Well on a primarily gaming forum really there's only one way the convo is going to go which is thinly veiled Tim Sweeney and epic insults while apple is somehow the good guys. I mean tim apple deserves it for once no one gives him enough credit.
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The world loves this kind of stuff, especially if there's drama involved.
Tim Epic biting off *way* more than he can chew. I don't see how he thought he had any semblance of a case, when his entire strategy was contractually sharting himself with all the leverage of a doorstopper. The contract was initially stipulated, Tim bypassed it, broke the contract, and thought he had the moral high ground. It's not going to work out well for him.
Unlike a big chunk of his audience, slipping the judge a few free games and $10 coupons won't sway her opinion.
Unlike a big chunk of his audience, slipping the judge a few free games and $10 coupons won't sway her opinion.
Pretty sure Epic reached that the moment they set the wheels in motion by bypassing the App Store. They've been in that fetal position for weeks now.Epic is now reaching panel #3 in this comic...
Except Epic actively circumvented Apple. Epic was supposed to allow the same purchasing options in-app as they do off app. They removed in app to circumvent Apple. Apple isn't saying Epic owes them for off app sales, they're saying Epic breached their contract to not have to pay Apple.
Stealing definitely doesn't sound like the right word to use. Epic didn't even make more money off of each transaction because they lowered their prices accordingly.
People don't seem to understand that monopoly is a technical term, and it doesn't just mean a giant corporation you dislike.
The actually be ruled in court as a monopoly is incredibly rare -- and there's no way that Apple is a monopoly in the traditionally understood sense.
The more appropriate word is 'conversion'. Per their contract, Apple was due 30% of IAPs -- and since Epic enabled non-Apple IAPs in Fortnite iOS, Epic 'converted' money that was due to be Apple's into theirs by not using Apple IAP.
CNN used the word stealing. Apple is seeking damages. It's not about Epic not making more, but Epic breaking the contract they have with Apple.
Apple charges 30%. Epic sold for 20% off. Credit card fees are ~3%.
Where did the other 7% go? Into Epic's pockets. Just like the extra 27% went to Epic on PC before they pulled this stunt.
While I also hate the 30% cut (few digital storefronts actually earn it and Apple isn't one of them IMO), fuck them both for this shitshow.
I'm curious, what does it take to "earn it" and why doesn't Apple?
I'd say some semblance of curation (though no-one seems to do that except EGS I think?), storefront tools, guidance/help for devs, etc. I go back and forth on whether or not Steam earns it.
Also check out:
Does Valve deserve Steam’s 30 percent cut? Many developers say no
The platform wars are heating up on PC
www.polygon.com
Sorry, I should have been more clear, that would be my ideal scenario. Not the ideal scenario for any one of Apple, Epic or users.
In that scenario, Apple doesn't gain anything compared to a world where Fortnite is in the App Store and all payments go through Apple, but IMO they don't lose a whole lot. Maybe they lose out of on some Fortnite revenue, but that's not worse than the current situation where Fortnite is banned, and it's clear that Apple is willing to forgo that revenue to enforce their terms. I suspect if the side loading process isn't simple (i.e. requires syncing from a computer to side load), Epic might have a version of the game on the App Store and most people will end up using the App Store version of the game anyway. IMO it's a win for Epic since they have options now, it's a win for the consumer since we have options now, and it's arguably a win for Apple if Epic decides to create an App Store compliant version of Fortnite vs having no Fortnite at all.
Haven't watched Hoeg (I will tonight) but I assume this is Apple's strategy for arguing that the 30% commission isn't an "Apple Pay transaction fee", it's the cost of doing business on the App Store.
Saudi Arabian woman-tracking app still in Apple, Google stores
The controversial app remains available for download in both stores.
www.cnet.com
I'd say some semblance of curation (though no-one seems to do that except EGS I think?), storefront tools, guidance/help for devs, etc. I go back and forth on whether or not Steam earns it.
Also check out:
Does Valve deserve Steam’s 30 percent cut? Many developers say no
The platform wars are heating up on PC
Apple has editor's picks on App Store so it's clearly curated. Also personalization to the user as evidenced by their keynote speeches. There was also an article a few years back about how they combat fraud to manipulate search results. They provide developer tools, they have developed a language (swift) for people to build applications easily, they have metal for running games with GPU-like processing. If you follow their WWDC conferences (as I do, being a developer) they talk about all the tools they build for developers and a lot of platform features.
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This is straight up not true, what do you think WWDC is for? there are hundreds of hours of developer sessions going through how to utilize their APIs in addition to documentation. There's definitely curation going on as well (where do you think the game and app of the day come from?).
2020 has made people crazy. I wonder if this buffoonery by Epic would've still happened during a normal year.
Jesus...this is real life stalker app? Lord help usSaudi Arabian woman-tracking app still in Apple, Google stores
The controversial app remains available for download in both stores.
Well one thing is for sure, one of them is going to get fucked.
There are on average over 1,000 apps released every day on the App Store. Am handful of picks or an app of the day isn't nearly enough.
Number of monthly iOS app releases worldwide 2024 | Statista
In February 2024, approximately 37 thousand mobile apps were released through the Apple App Store.
www.statista.com
What do you suggest they should to do instead?There are on average over 1,000 apps released every day on the App Store. Am handful of picks or an app of the day isn't nearly enough.
Number of monthly iOS app releases worldwide 2024 | Statista
In February 2024, approximately 37 thousand mobile apps were released through the Apple App Store.
Apple does say in the complaint that Epic's actions are basically theft. Yes, they use the word "theft".
Apple also argues that Epic's claim, if successful, would undermine the entire walled garden business model and that the consequence of that wouldn't be limited to just phones; in other words, they say that the business model of building an integrated hardware/software operating environment and then selling access is an extremely common model and that the judge would upend a huge portion of the digital economy by agreeing with Epic's claims.
In other words, they are indirectly saying Epic's claims would kill consoles.
Apple also argues that Epic's claim, if successful, would undermine the entire walled garden business model and that the consequence of that wouldn't be limited to just phones; in other words, they say that the business model of building an integrated hardware/software operating environment and then selling access is an extremely common model and that the judge would upend a huge portion of the digital economy by agreeing with Epic's claims.
In other words, they are indirectly saying Epic's claims would kill consoles.
Apple states in their counterclaim that Epic offers Fortnite on six different digital platforms. What control, exactly, does Apple have over Epic beyond normal business dealings?
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory Point of Comparison
Bernie bros for trickle down Applenomics is a popular combo here.
Not allow crappy apps they don't want. It's their storefront that they built, they can choose what goes on the digital shelf. Issue is you can miss out on a lot of money doing so, so I understand why they have an "open the floodgates" approach.
Of course apple would equate an essential service like internet and phone access to video game consoles.
They will die together this way. But this is the true sequel to Alien vs. Predator. It doesn't matter who wins, we have already lost.
Their point is the law makes no distinction between a phone and a console.
Oh and, by the way, one of the chief arguments for home brew is that it allows a console to be used as a general-purpose computing device, which is artificially restricted by the manufacturer's grip on approving signed software.
There are millions of people that only have voice and data on their phone. It's an essential device. Going out of your way to to take a relatively niche product and make it into general purpose, well then I don't see the issue, it's rooted so you can do anything. The console firmware is not essential. That would be like Apple getting angry that someone is using Linux on an ipad instead of buying the same app in the apple store.
But the case is about the App Store and not the internet or phone access.
what epic is arguing is that they do not need to pay rent to a building that apple built and services and that apple is not allowed to evict epic when they willfully breach contract by sub renting its apartment, and then argue that apple should allow epic to hijack the building to do its own renting business without them having to pay apple anything for use of the building.
This is not about apples evil, nor its about epics "goodness" its about that specific case and you can totally agree that apple has a foot to stand on in this fight, while still think they are a shitty company.
