You're literally in a thread about how Crypto is using as much energy as one of the most populous countries on the planet. It's less comparing 400lbs to 600 as it is to compare 400lbs to the weight of a mountain.
Bitcoin to use electricity as much as entire Pakistan for crypto mining in 2021
- Thread starter Poetic Injustice
- Start date
Crypto isnt. BTC and PoW do while btc makes up 40% of crypto. So again, differentiate.
Yes, Crypto and The Stock Market both are ways for the rich to get even richer.
Well seems
Others here who support the stock market but not crypto are part of the scam.
So anyone who invests in the stock market is rich?
One of worst allocation of resources in human history. A literal digital ponzi scheme.
Not everyone who invests in either are rich but both markets are for the benefit of the richest people who'll make the most money with minimal risk. I also think the stock market should be dismantled but that's neither here nor there.
So your argument is to create another pyramid scheme because there's already an established pyramid scheme screwing people over?
So you're against the rich making more money. How do you define rich?
So another who thinks the stock market is a scam, interesting.
You do realize you're hella sounding like this right
I mean, you can think whatever you want. I'm curious to see how many here see the stock market as a pyramid scheme. It's been educational.
Only people who lost their retirement are those who sold or had a risk profile terribly misaligned with their age and investment horizon.
Those who held or had a reasonable risk profile (I.e, the vast majority of people) made it all back and the some before long.
It is fair to say that the game is rigged based on proximity servers alone and all the fuckery that went down after the whole WSB debacle last summer.
Many who were planning on retirement literally couldnt and many ended up having to get retail jobs to make a paycheck in their 60s or even 70s. Risk profile or not, they lost everything in the stock market, the same market many here also via as a pyramid scheme.
Maybe if you try to day trade. If you simply hold the S&P500 and never think about your investments but to reallocate from equities to bonds as you near reach retirement age (and there are funds that will do this automatically for you), it is very hard to lose.
I believe Vanguard has published research that some of their best performing accounts were held by people who had died and so never had a chance to sell.
The stock market has been around for over a hundred years. In that time, it has yielded positive returns in >90% of all 5-year time periods.
In contrast, crypto has been around for some 11 odd years.
I feel like I need to clear something up, me and most people in this thread aren't anti Crypto because we love the stock market. Infact a lot of us hate it for the same reason: we're sick of people dying and the world warming due to unrestricted capitalism.
So why have ice makers? Why have AV receivers? Why have exterior lighting? Why have swimming pools? Etc.Because it's another source of power drain that serves "no purpose" or isn't entirely necessary. It's an interesting comparison and I was curious. So I looked.
The Big Surprise in Home Energy Consumption: Gaming PCs
The typical gaming computer consumes as much power each year as approximately three refrigerators, according to a study from Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. The comparison is one of the many eye-opening statistics in a paper written by Nathaniel and Evan Mills on the impact of...www.forbes.com
According to this article (from 2015) gaming PCs take an estimated 75 TWh per year. As a PC gamer myself, I can tell you that GPUs and CPUs have only increased in power demand in the past 6 years. That figure is definitely higher, now.
The article in the OP states Bitcoin will take 91TWh in 2021.
So, why wouldn't they be mentioned?
The point is remotely comparing these items to farming Bitcoin is absurd. We all know it.
I didnt think you love the market. How do you define rich?
Bitcoin isn't going against traditional banking/cash use.
Virtually all investment in bitcoin comes from people who don't plan to actually purchase anything with Bitcoin.
You are confused. If they were near retirement age and had a reasonable risk profile, then long before the market crashed they would have reallocated the vast majority of their money to bonds, which is literally not the stock market.
It fucking absolutely is. You are building a digital infrastructure for a capability that is extremely overvalued because it is a solution in need of a problem. The people who make out the most were the ones vested early on. All for a system of "secure, decentralized digital currency" that is actually an environmental disaster of a speculative investment vehicle.
Come on...Articulate the grand value proposition for mankind bestowed unto us by crypto currency and its massively energy and hardware resource inefficient infrastructure . The amazing problems it's solving ranging from mitigating global warming to sustainable design/manufacture/agriculture/energy/etc. It's ending the pandemic right?
No to all those things. Right. Because it's a bunch of useless, self-perpetuating bullshit.
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I literally said risk profile or not. I worked in financial planning for a few years. I am well aware of risk profiles, and also that there were people irreparably damaged by the crash REGARDLESS of risk profile. Point being, these folks have nothing to show for their years in the market
That makes zero sense. How would someone who had 90%-100% of their nest egg invested in bonds be ruined by a stock market crash?
Some people don't drink icy drinks and don't see the use for ice makers. They could argue that our wasteful ice machines are a drain on the resources of the world.
Some of y'all clearly don't fuck with crypto. It doesn't mean it doesn't have value to us who do and that it doesn't provide value to the world.
So, yes, it's absurd to be comparing all these things to one another. It's all subjective.
The stock market compared to digital Chuck E Cheese tokens.
Look at the stuff around you. Most all of it tracks back to companies traded on the stock market.
The scam is 40% of Americans aren't part of it so it is mostly a piggy back for the ultra rich.
Look at the stuff around you. Most all of it tracks back to companies traded on the stock market.
The scam is 40% of Americans aren't part of it so it is mostly a piggy back for the ultra rich.
"I got mine so it has value" is not a compelling argument to make for cypto.
That isn't my argument and anyone can still invest and make money. Do you think I was rich when I invested? I come from nothing.
Again, not for you.
I come from a country where the lack of currency forces people into making pretty much anything exchangeable. Crypto just makes everything easier.
In this country i speak of, normal everyday people, government, dictators and institutions turned to crypto, food, clothes, and pretty much everything else in between when in need to pay and receive payments. The government owes you money? Here's a bike and shut up. You owe money to a neighbor? Calculate how many bags of rice he'd get with that amount and ask to get paid in rice so you can pay your neighbor back.
I know you probably won't fully understand (much like i am now finding it difficult to understand that people can pay with cash and get cash back) and that's fine. Different realities. That's all.
:)
This is what really gets me.
It's blatant speculation. It has always been. It's just another form of throwing money into something and hoping that some sucker will buy it because they're looking for another sucker.
I'm not fucking blind. When people tell me they're "getting into bitcoin", it's not because of its value as a currency. It's because they want to get rich riding the wave.
I can sympathize with this argument, but crypto is objectively too volatile to be a reasonable store of value.
There is a reason most crypto advocates have stopped pretending it's a store of value and have simply embraced it as a speculative asset. If you got to the CryptoEra thread, speculation is literally the only thing you will see.
It relies on people investing so your initial investment increases value. It has no intrinsic value. It's not labor. It's not a metal that can be made into anything. It's not energy. It's not software that does something. It's a thing that was imagined to be traded for a real currency.
It's the literal definition of a pyramid scheme.
This is a disingenuous and factually incorrect way to describe how Bitcoin works.
It's not multi level marketing nor is it a pyramid scheme.
Thicker air is better for wind farms but I'm pretty sure it would still work at altitude.
Exactly. It's fucking speculative horse-betting bullshit. We need more people to man the fuck up and say exactly what it is.
We ain't fucking stupid.
A pyramid scheme? Eh, not really. You may as well chalk everything from a corner store to the stock market as a pyramid scheme, then. A pyramid scheme involves someone actually scheming. Playing a system like a fiddle makes it impressionable and rife with abuse.
It kind of is. People were baited into investing in the underlying hardware infrastructure early on by the system providing large returns for them being baked into its operating logic. As more and more people were enticed to get rich quick and add further and further to that underlying infrastructure, what they can now possibly earn as time goes on and the infrastructure is further and further developed is an increasingly smaller and smaller piece of the pie for increasingly large amounts of "digital work". Just because you programmatically bake the ponzi scheme in, doesn't mean it's not there.
Again, were not fucking stupid here. You are more often than not talking to people who are technologically literate on this forum.
If you like to invest for speculation's sake, that's great. We are debating the usefulness of the overall technology and business paradigm it proposes.
Maybe it's not literally a pyramid scheme, but it's a pretty clear-cut example of the greater fool theory.
At its most basic level, the stock market is anchored to something very real and concrete: the productive power of the American worker. People. People making things or offering goods and services that others are willing to pay money for.
Crypto is anchored to nothing except sentiment.
And none of that was hidden or came to anyone as a surprise. It's how demand is created in the system. Bitcoin is finite and it will become harder to mine as time goes on.
You are explaining to me how bitcoin works. We all understand how it works. It is its overall lack of value to humanity as a whole that we are actually discussing... not it's arbitrarily devised rules of operation.
The business value generated is practically null... It's actually negative when considering the negative externalities associated with its global warming contributing massive energy consumption and the fact that hardware resources could have been used for science, math, and engineering simulations and problem solving to help solve the world's actual issues... Like accelerating the development of a sustainable energy paradigm and supporting infrastructure of distribution and storage for said energy.
At this higher level of discussion, you're not going to make a good case for the existence of cryptocurrency. It's just not adding much to the general well being or standard of living for the average person (or the continued health of our shared habitat).
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This is 100% true. However, the people I speak of know absolutely nothing about markets or assets or anything like that. Most of them just know that a certain amount will get you food for a day while other days you can get a dessert because the crypto has gone up.
They're not mining or doing anything outrageous, they're just trying to get enough to feed themselves and their families