Nov 18, 2017
1,283
All the Americans are gonna say no because they played it on a crummy game gear screen but your right OP I think it is way better. Hell I can barely make it passed marble zone on the megadrive anymore.

TBH I think I prefer 8 bit Sonic 2 over the 16 bit one as well, that hang glider level is as iconic as Green Hill zone to me!
 

TripaSeca

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,775
São Paulo
With these bosses, is it.... The dark souls of Sonic?
Lol

Seriously though, I'd never known that this game existed, so I'll definitely give it a shot.
 

Animus Vox

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,619
NYC
The Sonic 2 Chaos Emeralds were so Devilishly evil I love it

Underground Zone - Blind jumps from spring to spring with lava all around, Not bad really
Sky High Zone - Either find the hidden spring in the cloud or learn how to hang glide like a pro (I did the latter because I didn't even know that spring existed until recently)
Aqua Lake Zone - As your zipping along a blind pipe system you have a choice, Left or Right, you'd better pick correctly as you can't get back in the pipe (This came back as a Sonic Chaos Special Stage)
Green Hills Zone - A return of the blind spring jumps from Underground Zone, except this time you can go too fast and completely overshoot the platform its on and won't even realize it was there at all
Gimmick Mountain Zone - Blindly jump at a random specific wall that has no collision and no indication that you can even jump through it
Scrambled Egg Zone - Beat Silver Sonic with all 6 Emeralds, if you missed any from the previous zones you don't get it so you end up thinking it's in the previous level somewhere except it's not, good luck searching the hardest level in the game for it over and over again for no reason
To make things worse, if you didn't get the emerald you didn't save Tails.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,833
My first Sonic game was Sonic 1 for the SMS and I have a lot of nostalgia for it, and I like the game, but it's missing on eof the key elements what made Sonic standout, the MD physics.

Overall I like the MD version better, toying with those physics in Spring Yard or Star Light was a super fun experience, and Green Hill/Labyrinth Zone are still better on the 16-bit version.

It's true that the SMS version has a better final stage and ending though.


It is very, very, very likely (as in, I'm 99.99% sure of this, I'm just waiting for a specific dump to come out (which has been found) to be able to present as absolute proof) that the 8-bit Sonic 1 port is based off of a very early version of Sonic 1 for the Genesis. What is very likely to have happened is that, once Sonic Team had stopped iterating on core gameplay and level tropes (i.e. after their initial CES appearance with the non-interactive demo), they likely had a meeting with Ancient to get on the same page then didn't communicate after. Between that period where Sonic Team met with Ancient to present what they thought Sonic 1 would be, and when Sonic 1 on the Genesis ultimately released, a number of changes occured that didn't get reflected in the 8-bit port.

So when you look at the 8-bit version of Sonic 1, you are looking at pretty much a split timeline of development. Lots of things in the 8-bit Sonic 1 port resemble parts of the unseen prototypes of the 16-bit version of Sonic 1. A repost of an old topic with a little bit more info:

First - Bridge Zone contains the Yadorin badnik. We know that this badnik was originally supposed to be in Marble Zone. Similarly, Sky Base Zone contains both Bomb, and the special version of Unidus from Labryinth Zone which does not shoot it's spikes - both enemies from Star Light Zone. Now, the special stage in Sonic SMS doesn't contain any badniks, but Spring Yard Zone in Sonic MD recycles most of it's badniks save for Arma.

Second - The Special Stage in Sonic SMS is largely useless. It exists only to give continues. In Sonic MD, the special stage is there to give you chaos emeralds, but since there are emeralds in the stages in Sonic SMS, it renders the Special Stage unnecessary. Now, the Special Stage contains a lot of unique gimmicks which are similar to Spring Yard Zone - most noticeably the bumpers. These appear only in the special stages in Sonic SMS. My personal belief is that they were originally coded for spring yard zone, and reused later for unknown reasons.

Third - the art of the zones are very similar to existing zones, as are their tropes. Bridge Zone obviously is the most different, but a simple change in the palette makes the zone look a lot like Marble Zone:

marblezoneSMS.png

son1_05.gif


Bridge Zone and Marble Zone also share similar objects, such as this platform:

platform.png

platform2.png


Perhaps more obvious is the similarities between the special stage and spring yard zone:

son1_26.gif


son1_25.gif


Obviously the Special Stage features what is largely considered the defining feature of Spring Yard Zone - the bumpers. But at first glance it seems to share little else in common with the final Spring Yard Zone. The background is completely different, especially... until you compare it to sparkling zone:

sparkling2.gif


Suddenly the two zones look remarkably similar, especially the background, which features the same dark shade of blue and sparkling stars.

Lastly, we have Sky Base Zone, which borrows a lot from Star Light Zone's industrial highway motif. First, you'll notice that SLZ's yellow-and-black caution color scheme is copied a lot:

caution.png

caution2.png


That yellow-on-black design is used quite a bit in both stages. The main pattern in the level - industrial squares with lots of rebarbs sticking out, is also used in both zones:

industrial.png

industrial2.png

It's a bit harder to see because of the flashing palette in act 1 of Sky Base Zone, but the structures are incredibly similar. Even random objects in the background are similar, like these glowing lights and cones:

cones.png

cones2.png



Now, even though it's included, I've always felt that labyrinth Zone's background in Sonic SMS was similar to Labyrinth Zone's background in the Sonic beta, with lots of black and smoothly blended sections of background:

son1_13.gif


LZ-NewBG3.jpg


Fouth - Sonic sings in the ending, and the title screen is black. This is the most obvious similarity, since we know both were a staple of early versions of the game. Magazine scans have shown that early versions of Sonic MD had a title screen similar to Sonic SMS:

Sonic_The_Hedgehog_SMS_ScreenShot1j.gif

S1TitleBlack.png


and, more interesting, we know that at one point very late in development, Sonic MD had a robust sound test mode featuring a fully animated band. Concept art shows that Sonic was the singer, and we know this was removed extremely late in development to make room for the "sega" soundbyte:

220px-Sonicband.jpg

Sonic SMS's ending shows Sonic, fully animated, "singing" the end theme song. I've said many times, I believe this is the last remaining piece of that soundtest mode:
SonicSing.png


great post. Forgot to add Marble Zone track is unused inside the game.
 
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Marmoka

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,231
I didn't like the Game Gear version at all. Found it horrible. I haven't played the Master System version, is it the same of the GG?

I agree the zones in the Mega Drive/Genesis are meandering, except Green Hill and Starlight. The original Sonic 1 is a good game but not that good, if we compare it to it with all its 2D sequels.
 

~Fake

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
if you just hold right on every single spring segment in act 3, you will never miss them. Once you hit the first ramp, just don't let go of right, and you'll never, ever fail that segment.
Even if you do, you can pretty much farm lives in act 1/2 because life box respaw every time you die.
Oh, and Green Hill Zone act 1 and act 2 are the heavens of lives. Until you reach Green Hill Zone act 3 with imo are the hell.
To make things worse, if you didn't get the emerald you didn't save Tails.
Make a bit of sense at least for good/bad ending.
I like Sonic 2 for Mega Drive too, but never understand the porpouse of getting emeralds in that game besides of course leave Sonic invunerable for the most of zones. And both endings are identical. Even Sonic the Blast had a fair good/bad ending.
 
Oct 27, 2017
167
A Cave
No ones denying that the music in Sonic 1 & 2 is great but if you wanted any further proof just take the word from the man Tee Lopes himself







I really hope Mania 2 delves further into the MS/GG series, seeing OG Silver Sonic again was the highlight of that game for me and I got a chuckle out of seeing the controllable bubbles from Aqua Lake return in Hydrocity
 

~Fake

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
With these bosses, is it.... The dark souls of Sonic?
Green Hill Zone act 3 from Sonic 2-8bits. Actually the entire Sonic 2-8bits are the dark souls of the series.
Sonic 1-8bits otherwise I think both Forest/Labirynt zone have hard bosses. The Forest Zone act 2 EN version are the dark souls of the game zone.
 
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Treasure Silvergun

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 4, 2017
2,206
Soooo it's the Mario killer the Mega Drive never actually got, huh?
(kidding, kidding)

I appreciate your boldness, OP. And I think I agree with you because, truth be told, I never got what millions of people saw in Mega Drive Sonic.
 

Duffking

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,809
Sonic 1 is ok in the 8 bit version.

Sonic 2 is fucking dreadful, even on the MS version where you can actually see a reasonable amount. Whoever decided it was a great idea to have an entire zone of tubes that you have to jump in that then spit you out into either pits of spikes or the way forward needs a stern talking to. It's the video game equivalent of "here's 3 doors, one lets you live, the others kill you".
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,531
Interesting argument but definitely not one I agree with. Mainly because I feel the momentum is just too important - the feel of Sonic is key to my enjoyment.

The MS/GG version lacks this entirely while exhibiting severe performance issues. I'm not really keen on the simple platforming stages.

Still, it's different enough that I can respect someone preferring it!
 

Cantona222

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,136
Kuwait
Interesting point of view OP. Now I want to try the Master System version since I've never tried it.
Is there an easy/accessible way now to play the Master System version?
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,889
Yes, yes, YES ! It's like you read my mind. I was playing this game last week and literally though about Sonic 1 on Master System being better than the Megadrive games but also my favorite Sonic.

Better exploration, less (shallow) speed, better gameplay. Finding the hidden stones was rewarding. In the others Sonic you just want to reach the end as fast as you can which I never found interesting.

After the Marios I was never motivated to play the Megadrive Sonics, but this one I absolutely wanted to see the end. Alex Kidd in the miracle world (another real platformer) and this one are my favorite games on Master System. Momentum based Sonic games have not good gameplay.

Seriously you nailed it ! I agree with every points you made in this beautiful love letter to the exquisite Sonic 1 on Master Sytem !
 

baudelinog

Member
Oct 30, 2017
173
Sonic I for the Master System, for me, is not jus the best Sonic I version, but the best Sonic game ever. May I be the only one with this opinion? May be.

Also, WonderBoy III: The Dragon's Trap >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonic I. Being Sonic I an EXCELLENT game.
 

Yuuber

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,165
While I don't agree, I have fond memories of renting a GameGear for the weekend just so I could play Sonic, back when my folks couldn't afford a Genesis/Mega Drive. It really like the caves in the first stage and the sountrack too.

Great game :)
 

Based0ne

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,258
USA
Wait, Sonic 1 originally released on the MS? I was so not aware of this! Is this like the Game Gear game?
 

BDGAME

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,090
Brasília
I never stop to thinking about it, but I remember that I get bored of the first sonic on the third world, while I played until finish the sonic for Master System.

If the sonic for SMS was remade with the graphics and sound of the sonic Mania, I can say for sure it's a better game than the sonic 1 for mega drive.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,713
You make a great case OP, thanks for writing this well thought-out piece.

Without knowing the 8-Bit Sonic too well (I only played at a cousins place when I was kid for a brief time), I feel you are right.
 

Opa-Opa

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 16, 2018
1,766
I like it, my first sonic game btw.

But no, it does not even compare. Why? Because I played it to hell and remember almost nothing. On the other hand, genesis sonic is engraved in my head, and I never owned it. Much more memorable.
 

~Fake

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
Wait, Sonic 1 originally released on the MS? I was so not aware of this! Is this like the Game Gear game?
Almost, besides better perfomance and much screen space. Some zone have differences by large.
For example:
The first boss in GG you can reach anytime you like. The first boss in Master System just when Dr. Robotnik cames down to attack.
The Brigde boss in GG has different level design unlike the Master System.
The Forest act 2 is the most different zone ever. In GG if I remember right you can go up or down anytime you like. In the Master System version you can just go up and the screen follow you, so they make a deadly screen fall everytime you keeping go up.
Scrap Brain from GG the flamethower from the top can actually hit you. In Master System version only if you jump.
The fortress zone have some different design. Just minor.

I played on a original Master System 3 revision from Brazil in that time made by Tectoy. They used the EN version. IMO show less lag than the original Master System.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,893
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
Truthbombs in this thread. The way it controls and was paced is a lot more my speed. It made me want to explore and engage with the levels more than I ever did in the 16 bit games. I feel similarly about the 8-bit Mickey games on Gamegear and Master System too.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,833
Almost, besides better perfomance and much screen space. Some zone have differences by large.
For example:
The first boss in GG you can reach anytime you like. The first boss in Master System just when Dr. Robotnik cames down to attack.
The Brigde boss in GG has different level design unlike the Master System.
The Forest act 2 is the most different zone ever. In GG if I remember right you can go up or down anytime you like. In the Master System version you can just go up and the screen follow you, so they make a deadly screen fall everytime you keeping go up.
Scrap Brain from GG the flamethower from the top can actually hit you. In Master System version only if you jump.
The fortress zone have some different design. Just minor.

I played on a original Master System 3 revision from Brazil in that time made by Tectoy. They used the EN version. IMO show less lag than the original Master System.

That title goes to Labyrinth Zone act 2, its a totally different act between systems.
 

IronicSonic

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,639
Sonic 1 already gets shit on enough for no reason and it's tiring to see people finding any excuse to dog pile on it. Sonic 1 MD isn't even lesser to its sequels imo, it still stands great on its own.

I don't think OP want to dog pile on Sonic 1 MD but sure that "Sonic 1 MD was shite" narrative is a bit tiring. I bought the game again in Switch and still is a wonderful platformer and M2 additions keep the game surprisingly fresh!!

Also, Wasn't Sonic 1 MS developed in like 8 months?
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,595
Columbus, OH
It is very, very, very likely (as in, I'm 99.99% sure of this, I'm just waiting for a specific dump to come out (which has been found) to be able to present as absolute proof) that the 8-bit Sonic 1 port is based off of a very early version of Sonic 1 for the Genesis. What is very likely to have happened is that, once Sonic Team had stopped iterating on core gameplay and level tropes (i.e. after their initial CES appearance with the non-interactive demo), they likely had a meeting with Ancient to get on the same page then didn't communicate after. Between that period where Sonic Team met with Ancient to present what they thought Sonic 1 would be, and when Sonic 1 on the Genesis ultimately released, a number of changes occured that didn't get reflected in the 8-bit port.

Could you expand on the bolded? is this the CES demo or something else altogether? the Sonic development history for both one and two are about the most fascinating in gaming history for me.
 

nu_faust

Member
Oct 27, 2017
305
Smt
I'm not gonna claim to be partial since 8-Bit Sonic was my first Sonic experience & holds a very special place in my heart but I think most people can agree that it did some things better than its 16-Bit version and was criminally criminally underrated, it was one of the best 8-Bit games ever.

I still remember the dissapointment I had when I first played the 16-Bit Sonic after years of dreaming about it. It was good but not much much better than my old Sonic. I expected something like the jump from GB Mario 1 to NES Mario 3 and what I got was a prettier, better sounding game with much better physics engine (hugely important factor in a Sonic game to be honest) while lacking some stuff like difficulty, exploration, bosses & overall cohesion.
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,889
Soooo it's the Mario killer the Mega Drive never actually got, huh?
(kidding, kidding)

I appreciate your boldness, OP. And I think I agree with you because, truth be told, I never got what millions of people saw in Mega Drive Sonic.
In a way yes. Videogames history would have being very different if the Sonic formula was based on MS Sonic 1 and not the flashy (and rather hollow) genesis games.

Dreamcast 2 and 3 could have existed in this alternate reality. Maybe. ;-)
 

Molto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,022
I mean, it's a really good game, so is the MS version of Sonic 2. Definitely underrated. But I really can't say they're better than the Genesis versions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
Seeing a lot of love for both Sonic 1 and 2 for the Master System, but no mentions of Sonic-not-3D-Blast for the Master System - that somehow only released on Brazil. Predecessor of Donkey Kong Country.

It was mind blowing for me at the time, it looked beautiful even though it animated worse (and it was slower) than Sonic 1.

Egypt stage sucked and, in retrospect, the gameplay in general. Until Sonic Advance though, it was my only way to play as Knuckles :)

313424_front.jpg

gfs_24748_2_2.jpg

gfs_24748_2_4.jpg

gfs_24748_2_10_mid.jpg
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,595
Columbus, OH
Seeing a lot of love for both Sonic 1 and 2 for the Master System, but no mentions of Sonic-not-3D-Blast for the Master System - that somehow only released on Brazil. Predecessor of Donkey Kong Country.

It was mind blowing for me at the time, it looked beautiful even though it animated worse (and it was slower) than Sonic 1.

Egypt stage sucked and, in retrospect, the gameplay in general. Until Sonic Advance though, it was my only way to play as Knuckles :)

313424_front.jpg

gfs_24748_2_2.jpg

gfs_24748_2_4.jpg

gfs_24748_2_10_mid.jpg

this game came out two years after DKC my man...
 

RiZ IV

Member
Oct 27, 2017
810
I've never played the master system version of Sonic, but that looks damn impressive for an 8-bit era game.
 

Deleted member 43485

User requested account closure
Banned
May 16, 2018
68
I can't really say about the other master system games. S2 felt weak, SC was better, STT was an improvement on SC, SL is just sad, and SB is a sad joke. Its too bad as it could have been better than the genesis games, but S2 and S3&K are better than S1 ever was sadly.
 

adz2ka

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,042
^ ooooh, nice pyro

---

Sonic 2 MS/GG is TRASH, even beyond the screen issues of the GG version turning the first boss into a complete nightmare.
You got them hang gliders, you got that spikes galore and you got TUUUUUUBES.

Sonic 1 MS is a much grander product in every possible way.


Sony 2 handgliders cements the game as officially the worst game in history.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,177
I have to say, what an excellent OP. You definitely sold me on this game. I never looked into the 8-bit games at all because Sonic 2 on Game Gear repelled me so hard. I'm going to have to try to find a way to play this one.
 

Haribokart

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,087
After years playing the Master System Sonic games I was disappointed in the Mega Drive versions when I finally got that console. They were still good and had character, but not in the 'pure' way that the Master System titles were. Game Gear versions were awful because of the changes to fit the display area on such a small screen.
 

Dartastic

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,779
I remember punching my Game Gear as a kid trying to beat this game. I broke the screen and Montgomery Ward replaced the console since mom bought the extended warranty. Thanks mom.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,436
Slightly off topic, but Spinter Cell Double Agent is better on Xbox over Xbox 360/PS3, the so called downgraded ports are sometimes better, i played Sonic 1 on Master System a while ago out of curiosity, it's pretty fun, but im blinded by nostalgia so i still think the Genesis version is better.
 

Gelf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,406
I never could get into 8-bit Sonic 1, it was too much of a standard platformer for my taste. I missed the sprawling levels and especially the physics of MD Sonic. I didn't mind Sonic Chaos though as that at least had levels more resembling the 16bit titles.
 

Deleted member 48897

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Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Do you want to spend the better part of an hour looking at the differences between Sonic 1 SMS and Sonic 1 GG? Of course you do!