Artifact |OT| Development Stopped

ZeroX · Apr 13, 2020

I don't love the five slot limit, it works in Runeterra but I did enjoy that going extremely wide on a lane was viable before

But I do like how positioning is a lot more precise and tactical and card design reflects that

jon bones · Apr 13, 2020

Pixieking said:
Ooof... That 5 slot limit is something I was hoping wasn't true from the rumours. But I'll manage... Like...

Yeah, if I played a boardgame with a 5 slot limit, I'd accept it no problems, it's just the part of me comparing 2.0 to CCGs that's a bit put off.

ZeroX said:
I don't love the five slot limit, it works in Runeterra but I did enjoy that going extremely wide on a lane was viable before

But I do like how positioning is a lot more precise and tactical and card design reflects that

tactical board game vibe is exactly what i need from artifact 2.0

there are enough "pure" ccgs out there (outside of a proper digital asynch netrunner )

Pixieking · Apr 13, 2020

jon bones said:
tactical board game vibe is exactly what i need from artifact 2.0

there are enough "pure" ccgs out there (outside of a proper digital asynch netrunner )

Yeah, I think it's just me being all Old Wizened Artifact Player: "Back in myyyyyy day, Artifact had wide lanes!". I've always loved the board-game feel of Artifact, so it's not going to stop me from digging into 2.0.

DiscoShark · Apr 14, 2020

Pixieking said:
Ooof... That 5 slot limit is something I was hoping wasn't true from the rumours. But I'll manage... Like...

If the rumors are anything to go by the restrictive ruleset is supposed to be able to open up heroes and abilities whose sole purpose it is to "break" those rules. Like a card that increases the number of units you can put into a single lane etc.

I'd be curious if every lane happening at once means there won't be this passive emphasis to push the first lane and ignore the last lane, gonna need more info on how the games play out.

Pixieking · Apr 14, 2020

DiscoShark said:
If the rumors are anything to go by the restrictive ruleset is supposed to be able to open up heroes and abilities whose sole purpose it is to "break" those rules. Like a card that increases the number of units you can put into a single lane etc.

Ohhh, that sounds pretty damn awesome. Not read that specific rumour before.

DiscoShark said:
I'd be curious if every lane happening at once means there won't be this passive emphasis to push the first lane and ignore the last lane, gonna need more info on how the games play out.

I think players will push towards making all three lanes competitive, if not at first, then certainly after a few weeks of losing against people who explicitly do that.

Twig · Apr 14, 2020

Taking the game in a super bland obvious direction is not what I was hoping for.

Lame.

That's my initial reaction, anyway. I trust Valve. They don't make bad games. We'll see.

RepairmanJack · Apr 20, 2020

https://playartifact.com/news/3487417872003751630

More changes!

Them listing out the general feel of feedback they've gotten is the best part. Stats, ranking, progression and advancing the tournament system is all amazing news.

Deleted member 2802 · Apr 20, 2020

Bolbo working on 420

jon bones · Apr 20, 2020

RepairmanJack said:
https://playartifact.com/news/3487417872003751630

More changes!

Them listing out the general feel of feedback they've gotten is the best part. Stats, ranking, progression and advancing the tournament system is all amazing news.

I can't believe it took them a whole dead game to realize they needed progression. Thankfully the "people will play it just to have fun!!" crowd is gone

ZeroX · Apr 20, 2020

Fighting for initiative was actually one of my favorite parts of the original

benj · Apr 20, 2020

all this stuff sounds fine and good, but it's a little hard for me to imagine that changes of this magnitude are really enough to 'reboot' the game. like, it's clear that the game is changing a lot, but it also seems like it's fundamentally the same game—is that enough to bring back players who feel like they got their fill of something a year and a half ago? or is it really going to snag an audience that wasn't interested the first time around?

I obviously am operating with much less information than they are, and I'm sure that, being Valve, all of their decisions are very driven by data and very well-founded explanatory theories for that data. I'm just some chucklehead on a forum. all the same, I'd be really interested to read whatever design document they're working off of that purports to explain why Artifact slumped the first time around, and why this altered Artifact will succeed where the last iteration failed, because these seem like relatively modest changes given the problems that they're trying to fix

RepairmanJack · Apr 20, 2020

benj said:
all this stuff sounds fine and good, but it's a little hard for me to imagine that changes of this magnitude are really enough to 'reboot' the game. like, it's clear that the game is changing a lot, but it also seems like it's fundamentally the same game—is that enough to bring back players who feel like they got their fill of something a year and a half ago? or is it really going to snag an audience that wasn't interested the first time around?

I obviously am operating with much less information than they are, and I'm sure that, being Valve, all of their decisions are very driven by data and very well-founded explanatory theories for that data. I'm just some chucklehead on a forum. all the same, I'd be really interested to read whatever design document they're working off of that purports to explain why Artifact slumped the first time around, and why this altered Artifact will succeed where the last iteration failed, because these seem like relatively modest changes given the problems that they're trying to fix

Most word of mouth about the original game though was that it was fun and interesting but the monetization sucked and it was too long or too complicated. I don't know if it will really bring in a big audience right away but changes like those and then adding stuff like progression and single player to bring others in the audience could build from there and build a new audience.

LightBang · Apr 20, 2020

"Arrows point forward by default" , thank you!

Can't wait to give this a spin.

Deleted member 4494 · Apr 21, 2020

Huh, they're adding a campaign? That's kind of interesting since I'm pretty sure that was something they were super against initially.

RepairmanJack · Apr 21, 2020

Spoo said:
Huh, they're adding a campaign? That's kind of interesting since I'm pretty sure that was something they were super against initially.

By all accounts it was Garfield that was against a lot of the common digital game practices, and he's gone.

Deleted member 4494 · Apr 21, 2020

RepairmanJack said:
By all accounts it was Garfield that was against a lot of the common digital game practices, and he's gone.

I'm only recalling this conversation from Gabe: https://youtu.be/mERhtoD21rU?t=977 in which he describes how Artifact isn't trying to be a certain set of somethings, and one of those things being a SP game. That being said, things have definitely changed.

RepairmanJack · Apr 21, 2020

Spoo said:
I'm only recalling this conversation from Gabe: https://youtu.be/mERhtoD21rU?t=977 in which he describes how Artifact isn't trying to be a certain set of somethings, and one of those things being a SP game. That being said, things have definitely changed.

Yeah there was definitely talk about it in general from Valve and the team, there was a decent amount of interviews with Garfield where he was talking up how much he was against stuff like Ladders, Grinds, progression systems, foils/cosmetics that just seems so anti-Valve that it just seemed like they gave Garfield just a little too much decision weight when it came to the original launch.

With regards to the single player, I bet a large part of that was valve specifically and I bet the reaction to City Crawl with Underlords has been a big reason for that reversal.

Deleted member 2840 · Apr 21, 2020

Did they ever state the game would become F2P?

Deleted member 2802 · Apr 21, 2020

saci said:
Did they ever state the game would become F2P?

It has to be 🐃

Hektor · Apr 27, 2020

Artifact on Steam

Artifact now features two games: Artifact Classic, the original Dota 2 trading card game, and Artifact Foundry, a special edition with streamlined gameplay, new cards, new single-player content, and an improved new player experience.

playartifact.com

Deleted member 2802 · Apr 27, 2020

Hektor said:
Artifact on Steam

Artifact now features two games: Artifact Classic, the original Dota 2 trading card game, and Artifact Foundry, a special edition with streamlined gameplay, new cards, new single-player content, and an improved new player experience.

playartifact.com

Artifact Hero Poll

Take this survey powered by surveymonkey.com. Create your own surveys for free.

www.surveymonkey.com

RepairmanJack · Apr 27, 2020

Why do they keep wanting our input from incomplete knowledge?

I'm voting on Snapfire and Arc Warden purely off their cards and skills likely being interesting.

I'm liking the changes to the base cards we've seen though. All of those skills seem nice and distinctive and make them a lot more worth while than just random throw in's when you get bad heroes in draft.

Hektor · Apr 27, 2020

I voted for snapfire because i want kisses and cookies

Deleted member 2802 · Apr 27, 2020

Hektor said:
I voted for snapfire because i want kisses and cookies

😗 🍪

jon bones · Apr 28, 2020

Hektor said:
Artifact on Steam

Artifact now features two games: Artifact Classic, the original Dota 2 trading card game, and Artifact Foundry, a special edition with streamlined gameplay, new cards, new single-player content, and an improved new player experience.

playartifact.com

This is sounding very good. I like that abilities cost mana, and that they are looking to make heroes more interesting. That was a huge missed opportunity, especially seeing how well LoR does it.

RepairmanJack · Apr 28, 2020

jon bones said:
This is sounding very good. I like that abilities cost mana, and that they are looking to make heroes more interesting. That was a huge missed opportunity, especially seeing how well LoR does it.

It's crazy to think just these 3 heroes sound more interesting than all of 1.0's heroes, and these are the heroes that are just used for Draft filler. These are the heroes you fall back on.

Hektor · May 4, 2020

Artifact on Steam

Artifact now features two games: Artifact Classic, the original Dota 2 trading card game, and Artifact Foundry, a special edition with streamlined gameplay, new cards, new single-player content, and an improved new player experience.

playartifact.com

They are straight up turning the Shop into Underlords

Deleted member 2802 · May 4, 2020

I did not like the shop at all.

Anything to change that would be most appreciated.

RepairmanJack · May 4, 2020

The items teased seem crazy. I can see a deck having items of just supplemental type of items, or a deck more focused around items much more. Neconomicon is basically Venomancer the item lol

Plus the item similarities to Underlords is crazy. It's like they're adding another layer of meta on top of the game. Could be overwhelming but I'm hopeful.

Deleted member 2840 · May 4, 2020

Aliev gaem?

Almeister · May 4, 2020

Most consumables, including Town Portal Scrolls, have been removed from the game completely. You now get a similar item, the Blink Scroll, the first time you bring each enemy tower to half health. Blink Scrolls work like a Blink Dagger but are consumed on use (each let you move a hero to a slot in an adjacent lane).

I like this change. The scrolls were never a particularly fun element.

i hate cheaters · May 4, 2020

biggest problem with the shop was whoever got better heroes at the start just pulled way too far ahead

not sure if this fixes that or not. i remember it being one of the reasons why i didn't like the draft

Pixieking · May 4, 2020

Consumables could have a huge impact, but you could be unlucky with your selection.

Was my biggest problem. Hopefully this fixes that, though it's a little light on that detail.

RepairmanJack · May 4, 2020

i hate cheaters said:
biggest problem with the shop was whoever got better heroes at the start just pulled way too far ahead

not sure if this fixes that or not. i remember it being one of the reasons why i didn't like the draft

I'm confused what you mean by this? Are you talking only draft? Because you decide what heroes to put out? Unless you mean the early game hero matchups with placement, in which that has been addressed too.

If you just mean in draft, I can understand, but the way it's phrased makes me think you meant that issue in general but it was worse in draft?

i hate cheaters · May 4, 2020

RepairmanJack said:
I'm confused what you mean by this? Are you talking only draft? Because you decide what heroes to put out? Unless you mean the early game hero matchups with placement, in which that has been addressed too.

If you just mean in draft, I can understand, but the way it's phrased makes me think you meant that issue in general but it was worse in draft?

the issue was more painful in draft, but i remember the randomness of where heroes spawn and what they fight also mattering in constructed

as long as they remove a lot of the RNG, the gold shop might work as a concept. it just felt like a win-more mechanic in artifact 1.0, except with the problem of luck instead of skill letting people get that early boost

RepairmanJack · May 4, 2020

i hate cheaters said:
the issue was more painful in draft, but i remember the randomness of where heroes spawn and what they fight also mattering in constructed

as long as they remove a lot of the RNG, the gold shop might work as a concept. it just felt like a win-more mechanic in artifact 1.0, except with the problem of luck instead of skill letting people get that early boost

Oh ok, yeah they've changed deployment entirely. Deployment Deep Dive

Pixieking · May 10, 2020

The more I think about it, the more I like the sound of the single mana pool as discussed in Mechanics. It's going to fundamentally change the game by leveling the playing field and making Mana Rounds 6, 7 and 9 less "I win!". Obviously, mana costs and cards are being reworked, but currently, Mono Blue and Mono/Majority Black decks hit their stride at 6 or 7 mana. I've played multiple games now where I've Hip Fire'd at the end of Mana Round 6, then Chain Frost to decimate Lane 1 > Chain Frost to decimate Lane 2 > win with Lanes 2 and/or 3. A single mana pool means more thought and strategy for the aggressor, and a life-line for the weaker player.

Deleted member 2802 · May 11, 2020

RepairmanJack · May 11, 2020

The changes to Ignite better not mean Improvements are going away. Probably one of my favorite mechanics of the original game.

Almeister · May 11, 2020

RepairmanJack said:
The changes to Ignite better not mean Improvements are going away. Probably one of my favorite mechanics of the original game.

Seriously, if I can't make my side of the board look like MS Flight Simulator I'm out.

RepairmanJack · May 11, 2020

Almeister said:
Seriously, if I can't make my side of the board look like MS Flight Simulator I'm out.

It seems Barracks still has the symbol for Improvements, but it seems weird that the card descriptions calls it an Aura.

Pixieking · May 11, 2020

I expect they're going to get a lot of questions this week relating to Improvements and "Wtf is an Aura?".

Pixieking · May 15, 2020

Hopefully it'll be irrelevant in 2.0, but god how I wish there was a way to filter out decks you don't want to play against - Mono Blue decks are, generally speaking, so bloody boring and predictable to play against.

Almeister · May 15, 2020

Pixieking said:
Hopefully it'll be irrelevant in 2.0, but god how I wish there was a way to filter out decks you don't want to play against

Certainly an interesting approach, kind of a self-policing meta. I don't know of any card games that have done this, but it sounds good in principle.

Pixieking · May 15, 2020

Almeister said:
Certainly an interesting approach, kind of a self-policing meta. I don't know of any card games that have done this, but it sounds good in principle.

The only issue would be if people abused it, I think? But they could control that by only having one or two filtering options at a time, like, say, No Mono Blue + No Mono Green, so that people weren't locking themselves into an ever-decreasing pool of players.

ZeroX · May 15, 2020

Pixieking said:
Hopefully it'll be irrelevant in 2.0, but god how I wish there was a way to filter out decks you don't want to play against - Mono Blue decks are, generally speaking, so bloody boring and predictable to play against.

no no no no no that's a terrible thing for a card game

Pixieking · May 15, 2020

ZeroX said:
no no no no no that's a terrible thing for a card game

I mean, I am honestly sick of playing against Mono Blue, and it's driving me away from the game. Maybe if Artifact wasn't a ded game, then there'd be more movement with the meta, but I can tell you the type of deck I'm playing against from the second round, more often than not, and with Mono Blue, I don't even need to get to second round to know it's - more often than not - "Race to Incarnation", with a couple of Bolt of Damocles in there to finish off. My heart legit droops when I see all blue heroes. :/

More objectively, I don't see why it would hurt in a casual setting. I think of it like allowing CS:GO players to select what type of game they play - some people just don't like bomb defusal maps, and others hate the life out of Office, so why not allow for a decent amount of filtering in casual mode?

ZeroX · May 15, 2020

Pixieking said:
I mean, I am honestly sick of playing against Mono Blue, and it's driving me away from the game. Maybe if Artifact wasn't a ded game, then there'd be more movement with the meta, but I can tell you the type of deck I'm playing against from the second round, more often than not, and with Mono Blue, I don't even need to get to second round to know it's - more often than not - "Race to Incarnation", with a couple of Bolt of Damocles in there to finish off. My heart legit droops when I see all blue heroes. :/

More objectively, I don't see why it would hurt in a casual setting. I think of it like allowing CS:GO players to select what type of game they play - some people just don't like bomb defusal maps, and others hate the life out of Office, so why not allow for a decent amount of filtering in casual mode?

If you have that option you can just start deck sniping or building around completely different metas, which is against the spirit of the game. Like take the Runeterra tournament that just happened, because of how everyone brought three decks but you banned one of your opponent's decks, people could bring a deck that was very good if you could avoid a specific color. The deck can't get that kind of momentum in a normal ladder, but with that check removed, it's significantly stronger. People banning out decks means banning decks they lose to. It'd be so abusable.

Also if you're coming up against Mono Blue now... well, kudos for still playing the game lol. It's over a year of just the base set, this kind of homogenization happens.

Pixieking · May 15, 2020

ZeroX said:
If you have that option you can just start deck sniping or building around completely different metas, which is against the spirit of the game. Like take the Runeterra tournament that just happened, because of how everyone brought three decks but you banned one of your opponent's decks, people could bring a deck that was very good if you could avoid a specific color. The deck can't get that kind of momentum in a normal ladder, but with that check removed, it's significantly stronger. People banning out decks means banning decks they lose to. It'd be so abusable.

Yeah, fair enough. But at the same time, I'm thinking just for casual, it'd be pretty good - like, I'd love to run my deck against some specific colours, so having the option to filter out everything other than those colours to see how it performs would be fantastic. But, yeah, anything that allows filtering can be abused, s'true.

ZeroX said:
Also if you're coming up against Mono Blue now... well, kudos for still playing the game lol. It's over a year of just the base set, this kind of homogenization happens.

Yeah, it's just a shame that Mono Blue is basically what a lot of people run with - from high levels to newbies, it's basically the all-purpose "it wins but is boring" deck. Even Mono Reds which aim for ToT at Mana 8 seems to have a more varied play style because of the more varied red heroes.

Bah. Anyways. Cannot fricking wait for 2.0. Neeeeeeds it. :D

Hektor · May 18, 2020

Artifact on Steam

Artifact now features two games: Artifact Classic, the original Dota 2 trading card game, and Artifact Foundry, a special edition with streamlined gameplay, new cards, new single-player content, and an improved new player experience.

playartifact.com

Here's the updated road-map:

Test boring stuff
Trickle out invites, starting with players of the original release <- We are here
Work on the Beta, eventually transitioning to an open beta
Leave Beta

Emails will appear by
NEXT WEEK

Artifact |OT| Development Stopped

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