molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
You sound ridiculous.

First, you have no idea what that posters house needs in regard to maintenance

Second, even something simple like hauling mulch or sod home could require a truck.

Stop acting like you know how others should live their lives.
You can stack just as much sod in an extended hatchback as you can in an SUV. Give me a break. I lived in Italy for over 6 years and saw exactly 0 full-sized pickup trucks while I was there. Large subdivision of single family homes where I lived, all with yards. Somehow everyone managed just fine with normal-sized vehicles that don't make cities more dangerous or clog up parking lots with their 17-point back-in maneuvers.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
7,980
Vehicles on Europe roads must look very different from North America. SUVs sell like crazy in Canada and US. Vehicle companies are discontinuing car models and adding SUV models. There's a huge variety of size, performance and luxury levels. They are never getting banned because that's what everybody wants.
 

pennanton

Member
Oct 31, 2017
615
It's tough to say they should be banned. I do think something like a light truck license should be required to own one to discourage their purchase though.

Society got on just fine with regular sized sedans for a long time. SUVs and crossovers create space, safety and environmental issues that have no reason to exist other than to make the buyer feel a little better about themselves on the road.

Its ridiculously unsafe being next to an SUV or crossover at a roundabout or intersection purely due to the fact you can't see over or through them. I have to trust that SUV that when they go there's no oncoming traffic.

Space is a non argument. Most crossovers and SUVs are as big on the inside as the sedan or hatchback they're derived from. Most medium to large sedans and wagons are bigger on the inside and it's always been that way. On the flip side crossovers and SUVs give a substantially larger car on the exterior for no real reason.
 

TJG662

Member
Oct 25, 2017
626
California
You can stack just as much sod in an extended hatchback as you can in an SUV. Give me a break. I lived in Italy for over 6 years and saw exactly 0 full-sized pickup trucks while I was there. Large subdivision of single family homes where I lived, all with yards. Somehow everyone managed just fine with normal-sized vehicles that don't make cities more dangerous or clog up parking lots with their 17-point back-in maneuvers.

Um a SUV like a Tahoe can carry way more then a hatch back. Also many suvs have more towing power then any hatch back. Also I'm sure a large subdivision in Italy is nothing compared to other parts of the world like cali and Texas for example. Man I could on imagine trying to put some large furniture in a hatchback hahah. Glad I had access to a large suv and truck when I need it.
 

Coyote Zamora

alt account
Banned
Jul 19, 2019
766
You can stack just as much sod in an extended hatchback as you can in an SUV. Give me a break. I lived in Italy for over 6 years and saw exactly 0 full-sized pickup trucks while I was there. Large subdivision of single family homes where I lived, all with yards. Somehow everyone managed just fine with normal-sized vehicles that don't make cities more dangerous or clog up parking lots with their 17-point back-in maneuvers.
You continue to sound ridiculous. We measure the size of our yards in portions of an acre here. I'm sure that if you're neighbors yards were comparable and they could in a truck; they would.
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,224
Phoenix, AZ
Even though I think crossover SUV's are mostly pointless, I don't think I'd ever want to ban them.

I do think its silly that people who just need 7 seats buy them and don't consider vans. These days crossovers are definitely less cool than vans are since everyone drives crossovers.

How else am I supposed to roll coal??

You don't need a truck to roll coal. Any vehicle with a diesel engine can roll coal. When you burn excess fuel it produces black smoke. You could do it in a vw golf diesel.
 

Wubby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,878
Japan!
Yes please ban them all and large trucks for private use as well. Bring back the actual car market to the US and mini trucks like there were in the 80's. Everything is just so massive now. I much prefer it here in Japan where the majority of cars are economic three cylinder Kei Cars that are limited in size by regulations. Also here cars are taxed yearly by engine size. My 1.5L fit has a yearly tax of 40,000 yen about $400 paid every May. Any cars with engines 6L and larger have a yearly tax of 110,000 yen (about $1100). If this was implemented in the states a new tax revenue would open up and people would be less inclined to buy these massive wasteful vehicles.
 

TJG662

Member
Oct 25, 2017
626
California
Yes please ban them all and large trucks for private use as well. Bring back the actual car market to the US and mini trucks like there were in the 80's. Everything is just so massive now. I much prefer it here in Japan where the majority of cars are economic three cylinder Kei Cars that are limited in size by regulations. Also here cars are taxed yearly by engine size. My 1.5L fit has a yearly tax of 40,000 yen about $400 paid every May. Any cars with engines 6L and larger have a yearly tax of 110,000 yen (about $1100). If this was implemented in the states a new tax revenue would open up and people would be less inclined to buy these massive wasteful vehicles.

I'm not giving up my v6 until they make electric cars look good and more normal. I'm not a fan of Tesla's and how they look. Give me my honda with the power and weight of my v6 and I'll go electric. But after reading the post in here and needing to buy my wife a new ride. I have decided we definitely getting a SUV. Got two big dogs like to go to tahoe and the mountains. And to many angry people I see so I'll protect myself.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
You continue to sound ridiculous. We measure the size of our yards in portions of an acre here. I'm sure that if you're neighbors yards were comparable and they could in a truck; they would.
I'm not taking about people who live on farms. People out there could get the licenses to have their trucks. I'm talking about civilization.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,274
I'm fine with truck/van/suv bans at city center. NYC morning or daytime traffic is horrible in midtown. Trucks turning...pedestrians crossing, its a mess.
 

Big-E

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,169
The data pretty clearly indicates that these types of vehicles in particular are a problem in urban areas with heavy pedestrian traffic. I don't think convenience is a sufficient argument to dismiss legitimate public safety concerns.

The data isn't saying what you think it is. People here are making it sound like people get hit by sedans every day and pop right back up, but if a SUV touches a pedestrian , 3 more people adjacent to the SUV are sent to the morgue.
 

nanskee

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,075
Just started driving and I don't think I'll ever get an SUV in my lifetime. Love small cars. Love my 02' accord; small and great on gas:)

I understand people using SUV for families, but I don't understand two passengers in an SUV as a daily driver, same with people who don't utilize trucks. I really don't get the craze for big cars
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,279
Yes please ban them all and large trucks for private use as well. Bring back the actual car market to the US and mini trucks like there were in the 80's. Everything is just so massive now. I much prefer it here in Japan where the majority of cars are economic three cylinder Kei Cars that are limited in size by regulations. Also here cars are taxed yearly by engine size. My 1.5L fit has a yearly tax of 40,000 yen about $400 paid every May. Any cars with engines 6L and larger have a yearly tax of 110,000 yen (about $1100). If this was implemented in the states a new tax revenue would open up and people would be less inclined to buy these massive wasteful vehicles.
That's kind of the root of the problem though, American car consumers aren't price sensitive. If given the option between a small but less expensive car and a large but expensive truck the market will choose the truck. Trucks and SUVs are far more expensive than sedans and compact cars already, between the sticker price, fuel costs, and additional licensing fees and yet they are still by far the best selling consumer vehicles with most manufacturers dropping their smallest models in favor of focusing on larger vehicles. The problem isn't the regulatory structure or costs but the culture surrounding the vehicles which is way harder to change
 

Wubby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,878
Japan!
That's kind of the root of the problem though, American car consumers aren't price sensitive. If given the option between a small but less expensive car and a large but expensive truck the market will choose the truck. Trucks and SUVs are far more expensive than sedans and compact cars already, between the sticker price, fuel costs, and additional licensing fees and yet they are still by far the best selling consumer vehicles with most manufacturers dropping their smallest models in favor of focusing on larger vehicles. The problem isn't the regulatory structure or costs but the culture surrounding the vehicles which is way harder to change

Thats's a good point. It's been more than a decade since I last lived in the US so I'm not too sure how it is there now. When GM shuttered their Hummer brand due to low sales I was hoping that the market was moving in the right direction at that time. I bet GM wishes they never closed Hummer now.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
Never heard of 4x4's but looking at pictures they seem to be Jeeps? You don't see many of them in germany. Probably could count the ones I have seen on two hands, which is why I don't see a reason to ban them.
If they are disproportionally responsible for deaths then we might have a case. Would rather want to ban cars altogether.
 

Cation

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,603
Damn I expected literally any car aside from the Macan - which is a small suv
 

Bramblebutt

Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,879
The data isn't saying what you think it is. People here are making it sound like people get hit by sedans every day and pop right back up, but if a SUV touches a pedestrian , 3 more people adjacent to the SUV are sent to the morgue.

The data says that SUVs are much more deadly in a collision with pedestrians than smaller cars. That's just reality. With the proliferation of these vehicles and the recent rise in pedestrian fatalities, I do not blame urban municipalities for pushing for restrictions on the use of these vehicles in city centers, where their constituents are the ones exposed to the most risk.
 

Daingurse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,779
Not the kind of vehicle I was expecting when I opened the thread. That thing is smaller than my Venza.
 

aliengmr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,419
At first I was like "someone has a 4x4 in Berlin?!"

Now I see Berliner's don't know what they are talking about. Pretty sure that thing is smaller than a Transit Van.

People never consider the big picture when it comes to banning shit.

Y'all realize that cities have large things that need to be moved right? Office desks don't appear out of nowhere. The people that maintain that cushy building aren't Fix it Felix with a magic hammer.

Point is, that shit happens all the time. So if you manage to ban all personal vehicles, you still have the large vehicles the city needs to function. Ban all vehicles and a city like Berlin dies without a major overhaul to the infrastructure.
 

Eugene's Axe

Member
Jan 17, 2019
3,632
Yes , and please ban these as well
Best-Gmc-Truck-Jacked-Up-Images.jpg
And how are they going to compensate for their small dick?
 

hikarutilmitt

"This guy are sick"
Member
Dec 16, 2017
11,558
I'm not taking about people who live on farms. People out there could get the licenses to have their trucks. I'm talking about civilization.
Or, I dunno, buy something they can afford and fits them? Both times I owned a truck it was paid for because I had little to no money. The times before, between, and now, I had money to get a vehicle and had to pay quite a bit to get a vehicle that I was actually comfortable in. You've no idea how hard it is to find something affordable that's not a truck that can actually be comfortable to drive when you're six and a half feet tall. It's like finding shoes or pants that fit only more of a money sink.
And how are they going to compensate for their small dick?
Not jack it up. That shit is the most ridiculous thing ever and actually does make them more dangerous for tipping, in most cases. And, no lie, I do actually get tired of trying to go around them in the parking garages downtown. If your vehicle cannot fit into your space you shouldn't be parked there, goddammit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,715
Seattle
It's tough to say they should be banned. I do think something like a light truck license should be required to own one to discourage their purchase though.

Society got on just fine with regular sized sedans for a long time. SUVs and crossovers create space, safety and environmental issues that have no reason to exist other than to make the buyer feel a little better about themselves on the road.

Its ridiculously unsafe being next to an SUV or crossover at a roundabout or intersection purely due to the fact you can't see over or through them. I have to trust that SUV that when they go there's no oncoming traffic.

Space is a non argument. Most crossovers and SUVs are as big on the inside as the sedan or hatchback they're derived from. Most medium to large sedans and wagons are bigger on the inside and it's always been that way. On the flip side crossovers and SUVs give a substantially larger car on the exterior for no real reason.

Don't know any sedans that can seat 7-8 passengers 🤔
 

Maven

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,076
Earth
Vehicles on Europe roads must look very different from North America. SUVs sell like crazy in Canada and US. Vehicle companies are discontinuing car models and adding SUV models. There's a huge variety of size, performance and luxury levels. They are never getting banned because that's what everybody wants.

Yep, I like sitting high when I drive
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
Or, I dunno, buy something they can afford and fits them? Both times I owned a truck it was paid for because I had little to no money. The times before, between, and now, I had money to get a vehicle and had to pay quite a bit to get a vehicle that I was actually comfortable in. You've no idea how hard it is to find something affordable that's not a truck that can actually be comfortable to drive when you're six and a half feet tall. It's like finding shoes or pants that fit only more of a money sink.
I'm 6'4" so I have a pretty good idea. Most cars have plenty of leg room if you put the seat back. Hell, my wife's Mini Cooper has more leg room than my Ford Focus, which is already plenty enough for me. You don't need a huge car to have a roomy driver's seat.
 

hikarutilmitt

"This guy are sick"
Member
Dec 16, 2017
11,558
I'm 6'4" so I have a pretty good idea. Most cars have plenty of leg room if you put the seat back. Hell, my wife's Mini Cooper has more leg room than my Ford Focus, which is already plenty enough for me. You don't need a huge car to have a roomy driver's seat.
You must have some stubby legs if you honestly think a focus has enough room.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
You must have some stubby legs if you honestly think a focus has enough room.
My legs are disproportionately longer than my torso and are solely responsible for my height, so I doubt that's it. With the seat fully back there is plenty of leg room. Left foot rests next to the break pedal rather than on the little step because I'm not 16 anymore and know how to drive a car while tall.

The point though was that my wife's Mini Cooper has more leg room despite being physically smaller overall.
 

vegtro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
718
I'd be ok with a SUV ban. If only because any time I'm on a bike and nearly get hit by a car, it's an expensive SUV (Merc, Acura, range Rover, BMW, Infinity etc etc etc).

By a wide margin, SUV drivers are the WORST on the streets
I was almost ran over by a bicyclist walking on the sidewalk. No sorry or nothing, just sped away.
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,113
did you mean 21 highway? or 11 city 14 highway? Non hybrid cars get better mileage on the highway
They means what they said. It's L/100km not MPG. Highway has a lower number because it's better on fuel. It measures the fuel consumption per a set distance rather than measuring the distance traveled for a set amount of fuel.

Yes. Unless you work in landscaping, on a farm, or as a mover you don't need a big lifted SUV/truck.
Pretty sure there are a few more scopes of work for a truck than that. I'm not a fan of lifts by any means but trucks of various sizes are very useful vehicles. A mover would use a cube van or bigger anyway.
 

Jindrax

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,454
Ban them country wide. 90% of people have absolutely no reason to have such a big waste of everything car.
 

Deleted member 10612

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,774
C'mon, if a Smart would crash into me the driver would probably die while I walk away.
In all seriousness, crashing a 1,500 lb or a 4,500 lb car does make a difference.
Geometry is a factor. At these massive weight differences (pedastian / car) it starts to not make a difference.

Imagine playing Pool but you actually throw a bowling bowl at the smal pool balls, the bowling ball will just "walk through them" and not even change course.

The best thing that's saving pedestrians in a car collision is lower speed. Under 30km/h and survivability raises to over 90%.
 

Subpar Scrub

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,576
Would you up for a ban SUV's on your city, Era?

Hell no. Would make no sense to ban 4x4s before banning trucks, vans etc. Plus where I live, odds are people use them for off-road driving fairly frequently or because they have a large family, so they're kinda needed.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,590
Era is a funny place. Good to know almost everyone in this thread apparently only buys vehicles that precisely fit their requirements. No waste, no frills.
 

Subpar Scrub

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,576
Era is a funny place. Good to know almost everyone in this thread apparently only buys vehicles that precisely fit their requirements. No waste, no frills.

Basically. Everyone in here saying it's a waste of space and resources probably owns a car that has a level of power or size they don't really need. Some people are just trying to squeeze out a little more superiority in a thread about people being killed in a car crash. How classy.

Banning every little thing that doesn't conform to your lifestyle is a trait in some people that is seriously concerning. It's a total disregard to the liberty of others or consideration of their needs.
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,224
Phoenix, AZ
They means what they said. It's L/100km not MPG. Highway has a lower number because it's better on fuel. It measures the fuel consumption per a set distance rather than measuring the distance traveled for a set amount of fuel.

I must be tired. I saw the 13L/100km, then for some reason thought the numbers after were in mpg. Not even sure why.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,106
Does anyone actually make them any more? They gradually disappeared once SUVs became popular and the closest thing to them now are hatchback versions of relatively small cars.

Oddly enough the only newer and reasonably sized station wagons I can think of seeing are Merc and BMW, and they're not cheap.
Skoda Octavia, VW Golf and Opel Astra are just some cars that are sold in station wagon form. And I am not exactly a car expert, there are many more I cannot name. I'd guess here on Germany at least a quarter of all cars are statio wagons.