[Bloomberg] Google’s Stadia Problem? A Video Game Unit That’s Not Googley Enough

[werezompire]

Now then, I see you here commenting on all this and stuff, but are you ever going to tell us how much Google paid yo

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I believe that's under NDA. We were pleased with the arrangement or we wouldn't have put Cthulhu Saves Christmas on Stadia, but I can't get into specifics.

I can say that we've had people tell us online that they found the game through Stadia and had a lot of fun playing it so it was great to be able to reach people that had missed the game on other platforms. This thread really put a smile on my face:
First successful gaming together session. My daughter loves it. So happy:) Thank you "Cthulhu saves Christmas" crew!!! : Stadia (reddit.com)

 

[Billfisto]

I dont say stadia hasnt issues. I mean the platform is perfect in terms of "hardware". Its by far the best cloud that there is. But than you have those games.... there were about 400 already in the running? On the other side you have ps5 that has huge stock issues. Its also the first console were most games will still be crossgen for a longer term than we ever have seen. I'm not saying thay stadia will get a boost soon, but in my imo, it will grow more and more. But those who are deciding which game should be ported are not on the right place. Who choose rdr2 over gta5 anyway when it comes to reaching most people. Again more and more on reddit comments about switching to stadia becausre skipping ps5... (multiple reasons)

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(citation needed)

 

[HaremKing]

Google REALLY didn't know what they were doing. Holy shit...

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That was evident in their very first presentation. Having a guy get up and be all like "So I don't play any games but I'm going to talk to you about Stadia" is just not a good look.

 

[404LinkNotFound]

I dont say stadia hasnt issues. I mean the platform is perfect in terms of "hardware". Its by far the best cloud that there is. But than you have those games.... there were about 400 already in the running? On the other side you have ps5 that has huge stock issues. Its also the first console were most games will still be crossgen for a longer term than we ever have seen. I'm not saying thay stadia will get a boost soon, but in my imo, it will grow more and more. But those who are deciding which game should be ported are not on the right place. Who choose rdr2 over gta5 anyway when it comes to reaching most people. Again more and more on reddit comments about switching to stadia becausre skipping ps5... (multiple reasons)

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I dont have any dog in this race but.... your using reddit as a way to gauge interest in something?

 

[Guerrilla]

And to think like a year ago everyone including me was afraid of the prospect of google and amazon entering the gaming space. Lol. MS has all the time in the world now to firmly establish themselves as the Netflix of gaming, I can only imagine how happy the meetings at xbox must've been the last couple of months

 

[toy_brain]

I believe that's under NDA. We were pleased with the arrangement or we wouldn't have put Cthulhu Saves Christmas on Stadia, but I can't get into specifics.

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Yea I kinda figured, I also accidentally smashed the post button way too early, edited my post, but you were TOO DAMN FAST CURSE YOU!
\Shakes fist.

 

[ThatMeanScene]

No wonder Ubisoft was in.

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Dammmmmnnn. Thanks for helping out Bungie with Destiny I guess.

 

[kurt]

I dont have any dog in this race but.... your using reddit as a way to gauge interest in something?

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Not only reddit, thats just one source? people that bought stadia for cyberpunk is already a known thing.

 

[IIFloodyII]

God if it's 10s of millions just for ports, imagine what actual timed exclusivity will cost them, which is pretty much their only option now if they flip-flop again and wanna push Stadia.
I really do feel for the devs who got thrown about and wasted years, especially as they got some real talent too.

 

[Alucrid]

Yet more and more are stepping over stadia instead, waiting on investing in ps5

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Google writing a $10 million check for SamSho would be a no-brainer for SNK.

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Might have been more since it wasn't just for a port, it was to keep it off PC as well.

 

[criteriondog]

I dont say stadia hasnt issues. I mean the platform is perfect in terms of "hardware". Its by far the best cloud that there is. But than you have those games.... there were about 400 already in the running? On the other side you have ps5 that has huge stock issues. Its also the first console were most games will still be crossgen for a longer term than we ever have seen. I'm not saying thay stadia will get a boost soon, but in my imo, it will grow more and more. But those who are deciding which game should be ported are not on the right place. Who choose rdr2 over gta5 anyway when it comes to reaching most people. Again more and more on reddit comments about switching to stadia becausre skipping ps5... (multiple reasons)

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You do realize that the PS5 having stock issues is because of extreme demand and a silicon shortage?

Stadia is estimated to have around 400 games coming? Through this year or through the next two or three? Regardless, the PS5 and Xbox Series X have hundreds of gaming coming too within the year. I don't get your point.

And are you really trying to make a point using comments and posts from Reddit of people saying their switching to Stadia from PS/Xbox from the Stadia subreddit?

 

[monketron]

Makes you wonder how much of the current games market is getting propped up solely on Google / Amazon and Fortnite money.

 

[Billfisto]

Not only reddit, thats just one source? people that bought stadia for cyberpunk is already a known thing.

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"I saw a few people on Reddit say they're trying Stadia because they haven't been able to buy a PS5 yet" doesn't mean "People are giving up on PS5 forever in droves and moving to Stadia with the intent to make it their main platform" or whatever weird thing you're trying to twist it into. Especially since the whole "Google's not even going to bother making games for it" development.

 

[giapel]

For the majority of people, streaming means a huge library for a subscription fee. Not a small library, full price AND a subscription. That's all there is.

 

[Deleted member 90924]

Ultimately, Stadia was never going to work as a concept. They wanted to be in on the software side of things, but needed to pay put the ass to get developers to even port to the device. Its business model made no sense. I think most people who wanted to play the games they have are already invested in the console or PC markets. If they really wanted to get in the space they'd buy up a few big publishers and release a home console with a model similar to XBOX and Gamepass. Which would have been extremely expensive and still unlikely to break into the space given how mature the console market already is. Instead, they half ass it with an inferior product.

Even for people who want to game on mobile or casually on their smart TV, where Xcloud is going makes a lot more sense with that model. And given Gamepass' trajectory, Google should have predicted that.

Just bad business all-around. Everyone knew it was likely gonna be a failure, so I'm sure they did too. Prolly thought low investment, low chance of high returns was better than very high investment, moderate chance of high returns.

 

[Deleted member 90924]

The take of Schreier and others that puts this on marketing is goofy to me. The marketing may not have been good, but the product and business model are awful.

 

[DonnieTC]

The take of Schreier and others that puts this on marketing is goofy to me. The marketing may not have been good, but the product and business model are awful.

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The actual product/tech I would say is ace. From my experience definitely the best streaming platform technology wise.

 

[werezompire]

For the majority of people, streaming means a huge library for a subscription fee. Not a small library, full price AND a subscription. That's all there is.

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Just wanted to mention that there's a subscription service (Stadia Pro) that gives you games that you don't need to buy separately. Right now, there are 28 games you can redeem if you're a member (and they stay redeemed on your account as long as your subscription lasts, even if they take the game off the subscription later). I also believe there are a couple of freemium games on the service.

 

[Dekuman]

Holy shit at the money the paid for the ports

 

[Pryme]

I'm not sure what people think the alternative was.

Stadia had two key market opportunities:

1. Games that were technically impossible elsewhere.
2. Enabling non-gamers to selectively play AAA games without needing to go out and buy a console. (Think the older adult who hears the hype about GTA VI and would like it check it out but certainly isn't going to spend $400 on a new console plus the game.)

For #1 I think they hadn't really figured that out yet. For #2, the big test for this was supposed to be Cyberpunk and I think it massively underperformed versus their expectations and indicated to them that this wasn't the market opportunity they thought it might be. (And they gave that thing every opportunity for success that they could. Basically giving away a Chromecast Ultra and Stadia controller with copies of Cyberpunk was them pulling out all the stops.)

The paying for ports thing is just what it is. Like with MS' acquisition of Bethesda, those are investments in your platform and not transactions that are necessarily going to make sense from a dollars-and-cents perspective when viewed in isolation. Stadia needed to build some semblance of a library with attractive, top-tier games. So they overpaid in order to create that library. I don't see it as guffaw-inducing as Jason / others seem to think it is.

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Amazon figured out the alternative. Build your platform on Windows so no port costs ensue and you've got a shot at a much bigger game library.

The big test should never have been Cyberpunk alone. A Windows based platform could easily have seen FIFA, NBA 2K, Madden, COD etc land on Stadia day 1.

but alas.

 

[Hailinel]

The take of Schreier and others that puts this on marketing is goofy to me. The marketing may not have been good, but the product and business model are awful.

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Decent marketing can at least make an awful product look palatable. But Stadia's marketing was from the minds of people that don't understand what it is about video games that appeals to people. There was a period of time where YouTube would routinely queue up Stadia ads on videos for me where the content either focused on years-old games people are playing on numerous other platforms already, or just some bizarre fever-dream ad that focused entirely on the fact that Stadia "doesn't need a box". Hell, there were five-second cuts of this ad I've seen in which the only thing stated is that Stadia doesn't need a box.

The advertising Google had for Stadia wasn't just awful, it at best painted Stadia as redundant and at worst said nothing of substance in any way whatsoever.

 

[Alienous]

I wonder with those port agreements if the game publishers were still getting a cut of each sale.

Red Dead Redemption 2, Marvel's Avengers and Cyberpunk 2077 had to be agreements totalling $100-$150 million. Just to have the game for sale on their store.

 

[Hieroph]

Stadia was a joke from the moment they announced it was streaming only. How can you misread the market that bad?

 

[henlo_birb]

Google keeping subpar AAA in business.

 

[pswii60]

A British video game industry veteran, Harrison was a prominent face at both PlayStation and Xbox during their worst console launches

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Not a fan of Harrison but this is pretty harsh. He was also a prominent face during the PSX and PS2 glory days too. And he was a small (and late) cog in the machine with regards to XBO strategy.

That said, the reason I'm not a fan is because he always has a habit of talking big picture ideas but when it comes to the details, he falls apart and descends in marketing buzzwords. He also ruined Lair by forcing unnecessary motion controls in there despite Factor 5's reluctance. And when the SixAxis launched without rumble, Phil called it a "last gen feature" which is somewhat amusing now given the direction Sony went in with the DualSense.

 

[kurt]

"I saw a few people on Reddit say they're trying Stadia because they haven't been able to buy a PS5 yet" doesn't mean "People are giving up on PS5 forever in droves and moving to Stadia with the intent to make it their main platform" or whatever weird thing you're trying to twist it into. Especially since the whole "Google's not even going to bother making games for it" development.

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Ok but what about this topic?

 

[RoaminRonin]

I dont say stadia hasnt issues. I mean the platform is perfect in terms of "hardware". Its by far the best cloud that there is. But than you have those games.... there were about 400 already in the running? On the other side you have ps5 that has huge stock issues. Its also the first console were most games will still be crossgen for a longer term than we ever have seen. I'm not saying thay stadia will get a boost soon, but in my imo, it will grow more and more. But those who are deciding which game should be ported are not on the right place. Who choose rdr2 over gta5 anyway when it comes to reaching most people. Again more and more on reddit comments about switching to stadia becausre skipping ps5... (multiple reasons)

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Not even the hardcore fans over on /r/stadia is this delusional.

 

[kmfdmpig]

That's why you pay people to make games BEFORE you launch.

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Of course, but Google isn't the kind of company to show that much patience or foresight. The decision makers in 2019 and 2020 knew they were launching before 2023 and at that point their options were limited.

 

[kurt]

You do realize that the PS5 having stock issues is because of extreme demand and a silicon shortage?

Stadia is estimated to have around 400 games coming? Through this year or through the next two or three? Regardless, the PS5 and Xbox Series X have hundreds of gaming coming too within the year. I don't get your point.

And are you really trying to make a point using comments and posts from Reddit of people saying their switching to Stadia from PS/Xbox from the Stadia subreddit?

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Not saying they all run over to stadia. I mean with that that stadia is growing more and more. Ps5 stock issues because of demand? Ok but even the wii u did sell more. I know that ps5 would sell much more if there was enough stock, but i dont see this solved soon. Another reason to switch to stadia.

 

[Dr. Ludwig]

Publishers made out like bandits LOL

 

[Calabi]

It really is annoying and tragic to me that they spent millions just getting established games from Ubisoft and Rockstar. Capitalism is just consuming itself now, if we just buy and rent shit from the past we can make billions why make anything new if that's all it takes.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Ok but what about this topic?

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...the topic of Google completely botching Stadia and wasting millions and millions of dollars?

 

[Deleted member 90924]

The actual product/tech I would say is ace. From my experience definitely the best streaming platform technology wise.

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Streaming tech was great, even the AC Odyssey trial impressed me. The fact the product worked does not make it good, but it was a bad product and a bad business model for the reasons I stated. Very few people are going to pay $60 to play a title they can buy for $20 on a console they already own.

Decent marketing can at least make an awful product look palatable. But Stadia's marketing was from the minds of people that don't understand what it is about video games that appeals to people. There was a period of time where YouTube would routinely queue up Stadia ads on videos for me where the content either focused on years-old games people are playing on numerous other platforms already, or just some bizarre fever-dream ad that focused entirely on the fact that Stadia "doesn't need a box". Hell, there were five-second cuts of this ad I've seen in which the only thing stated is that Stadia doesn't need a box.

The advertising Google had for Stadia wasn't just awful, it at best painted Stadia as redundant and at worst said nothing of substance in any way whatsoever.

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Noted and fair point, it wasn't just bad marketing but atrocious. I just meant the focus on the marketing disguises the real issue, that the underlying product was bad and the business model made no sense. That is not what you're saying, but Schreier said in his tweet it could have been successful with better marketing. I disagree. I just don't think there is a big market for what they're selling. And what market there is, is going to choose Xcloud over Stadia.

 

[Samiya]

the overpriced PlayStation 3 and badly managed Xbox One. He joined Google in 2018 as vice president of Stadia.

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This sentence made me laugh out loud. What a track record!

 

[Alienous]

The take of Schreier and others that puts this on marketing is goofy to me. The marketing may not have been good, but the product and business model are awful.

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The product is good, the platform is terrible.

I would say marketing was a big issue. They just didn't leverage their strengths.

They could have had bi-monthly 'Stadia Directs' where at the end you play a demo for an upcoming release. That's technically feasible within the constraints of the platform.

In its beta form Luna, Amazon's cloud gaming platform, had Twitch integration.

When it came for Stadia (later) it took the form of an opt-in link buried in YouTube description boxes. Maybe they were worried about antitrust consequences - but all the same they didn't leverage their position.

Even with the platform as mediocre as it is I think Stadia could have had moderate success with good marketing.

Edit: Hadn't seen the other similar responses to your post, and your response. Nevermind.

 

[RoaminRonin]

Imagine paying tens of millions for ports and still not getting patches at the same time as the other platforms. Phil Harrison truly a genius gaming executive.

 

[Fabtacular]

Amazon figured out the alternative. Build your platform on Windows so no port costs ensue and you've got a shot at a much bigger game library.

The big test should never have been Cyberpunk alone. A Windows based platform could easily have seen FIFA, NBA 2K, Madden, COD etc land on Stadia day 1.

but alas.

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Understand what you're saying, but wanted to expand a bit more on the Cyberpunk comment.

With services like these, a solid library is what keeps people around but you need tentpole titles that act as the proverbial milkshake that brings the boys to the yard in order to grow it. It's why I've always felt like it would be worth it for MS to shell out $1B to bring GTA VI to Gamepass/Xcloud day 1. Consider how many new subs they'd attract with people on mobile wanting to try out GTA for just $15? They'd add 20m subscribers that month, easy, I think. (It would, by itself, be a money loser on the order of hundreds of millions of dollars. But I think the long-term benefits of the mindshare and people you retain in the system or who go buy an Xbox because they're exposed to how many great games are in the service, that would make it worthwhile.)

And that's the thing with Cyberpunk. If it had been everything it was hyped up to be (and it was definitely the game where my friends who don't play games were like "what's up with this Cyberpunk?") it had the potential to be the thing that created explosive growth in Stadia. It just didn't happen.

 

[IIFloodyII]

Not saying they all run over to stadia. I mean with that that stadia is growing more and more. Ps5 stock issues because of demand? Ok but even the wii u did sell more. I know that ps5 would sell much more if there was enough stock, but i dont see this solved soon. Another reason to switch to stadia.

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You are aware the PS5 had the biggest launch of any console ever right? It heavily supply constrained due to many different circumstances, but the deman has literally never been higher.

 

[Remark]

Should of had local hardware it would of been a little bit better received.

Cloud ain't there yet to be the only way to play games. Thats even with the tech behind Stadia being pretty good.

 

[criteriondog]

Not saying they all run over to stadia. I mean with that that stadia is growing more and more. Ps5 stock issues because of demand? Ok but even the wii u did sell more. I know that ps5 would sell much more if there was enough stock, but i dont see this solved soon. Another reason to switch to stadia.

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Holy shit, the Wii U did not do better than the PS5. The PS5 broke sales launch records. The Wii U made a little over a third of what the PS5 made in sales three months in it's lifetime.

PS5 sells 4.5 million units.
Wii U sold 13.56 million units in it's life.

 

[NinjaScooter]

At this point, I think the only way this would have worked, in this market, and with this audience, would have been purely subscription. It's really the only way I think you can convince this audience that giving up actual ownership of games is possibly outweighed by value and convenience. Charge people a reasonable monthly fee but still giving them access to stuff like Cyberpunk and Asscreed and a lot of the latest AAA games at no additional cost. Asking people to pay $50-60 for a "copy" of a game that they can only really stream and only really use in this unproven platform was just way too much to ask from people, especially when we are taking about a consumer base that probably has some other way of playing those types of games already.

 

[IIFloodyII]

Should of had local hardware it would of been a little bit better received.

Cloud ain't there yet to be the only way to play games. Thats even with the tech behind Stadia being pretty good.

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If developing software was too expensive, they'd full shit their pants at the cost of building a hardware platform that could run the games they were after.

 

[pswii60]

Google?

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Since SV, when I think of Google I just think of Hooli. And laugh at the thought of anyone working there.

 

[RoaminRonin]

Now we know why Tomb Raider was full price at Stadia's launch when the game was already 3 years old at that point.

 

[Remark]

If developing software was too expensive, they'd full shit their pants at the cost of building a hardware platform that could run the games they were after.

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Thats true.

Either way Google was in over their heads trying to do this imo.

 

[5taquitos]

No wonder Ubisoft was in.

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Just throw a couple unpaid interns on the port and you've made your investors very happy.

 

[Deleted member 4494]

Been on Stadia since day 1, as a Founder, and I'm done. Cancelling my account and moving on -- if they can't be bothered to double-down and invest in their thing, why in the world should I?

 

[Dave.]

I wonder how much Bungie got. Destiny was the headline game for the launch.

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Well, they seem to have found a bag of sufficient size to remodel their offices to double capacity in the US, and create a new branch in the heart of Amsterdam...

 

[Billfisto]

Ok but what about this topic?

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What are you even talking about?

Not saying they all run over to stadia. I mean with that that stadia is growing more and more. Ps5 stock issues because of demand? Ok but even the wii u did sell more. I know that ps5 would sell much more if there was enough stock, but i dont see this solved soon. Another reason to switch to stadia.

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You literally said that people were specifically moving from the intent to purchase a PS5 to purchase stuff on Stadia instead:

Yet more and more are stepping over to stadia instead/waitiing of investing in ps5

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That's not a general "Stadia is growing" (which is dubious already), that's "people are (doing stadia) instead of (ps5)".

What does "another reason to switch to stadia" even mean? If your position was "some people may be playing games on Stadia as a stopgap measure until PS5 stock levels make one obtainable", yeah, that'd make sense. Phrasing it as a binary choice and pretending people won't just buy a PS5 and abandon the Stadia when supply catches up is just asinine. Especially when Stadia's horizon doesn't look that spectacular right now.