I guess they were only willing to move if it resulted in a deal and didn't break the GFA, single market. If they were so willing a while ago, as these unicorn thinkers do, never pleased, keep asking for more.
BREXIT |OT3| I'd Rather Be Inert in a Ditch
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I guess they were only willing to move if it resulted in a deal and didn't break the GFA, single market. If they were so willing a while ago, as these unicorn thinkers do, never pleased, keep asking for more.
Yeah that's my timeline. I'm guessing ten and in that time NI has a border poll and scotland an indyref2, both leaving the UK union.
Please vote for the deal and leave now?
Also far be it from me to underestimate the gullibility of the British voters, but certainly if the deal doesn't go through it has to be game over for Jonhon in an election?
Having accepted this deal leaves him nothing else to campaign on than this particular deal. It's now his deal.
And, just like any other form of Brexit that's actually been legally defined, it sucks and it's easily rubbished from both sides. Farage will say that it's not Brexit enough, Lab and LibDem that it's too Brexit. How does he get out of that?
Also far be it from me to underestimate the gullibility of the British voters, but certainly if the deal doesn't go through it has to be game over for Jonhon in an election?
Having accepted this deal leaves him nothing else to campaign on than this particular deal. It's now his deal.
And, just like any other form of Brexit that's actually been legally defined, it sucks and it's easily rubbished from both sides. Farage will say that it's not Brexit enough, Lab and LibDem that it's too Brexit. How does he get out of that?
You think, this country has had a Tory government for 10 years and might even longer when they are the cause of so much shit. You really think people will come to their senses and think, the EU was actually not bad, it was the UK government at fault.
I agree that it'd be undemocratic, but there's a reasonable argument that the PM can unilaterally revoke Article 50 without needing parliament to vote on it. Parliament explicitly granted the PM the power to invoke Article 50 (not as a once-off, it was a simple addition to the PM's executive-style powers). An argument could be made that with the PM having the power to invoke, the PM should also implicitly have the power to revoke (and no other body in the UK has an explicit power to revoke).
It's far from a watertight argument and I wouldn't like to be relying on it, and I definitely wouldn't want the fate of an entire country to depend on the legal validity of that argument, but it could work.
Numbers look bad for the deal. Not as bad as any of May's attempts, but it'll take some unforeseen surprises for it to pass.
Because the folks in charge don't want to know whether people have changed their minds or not, because they can get what they want as long as nobody knows that. Or so they think, at least.
They won't call another vote because they're afraid it will lead towards remain, undoing all their work to profit off this and/or fuck the poor.
Yes, and it's only as high as 0% because there's no such thing as negative probabilities.
What? No way, UK is leaving for good (or at least for the foreseeable future). They will never again get the sweetheart deal they have now. The British will never give up the Pound, and no way Europe lets them back into the Union while keeping their currency after this long fiasco. If the UK wants back in, the EU will demand they take the Euro to ensure the two economies are more intertwined than they are now.
They really haven't though. Any meaningful shift in numbers is more down to 3 years of old voters dying and more young people now being able to vote.
Someone was saying that they might step down and not run to allow non Sinn Fein Republicans to take seats in Westminister. I dunno if this is some pie in the sky thing or what,.
Maybe they've forgotten their entire raison d'être, or simultaneously sustained massive head trauma and decided the British have a legitiment claim to NI after all. Maybe it's Official Impossible Backwards Day.
Yes, I remember that story, but even if it were true, it would have no effect on the vote on Saturday.
I can't imagine Sinn Féin doing that though. Even that minimal level of recognition of Westminster having legitimacy would probably schism the party.
Looking like Johnson will get it over the line, because the world is set up to reward the absolute worst humanity has to offer.
Don't they have representatives on the parlament? It was my understanding that they did but they chose to not take place on the discussions there, but of course I might be mistaken...
If that was the case, why couldn't they maken an exception on an issue that affects them so much?
I'd like to understand their thinking, specially seeing that the DUP is so adamant againts it
Honestly the most likely outcome.
Sinn Fein are an abstentionist party. Their MPs do not attend Westminster, do not accept pay from Westminster and basically do not acknowledge Westminster unless under duress. They cannot attend parliament for many reasons, the main of which being they were voted in for the express purpose of not attending.
Opposition parties once again with that united front that the Tories love to see.
The reason they don't vote is because they don't recognise the uk as the ruler of Northern Ireland. To vote would be to recognise uk authority. It's never ever ever happening.
One thing is confusing me - as Sunday is the 19th, surely the vote on this *has* to be done on Saturday, or otherwise Johnson has to fire off that letter and ask for an extension right? People were implying the vote would be next week now?
Oh, we in SF generally tend to blame the English and the DUP for letting this happen in the first place, just as a disclaimer.
Anyways, taking seats in the House Of Commons involves effectively swearing fealty to the Queen and recognising the British presence in Ireland as legitimate, which it never really was at any stage in history tbh. Besides, part of the reason voters vote for Sinn Féin is because of its abstaining of Westminster, and we'd lose votes for sure if we betrayed that principle which has been in place since 1918.
Admittedly, not voting on English made messes has its downsides, but doing so would be a betrayal to those who fought and died for the cause, the cause to remind British Imperialism that nobody's fit to serve their precious monarch except for the same English populace who brought us this total shite in the first place.
Sinn Féin don't recognise Westminster as a parliament that has a legitimate right to rule Northern Ireland.
They stand for seats on an abstentionist policy - that if they get elected, they will not sit in parliament. Elected Sinn Féin MPs take their allocated office space in Westminster but don't go through enrolment (which involves swearing an oath of allegiance to the British monarch - another big no for them), sit in parliament or vote.
They only sit in parliaments that they recognise as having legitimacy within Ireland - that means the Dáil (and local councils) in Ireland, and Stormont (and local councils) in Northern Ireland, plus the European Parliament. It took them decades to accept the legitimacy of the Dáil and the initial attempt by some members to make the party accept this resulted in the party splitting. It took even more decades for them to take their seats in Stormont, and required a full restructuring of Northern Ireland's entire political system before they would do so.
I'm not clear on this yet after reading through the news today, does the arrangements for NI under the deal still apply in the event of a FTA? Or will they be superseded by a FTA?
In other words is it a new backstop or a permanent arrangement?
I was reading this article from the guardian and I'm not sure after seeing this quote
In other words is it a new backstop or a permanent arrangement?
I was reading this article from the guardian and I'm not sure after seeing this quote
Trade talks are going to be the real PITA.
Barnier won't be there anymore to shield the negotiations from individual states through delegation. They may not be a 24/7 psychodrama like Brexit, but it's going to be a real shitshow. Fishing rights, agriculture, rules of origin. The ride never ends.
Barnier won't be there anymore to shield the negotiations from individual states through delegation. They may not be a 24/7 psychodrama like Brexit, but it's going to be a real shitshow. Fishing rights, agriculture, rules of origin. The ride never ends.
Thank you for your thoughtful answer. Let me start by saying I'm a catalan separatist, so I'm always on your (and the SNP's) side.
It's my (limited) understanding that this deal going through could bring a second scottish referendum closer, an also bring NI closer to Ireland (if ever so slightly, and going by the DUP stance). Would that be a fair assessment or I'm missing the point totally?
the substance of the deal doesn't matter? Like they could have a deal that was literally the same as Bi deal and they'd have voted for it?
No. All the red lines of the EU are intact, but it is to be said, the EU was always very flexible. The only thing they redlined on: keeping the four freedoms intact, the GFA and the divorce bill.
A FTA with the EU won't supersede the arrangements in this new protocol (although it may make some of them unnecessary in practice). The arrangements continue until NI votes itself out of them.
#sadface
They really can't be that stupid can they? What do they think happens to those laws when Bojo gets a majority?
Fucking clowns. All the care about is cover to vote for the deal. They might as well join the Brexit party at this point.
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A chara, comrade~! You guys deserve a referendum as a matter of basic human decency, to be as free as you rightly deserve.. Honestly? Though there are caveats, I think Brexit has been a huge boon for Irish and Scottish nationalists in that the possibility of Scotland leaving the UK and Ireland being united once more is higher than ever. In the case of the occupied six counties, tangible laws are pushing us closer to Dublin and further from Westminster, which is good because I have no desire of experiencing the English British Empire Weeaboo Insurgency any longer.
By contrast, Scotland is probably not having no immediate referendum without another election. However, public opinion seems to be turning in favour of Scottish Independence at a rapid rate. However, I'm sure someone more versed in Scottish politics could confirm or deny that, but I don't think I'm wrong.
Obviously, the caveats are there in both instances because we're starting to hit an unprecedented unknown period which never should have even happened in the first place, so yanno, everything"s gotta be taken with a grain of salt. But the nationalist movements of Scotland and Ireland seem to be getting turbocharged by English hubris, which is very fitting and not at all unwelcome.
Seriously, they'll go down as the greatest useful idiots in modern British history.
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