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Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,747
I guarantee you there is one defining thing that unites white people regardless of where they're from.
I dunno, isn't it intrinsically difficult to define a culture while you're in it?
I dunno; black Americans can tell you what their modern culture and lived experiences are, as well as appeal back to historical cultural milestones that directly define how we are today.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
any group, ethnicity, religious group, race can be racist towards another.... it's all about HATE, FEAR and DISTRUST.

so to answer OP, Yes
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,929
Sure you can. Hate has no limitations. If you are a hateful person you will always find a target.
 

Artdayne

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,015
I dunno, isn't it intrinsically difficult to define a culture while you're in it? But clearly there are differences in white and black cultures in America, or else it wouldn't be possible to appropriate black culture.

Country music is culturally white, I suppose.

Huge difference between how white and black people have formed their cultures, white people immigrated from throughout Europe with pretty significant cultural differences and some of those still exist today. Black people, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but probably have something more similar to a unified culture because their history was stolen from them and the shared struggle from slavery, Jim Crow and everything else was borne out of that. Though I'm sure if you talk to black people who grew up in cities vs those who grow up in rural environments might have some pretty big cultural differences too.
 

Zip

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,029
Of course. But people really love to dance around the term 'racism' nowadays it seems and apply whatever definition suits their interest. Cue the attempts at splitting hairs seen in this thread.
 

Glasfrut

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,539
Well I guess this depends on how you define racism. Is it solely because of skin color? I mean Roma people get discriminated also by their looks even though they are white. Not just by their culture. Even if you completely discard your roma culture and have high education and high paying job you will experience discrimination because how you look. isn't that racism? Another example. If you are white skinned person from middle east but still don't look like a western european you can't experience racism because your skin color?

Okay, I had a feeling you would zero in on the Roma people. And I'm glad you brought in Middle Eastern people with white(r) skin. I would say they do experience racism, but more so because white people (and others) don't consider them white. For me it brings to mind how the Italians and the Irish were once not considered white in the US.

Which is why I feel there are a few components to consider when discussing this...the biggest one being how people define racism.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,747
White skin isn't culture though.
It isn't white skin indeed (I've already said not all white-skinned people were are or considered white). It's the subconscious belief in white supremacy. You can take a white New Englander and a white Briton and there's a decent chance that neither of them think much of people like me.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
19,013
This as always seemed like a dumb question to me every time I see it.

Cause it always feels like folks are conflating the possibility vs the impact.

Of course, on a micro level anyone of any defined group can be racist to another.

That however does not speak to the level of impact/liklihood of sever responses coming from said racism.
 

Znazzy

Member
Aug 27, 2018
1,243
"Racism" as a broad concept does not require systemic racism or a social/political power imbalance. The term has no unified definition but in a general sense it is simply the act of prejudice of one race over another, and the inherent belief that one race is superior to another. It does not require a larger power imbalance, it does not require institutionalised and enforced socio-political power structure wherein one race is disadvantage and/or a minority towards another. When we speak "racism", we are speaking of racial superiority as an ideology exhibited through action and belief.

The debate of the necessity for advanced/disadvantaged social groups is one fundamentally flawed, as far as I'm concerned. We have terms and phrases to describe this, as institutionalised and systemic racism are born out of individual racism. They are the part of a greater process of racism towards the path of genocide, slavery, and other racially charged forms of oppression and extermination. Lumping this all under the umbrella of "racism", and implying that without oppression or social/political disadvantage for racially identifiable group there is no "racism", in my opinion diminishes the importance of recognising racism as a belief system and ideology responsible to individuals and where the root of systemic racism begins.
This is beautifully said. There are different forms of racism, and systemic racism isn't the end all be all to racism. Racism certainly exists towards white people, and my boyfriend (who is white) experienced it first-hand while trying to open up a business in a predominately black neighborhood.
So I think it's racism, I guess, but not the way we've come to know it in our society, where it's actively damaging, dangerous, and problematic. It's more like getting bullied in elementary school, which still sucks, but isn't the same.

That's just my two cents though.
In the scenario you described, you were actively being discriminated against solely based on the color of your skin. That was racism.
I guarantee you there is one defining thing that unites white people regardless of where they're from.
I really don't understand what you're trying to argue. That white people's culture is white supremacy? That white people don't have culture therefore can't experience racism? I'm confused. Either way, it's extremely unsettling.
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
Let's just go with America, for the sake of argument. What is white American culture?

It varies by region. It's a big country. White people from Southie definitely have a distinct culture, as do the working class whites down in the lowcountry or Shenandoah (they're a lot alike), especially compared to their brown neighbors (for both examples).

Culture is what - food, customs, appreciated forms of art, the collective interests and beliefs of the majority that saturate into the folds of almost all of them. There is so much crossover that it becomes almost meaningless in some settings, sure, but that isn't always the case.
 

Deleted member 56266

Account closed at user request
Banned
Apr 25, 2019
7,291
Why do you believe it is so obvious? Do you not take systemic and historical factors into consideration?

I'm talking about in a vacuum, where of course it is possible. The OP's post is a single line long so I interpreted the question how I like. The fact that there is a systemic problem of racism toward minorities in the US isn't a new idea, but I don't see how because that exists, racism towards white people can't exist in a vacuum. I've seen it first hand at the DMV.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,747
I really don't understand what you're trying to argue. That white people's culture is white supremacy? That white people don't have culture therefore can't experience racism? I'm confused. Either way, it's extremely unsettling.
The former.

Again, the concept of a "white people" was not a naturally-evolved concept born of some shared cultural experience. "Whiteness" was created as a political powerplay by rich Europeans to justify the atrocities of colonialism. That's pretty much all it is, and it's why you can have poor Appalachians consider themselves the same "white people" as middle-class Britons.
 

PoppaBK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,165
If you mean discriminate someone exclusively for being white, technically.

If you mean systematically oppressing their lives for centuries to pipeline their lives into slavery and genocide, then PFFFFFF
Of course. But people really love to dance around the term 'racism' nowadays it seems and apply whatever definition suits their interest. Cue the attempts at splitting hairs seen in this thread.
You see semantic arguments from both sides all the time. People of Mexican and other ethnic south American descent are sometimes considered a 'race' and sometimes not depending on the narrative being spun.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
The thing is not liking white people when you are black can't just be seen as racism.
It's racism, when you judge a total stranger based on their skin color it's racist. That's how the average person views it. Doesn't matter if it's not academically correct.

If my Uncle Tony says "fuck his black ass I'm not doing him any favors" it's racist

If your Uncle Joe says "fuck his white ass I'm not doing him any favors" it's racist.
 

Bleu

Banned
Sep 21, 2018
1,599
of course.
any preconceived opinion, good or bad, about an individual you know nothing about, because of the color of his skin or culture is racism, end of story.
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
It's racism, when you judge a total stranger based on their skin color it's racist. That's how the average person views it. Doesn't matter if it's not academically correct.

If my Uncle Tony says "fuck his black ass I'm not doing him any favors" it's racist

If your Uncle Joe says "fuck his white ass I'm not doing him any favors" it's racist.
Nope, you clearly aren't getting it. If a poc chooses not to trust or like a white person because how they have been treated by white people is not racism.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,110
It isn't white skin indeed (I've already said not all white-skinned people were are or considered white). It's the subconscious belief in white supremacy. You can take a white New Englander and a white Briton and there's a decent chance that neither of them think much of people like me.
You think every white person is, atleast subconsciously, a white supremacist? How do you think people can ever live in peace then?
 

Desmond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,387
Hispanic in the south here.

Its not the same. White people are the benefactors of systemic oppression. The acts and implications are completely different in the extreme outlier case when white people are victimized... so much so that I can't take this question in good faith. They can experience someone people shitty to them. They cannot experience racism in the way that's actually culturally relevant.
Irish weren't considered white in the US in the same way that many don't consider Latin peoples white. They experienced systematic oppression until it was deemed necessary to lump them into white status ( on the census etc)
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
Irish weren't considered white in the US in the same way that many don't consider Latin peoples white. They experienced systematic oppression until it was deemed necessary to lump them into white status ( on the census etc)

Neither were Italians, or pretty much any heavily-migrating white race to the US ever.
 
Jun 4, 2019
593
Calling someone a backwater hick who fucks his cousin could be construed as racist against southern whites. But who the hell cares?
 

Order

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,465
You think every white person is, atleast subconsciously, a white supremacist? How do you think people can ever live in peace then?
Maybe we can live in peace when white people acknowledge their position of power and do something about it, instead of continuing to push down minorities and sticking with the status quo.
 

-COOLIO-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
Why do you believe it is so obvious? Do you not take systemic and historical factors into consideration?

it's obvious because a non white person thinking themselves superior to a white person on the basis of race is not only well within the realm of possibility but it has been observed.

it's as obvious as 1 + 1 = 2.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,679
it's obvious because a non white person thinking themselves superior to a white person on the basis of race is not only well within the realm of possibility but it has been observed.

it's as obvious as 1 + 1 = 2.
Do you have examples of this or

And so what if they do think that when they don't currently have the position to on any scale due to actual racism to deny white people opportunities or other societal benefits?
 

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
Maybe we can live in peace when white people acknowledge their position of power and do something about it, instead of continuing to push down minorities and sticking with the status quo.

Except white people are trying to do something about that. Just because some push for the same status quo (Seriously, there are african american and other minorities who support Trump) doesn't mean all white people are white supremacists.
 

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
Ah, yes, them 8000+ anecdotes from Srebrenica, nothing systemic about them at all.


That massacre was tied to religion, not color of the skin? They didn't get massacred because they were white, but because they were Bosnian Muslims. The perpetrators of this massacre were white Serbians. You keep on quoting this word as a remotely valid counter-argument but I believe you have no idea what were the true motivations of the genocide. Hint: it was not about skin color, it was not about whiteness. Therefore your weakass argument is moot.
 
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-COOLIO-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
Do you have examples of this or

"Now, normally my white skin would admittedly preclude me from even suggesting that a black activist should hang up the megaphone, but Khogali has made a habit of directing violent, hateful language towards people with white skin, so much so that I feel comfortable calling her out. She once mused that just by having white skin, white people are sub-human."


And so what if they do think that when they don't currently have the position to on any scale due to actual racism to deny white people opportunities or other societal benefits?

The actual power dynamics between the races are irrelevant to the definition of racism.
 
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TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
User Banned (1 Month): Inflammatory false equivalence surrounding racism; Prior severe ban concerning prejudice.
Nope, you clearly aren't getting it. If a poc chooses not to trust or like a white person because how they have been treated by white people is not racism.
So you can say whatever you want towards white people due to past experiences? By that logic that person will forever hate white people.

I've been jumped in the wrong part of town late at night when I was a teenager, I don't sit there and judge every single black person I come across because a bunch of drunk idiots where calling me a white cracker while kicking me in the ribs. Because not only would that be racist but incredibly dumb.

Granted sometimes I'll think back on it and wonder "was it cause I was white? Or was it cause I was a idiot for walking alone down a block where a party was going on and drunk kids will be drunk kids"
 

Order

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,465
Except white people are trying to do something about that. Just because some push for the same status quo (Seriously, there are african american and other minorities who support Trump) doesn't mean all white people are white supremacists.
At the end of the day, those minorities voting for Trump don't fucking matter. They're not the ones giving him the majority of his power. If they didn't exist, he'd still win on white votes alone.

We have threads on ResetEra where majority of the people refuse to call out their own racist family members. These are the same people who claim to be allies, do you really think they give a fuck about minorities if they can't even do the bare minimum. Do you really think the world can change if people are to chickenshit to actually help it change?
 

tsampikos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,613
Fine could they experience a deep hatred from another person who is not white simply because they are white? Yes or no?

Your post is what white supremacy looks like.

You have to strip away centuries of culturally relevant nuance to put white people on the same level as others to get your desired answer of yes. The question was so strained that yes is the only reasonable answer one can give... even though comparing experiences is absolutely absurd.

White people can experience bigotry sure. Anyone can for any random reason. Racism however is a system backed by society and white people in this country cannot experience it.

It takes a questionale level of mental gymnastics to ask questions like this.
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
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Oct 25, 2017
15,660
Have white people had their farms, lands, lifes taken away by black people? Do they not know their family tree due to slavery? Do they suffer racism every day they live? That is my point.

If say I was a South Africa and my fam lost it's land to white people then were basically made slaves as well. Then you have the white people that stole all the mines and wealth from South africa, you also have the slaves being killed by white people there. I would be well in my right not to trust white people or want to be around white people. Notice nowhere did I say abuse white people etc.
 

Deleted member 2210

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,366
The former.

Again, the concept of a "white people" was not a naturally-evolved concept born of some shared cultural experience. "Whiteness" was created as a political powerplay by rich Europeans to justify the atrocities of colonialism. That's pretty much all it is, and it's why you can have poor Appalachians consider themselves the same "white people" as middle-class Britons.

Hey now, whites don't shoot whites.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,661
So you can say whatever you want towards white people due to past experiences? By that logic that person will forever hate white people.

I've been jumped in the wrong part of town late at night when I was a teenager, I don't sit there and judge every single black person I come across because a bunch of drunk idiots where calling me a white cracker while kicking me in the ribs. Because not only would that be racist but incredibly dumb.

Granted sometimes I'll think back on it and wonder "was it cause I was white? Or was it cause I was a idiot for walking alone down a block where a party was going on and drunk kids will be drunk kids"
love how you dropped an anecdote as some sort of counter to black people bein oppressed for decades
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
So you can say whatever you want towards white people due to past experiences? By that logic that person will forever hate white people.

I've been jumped in the wrong part of town late at night when I was a teenager, I don't sit there and judge every single black person I come across because a bunch of drunk idiots where calling me a white cracker while kicking me in the ribs. Because not only would that be racist but incredibly dumb.

Granted sometimes I'll think back on it and wonder "was it cause I was white? Or was it cause I was a idiot for walking alone down a block where a party was going on and drunk kids will be drunk kids"
Being jumped by a group of black people is bad, sorry you went through that. But comparing that to how black people have been and still are treated is a stretch.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,525
Some of you guys need to get some education. You can't be racist to white people. It seems that people are mixing up racism and prejudice. You can be prejudiced to white people, but you can't be racist to white people. Racism implies that a person genuinely believes they are better then another person solely based on their skin color. POC people even the most hateful to white people don't believe that hence they are not racist to white people.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,747
You think every white person is, atleast subconsciously, a white supremacist? How do you think people can ever live in peace then?
I don't.

At least not in my lifetime.

I'm destined to die in a world that upholds white supremacist ideals as the norm.

But my consolation is that we get topics like this where white people experience being unsettled for a few moments before forgetting about everything and moving on to the next Star Wars controversy or whatever.
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
It takes a lot of fucking nerve as well as willful cognitive dissonance to bring up any country in Africa as if the conditioms there are completely unrelated to the ravaging white supremacy inflicted on the continent prior.

Reflect on some damn history before posting this nonsense.
I'd like to hear how literally being unable to become a citizen for being white in a country is not racist by the power definition.

That said, for practically everyone in the West, helping PoC is of several orders of magnitude greater importance than white Liberians. I stated it as a technicality, not as some sort of attempted retort against the power + prejudice definition.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,679
The actual power dynamics between the races are irrelevant to the definition of racism.
I hesitate to distill such a large scale concept to what Webster's says racism definitively is.
"Now, normally my white skin would admittedly preclude me from even suggesting that a black activist should hang up the megaphone, but Khogali has made a habit of directing violent, hateful language towards people with white skin, so much so that I feel comfortable calling her out. She once mused that just by having white skin, white people are sub-human. "
So what opportunities or upward momentum has she prevented white people from having by having prejudiced thoughts? It's gross, I agree, but I guess we just disagree on the overall definition.
 

jts

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,018
I try to, but it's not easy.

j/k and yeah of course. Denying this just gives amno to racists.
 
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