Best selling author Sarah Dessen sends twitter followers after a college student for not liking her books
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k. Im sure you have taken every criticism of the things you create with a grain of salt. Shit hurts sometimes and its hard to tell when it will hurt more and when it doesnt matter.
I read that comment and thought it was rough, but if it was an offhanded comment by some random freshmen know nothing the paper quoting it is lame for publishing inflammatory rhetoric about YA when they themselves rewarded fucking Ready Player One of all books.
the books are chosen by a self appointed committee. if the makeup of said self appointed committee changes i'm not sure why what they've done in the past matters.
ok but the people who chose ready player one and the people who didn't choose a dessen book...might not be the same people?
I started to write a long ass point, but I just can't... Shit is right in front of you, and you just choose not to acknowledge it. Lot of "I don't see color" posts in this thread...
that's really the funniest part of all this
the idea that it requires internalized misogyny for a young woman to arrive at the conclusion "teen me might have enjoyed this, but at this point, I find it unworthy of a college reading list" is obviously wrong, and you'd think these authors would be more empathetic to such a headspace
like, is there anything more late teens/early 20s than developing a rigid sense of worthiness, turning your back on things you'd have enjoyed when you were younger, and latching onto more overtly "mature" works?
maybe it's just me, but the barely implicit notion that shitting on YA fiction makes one a bad feminist at best and a self-hating woman at worst seems kinda self-serving
clearly you aren't brain dead, feel free to scroll through the thread if you're curious what the issue is
Some people aren't willing to understand power and racial dynamics, it's tiresome trying to beat it into people that this is a thing.
Yes, that is indeed what is being said in this thread.
You've cracked the case, chief.
huh? where did I say "I don't see color"? feel free to explain how race is integral to this. As far as I know both the author and the student are white, which is all I meant.
I said that I thought that it wasn't in issue in this case, not that it is never an issue.
Again I can't access her whole conversation but the context infers she's using a specific example from her own experience rather than singling out an author. She probably didn't think for a second that she was saying anything controversial or rude. If I jumped in a thread about a Michael Bay movie and said mean things about its acceptance for consideration at Cannes it wouldn't be a big deal - if I thought Michael Bay was reading and responding in that thread - I wouldn't do it.
And if I'm reading correctly this happened three years ago!
What's the statute of limitations on saying something mildly critical about the selection of literature for a school course?
Edit. On race: as a social media "figure" with a fraction of the author's following I am well aware of the common explosion of racism, sexism and vitriol from my tweet threads - and I'd never activate a brigade on my behalf no matter what - but if I did I'm self aware enough to know that those few bad actors would absolutely home in on difference as an attack vector - in that sense it's akin to siccing people on a more vulnerable target.
So it's definitely a consideration but I have no way of knowing if the author was even aware of her race - although she'd certainly be aware of her age and gender - which should be considerations too.
It's also fair to give benefit of the doubt that the author made a mistake and responded in the moment (albeit years after publishing) and didn't understand the forces she loosed.
I doubt she wanted this outcome for herself or her "target"
All the more reason to draft rather than fire off tweets you're not sure about. By all means write I'm the heat of reaction but let it sit in drafts to cool for a bit - like a pie on a window ledge.
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We have no idea what each and every member of this committee thinks about YA books, therefore it seems to make sense to look at what past committees have thought regarding YA. That seems to make more sense than simply expanding what this one person on the committee thought about Sarah and assuming that holds true for all of YA and then assuming that all or most of the committee feel exactly the same as this one person.
Is she also petty and so sensitive to have a single college student not liking her work ruins her day in person too?
Wait link me to where she herself endorsed RP1. The committee did in previous years.
She, an accomplished author with considerable clout, sicced her considerably larger following against a college student who had the audacity to "criticize" her work. It would not be acceptable for me to name and shame ANY of the students that criticize me on Era, since it would be a gross violation of ethics.
EDIT: I stand corrected on Nelson's race. The rest of my statement stands.
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Yeah that comparison is fucking nuts. Also, the comments were published over three years ago, so the student would have been a teenager at the time.
that makes no sense since we already know the committee's personnel changes. why not judge how the committee feels based on the most obvious indicator, the book that they chose that year? unless you think this student was some sort of bookzilla that chased away all the other members of the committee from choosing one of dessen's books
My wife and I have attended several Dessen readings in the past and she has always been very warm and welcoming in person. However, she comes off as incredibly petty and it doesn't help that her fellow white female YA authors coming running to her defense. Her books are simple teenage dramas and she has acknowledged that her books are generic female empowerment stuff. To sic her audience on some random person because of a book choice they made 3 years ago is so stupid on so many levels.
The next time she visits Raleigh, I'll keep this scenario in mind. All the other questions during the Q&A are softballs anyway.
The next time she visits Raleigh, I'll keep this scenario in mind. All the other questions during the Q&A are softballs anyway.
denying Brooke Nelson the agency to dislike a YA book aimed at teen girls and instead attributing it to "internalized misogyny" is infinitely more sexist than anything Nelson actually said about Dessen's book
this is a far too common trope of this sort of liberalism, attributing any dissent from people who aren't cishet white men to internalized misogyny/racism/etc (when you aren't ignoring it entirely), rather than just accepting that not everyone is going to agree with you just because they can lay claim to [insert historically marginalized identity here]
every single one of these authors who joined the pile-on owes Nelson an apology and should take a good, long look in the mirror. won't happen, of course, because this brand of liberal feminism is far too shallow for that kind of introspection
yeah, the thing with patriarchy, white supremacy, and all that other good stuff is that they do go a long way toward making self-hate a real issue, but this is definitely an example of that being applied in the most counterproductive way imaginable
you know, with the denying her agency, the calling her a fucking a bitch, and the harassing her off of social media
mainstream feminism has problems
If there's more context which isn't exposed here, then I'd feel differently about it. The most you could say is that we should give her the benefit of the doubt. However, it's difficult when I have no indication that the additional context even exists.
In your Michael Bay example, there's a context which leads you to talk about him. When we look at the article, that's not the case here. That's the problem. I don't think people should out of context shit on other people. I think that's a dick move. Let me be clear. I don't think her being a dick is a big deal or even something we should be talking about in the grand scheme of things. I'm a dick about media all the time. I just would rather acknowledge that what she's saying, at least reads like a dick thing to say.
So many amazing books come out every year that it makes no sense to look at the one book they picked and then make a wide-reaching judgement on an entire category of books based on that.
Certainly possible, but it also wouldn't surprise me if a local fan read it, got butthurt, and forwarded it to Dessen.
I was under the impression that Nelson was a minority, so I was wrong. Still, why'd Dessen crop out the rest of the article highlighting the book Nelson suggested that was ultimately chosen over her book? Just Mercy, now a major film staring Michael B Jordan that highlights the systemic racism within the justice system, specifically Walter McMillian?
right so why bring up them picking ready player one as some sort of YA rubber stamp?
A: Because she is a vain writer that is only interested in the part that insulted her
or
B: She realised Just Mercy was actually a better choice than her own book
1. They've picked multiple YA Books not just RP1
2. In this context, there's a big difference between using a presence of something as evidence and using the absence of something as evidence. In the Absence example, you're inserting your own reason why YA books are absent.
For example: "I think that Pasta isn't up to the standard of food that you'll eat and my evidence of that is that you're not eating pasta today." is very different than "I think that Pasta is up the standard of food that you'll eat, and my evidence of that is that last week and in the week before you ate pasta on one of those days."
except it's not an absence of it. it's the result of a literal vote. some people wanted a YA dessen novel. others wanted something else. in the end just mercy won out.
No, it isn't. But keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
Even if this was a straight vote between a Dessen Novel and Just Mercy, all that would tell us is how the committee feels about these two books. Like I said, you're adding your own reason of why Just Mercy won.
"White fragility at its finest."
Completely unnecessary and obscures whatever argument people are attempting to make.
Sarah is a really great writer. She has been a strong advocate for young women and victims of
Sexual abuse as well as those that suffer eating disorders.
Have fun with your knee jerk book burning party.
I don't care about how great of a writer she may be. Her reaction to a 3 year old innocuous comment dismissing her book was ridiculous.
As well as egging on her fans, she must've known how that came off when she deleted that tweet of hers.
Also, I really don't see the relevance in listing her good actions, they don't have any bearing on what is happening here.
She got her feelings hurt and now all her buddies decided to start shitting on a random college student. Because of her actions, there is an article that put the student next to bloody Larry Nassar of all people.
She isn't the worst person in the world, clearly. She got caught pulling some bullshit and people are rightfully calling her out for it.
It is what it is.
Speaking of knee jerking..
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but what it doesn't tell us is how previous or future committees feel. so saying that "This would all make sense if other YA books hadn't been chosen in the past" is stupid because what the ready player one committee thinks and what the just mercy committee thinks are probably completely different due to them being composed of different people, with different goals, operating under different constraints. it's just adding your own reasons of why dessen lost
If it's not to late to nip this in the bud... Dessen's critic is in fact white. I'm not going to link it, but this is relatively simple Google-fu.
I understand that it's flawed, but what I'm saying, and have said, is that unless the rubric has drastically changed, what I'm doing makes more sense than simply expanding what this one person on the committee thought about Sarah and assuming that holds true for all of YA and then assuming that all or most of the committee feel exactly the same as this one person.
I don't have a problem with your argument if it's applied in all directions. I.E. we don't know what any of these committees broadly thinks about any type of book. However, that's not what's occurring.
Because she wasn't agitated about not being selected but was disgusted at being marginalized by one person. The original comment was mean spirited. I was just having a conversation yesterday with another female YA author that writes under a male pseudonym because female authors(regardless of color) are constantly marginalized in the field of YA.
Making this about being a female author and internalized misogyny is really disingenuous and gross
A college literally dismissed her book in favor of another book she felt was better. 3 years ago. She didn't marginalize shit. ONE COLLEGE student. This Dessen woman is self-aggrandizing POS.
where did i say it holds true for all YA novels? that doesn't apply to the person who didn't want dessen's book, nor the committee at large. i'm only making the distinction between what won and whatever the dessen book in question is, which just so happens to be a YA novel, not a genre at large. also where did you see that there's a rubric being used every year?
thus begging the question, how did this quote from a then-teenage college student in a small local paper get in front of her in the first place, and why does a one-line snarky comment from someone of that stature warrant being upset over to the point you think it's worthy of highlighting for hundreds of thousands of your followers?
Never heard of Sarah Dessen but this thread has tanked my opinion of her. Original comment isn't even that bad, one person doesn't think your writing reaches the level of what they think should be on the reading curriculum, you gonna drag this shit up 3 years after the fact to your public followers because your feelings got hurt?
give me a break. this is the type of shit you rant about privately to a friend.
give me a break. this is the type of shit you rant about privately to a friend.
I'm not saying that you're saying that, my original response was to someone who did say that. That's why I made that original argument.
I'm assuming that a rubric exists, because generally for most things like this, there is one.