt stray cat in the street, and being hurt by stray dog, and have known neighbor that had the cat deserve to be free, but shortly after keep the cat in door, because of too many being hurt when leaving it out at night(Fight with other cat, dog)
And one time, sneaked into another neighbor home who has 3 dog(3 Shiba) and a bird, and got hurt bad, but Shiba owner father was home and was able to seperate them.
And if dog have to be leash when going out, cat should too,
We have natice cat specie here in Taiwan from the larger snow leopard to the smaller house cat size Leopard cat that expert say only have less then 500 left.
Who cares. Dogs have the same natural instincts yet responsible owners manage just fine without letting them roam free. People are responsible for keeping their pets occupied and active. And in the end, protecting nature and wild animals is more important than people's pets.
A quick google search tells me only 10% of cats in the UK are strictly indoor cats and the average lifespan of a cat in the UK is 14 years. That seems like a good average lifespan to me. I know personally I have only met one person here that has a completely indoor cat and it was because he lived in an apartment building high up.
Again, this is dismissing a perfectly relevant study for no reason. Even if you go out of your way to assume the oldest cats are all indoors and account for 15% of all cats (when in reality it is nowhere near this - especially for a decade old study where indoor cats were even less of a thing than they are now) the average age is still 12-13 - a far cry from the 2-5 years often thrown around in here.
Of course keeping a cat indoors is "safer" - given that the study itself has trauma as the most common cause of death it also shows this. The question is the size of the risk in relation to the benefits it provides (some of these benefits likely increasing lifespan).
e.g it is also just as reasonable an assumption as all other assumptions being thrown around that outdoor cats are generally healthier by virtue of the fact they are getting more exercise and are less likely to be overweight / chonkers and are less stressed. I guess without a study very specifically dismissing this assumption it must be true therefore outdoor cats live longer than indoor cats. And seeing as no one will have a study specifically dismissing this we should all believe it?
Guys. Please read the thread. People have gone through this several times already. This is not the case in every single country.
If you live in a country where cats are a danger to the local ecosystem, then by all means keep them indoors. I commend you for doing so. Just don't assume that every country is the same because that's not how it works.
My cat who is 14 years old and has been diabetic the past years, has always been indoors only.
I've been too afraid for her safety, either cars, or people stealing her, or other cats or whatever to let her house side. So always been inside, she never clamors to go outside and one time a few years ago I held her and walked outside and she was shaking like a leaf so I don't think she minds.
All that aside I still feel bad and wish she could have all that life has to offer, hell I even feel bad she was never allowed to have her own kittens and was denied the chance to be a mom, that makes me a bit weepy to be honest, even knowing its for the best and too many cats don't have homes so letting them make more is crazy.
But yeah.
I've been too afraid for her safety, either cars, or people stealing her, or other cats or whatever to let her house side. So always been inside, she never clamors to go outside and one time a few years ago I held her and walked outside and she was shaking like a leaf so I don't think she minds.
All that aside I still feel bad and wish she could have all that life has to offer, hell I even feel bad she was never allowed to have her own kittens and was denied the chance to be a mom, that makes me a bit weepy to be honest, even knowing its for the best and too many cats don't have homes so letting them make more is crazy.
But yeah.
You can also mitigate this by not letting your cat out at dawn or dusk.
No, it is not, not sure how you're not getting this. The only thing you can only broadly tell from that study is as you say the average lifespan of an outdoor cat in the UK, since there's still only a small indoor cat factor involved - 12-13 according to the most generous amount of long living indoor cats and your quick math - but what is missing is the actual average lifespan of an indoor cat to compare, which might well be even higher and which you can't tell at all because of the small percentage of indoor cats in the study and there being no breakdown. (Which isn't the fault of the study - that wasn't the aim, we're just trying to read something from it that it wasn't made for.)
I'm not arguing about the 2-5 years figure, that study is flawed anyway and there will be differences in regions.
Ok sure, I don't think we are actually in disagreement here. The point was this serves as comparison / counterpoint to the people quoting studies that show an average outdoor cat age of 2-5 or half that of an indoor cat - seeing as this study is basically a study of (domestic) outdoor cats lifespan. Whether it's even worth mentioning those other studies (that give a life span of 2-5 years) considering they are pretty much talking about feral / wild cats is another matter but it is those studies people continue to bring up when quoting about average life spans for outdoor cats - despite this UK study conclusively showing drastically different numbers
It wasn't meant within the confines of the own study to serve as a comparison as obviously it says nothing about this (probably because it seemed irrelevant given an overwhelming % of UK cats are mixed indoor / outdoor).
Europe here I don't think we've ever had a car that we didn't let wander around for a few hours a day. Like everyone else on the street.
Who knew that cat owners were so combative. Live and let live people, let's unite in our love of these animals.
This has been discussed to death in the thread. It greatly varies on the country and its wildlife.
Also has been discussed a lot, there's no evidence that outdoor cats live shorter lives. On the contrary, a study shows that the average life of a cat in the UK (where 90% of the cats are outdoor) is 12-14 years, which is pretty much on par with indoor cats. And I really doubt an indoor cat requires less maintenance than an outdoor cat.
Oh dear, maybe you should reread Kyuuji's post again and post they were quoting 🤣
The word "wooooosh" springs to mind here!
To be fair, it is an easy typo to miss. And it has been said so many times in this thread already.
Oh, for sure. But it just made me chuckle because it was just a couple of silly posts ribbing a little typo, and the people doing the ribbing have already made their position totally clear - which is in agreement with viral in the first place :)
Enviromental, lifespan issues have been discussed to death in this thread so you can scroll up if you're interested in that. But how does an outdoor cat require more maintenance? My cat has no litter box, I don't have to worry about a lack of exercise and my house isn't catified or w/e it's called because it's not necessary.
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