Alright, let's settle this — Which is better: Super Mario Bros. 2 or Super Mario Bros. 2

[Pop-O-Matic]

In this corner, we've got Super Mario Bros. 2, a game meant for those who mastered the original SMB, introducing such elements as poison mushrooms, airborne Bloopers, a distinct playstyle for Luigi, a set of challenging bonus levels after completing the main game, and, most importantly of all, cruelty.



In this corner, we've got Super Mario Bros. 2, a decidedly big departure from the genre, system and generation-defining first entry, focused more on tossing your enemies at other enemies than stomping them, as well as a much less linear level design, featuring elements like key-hunts and vertical platforming not found in the original. Still, despite it's disparities with it's predecessor (and the many games that came afterwords), many elements, like Shy Guys, Birdo and playable Peach & Toad would become staples of the franchise.

 

[Mesoian]

Doki Doki Panic.

 

[Cousin From Boston]

Doki Doki Panic.

Click to shrink...

One and done.

 

[Mekanos]

Lost Levels is not a very good game.

 

[Becks']

Lost Levels can go to hell.

 

[rpm]

Title and poll are asking two different questions.
The Lost Levels is the true SMB2, but Doki Doki Panic is a much better game

 

[steviestar3]

Lost Levels is bad and the developers should feel bad.

Getting Super Mario 2 USA instead might be the only time where Japan's very low opinion of overseas gamers actually worked to our benefit.

 

[halcali]

This isn't really a debatable topic. Doki Doki Panic is one of most impressionable and original 8-bit games of all time.
Lost Levels is just a harder (remix) of SMB.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Mario 2 USA was fun but not really Super Mario.

 

[Ecks]

It's interesting that Lost Levels elected to ignore everything that made the first game work. I'm curious if they really knew what they landed on back then.

 

[Toxi]

The one good thing Lost Levels did was introduce the world to Billymc.

 

[sir_crocodile]

Super Mario Brothers USA is better then both SMB1 and SMB2.

 

[Richietto]

Lost Levels is trash. SMB2US is a fantastic sequel and a fantastic game. Thank god we got that instead of that mess of a game.

 

[TreIII]

USA any day of the week.

I still hope that one day, we'll get a legit follow-up. Or at least become a style in Mario Maker 2...

 

[skeezx]

Mario 2 USA was fun but not really Super Mario.

Click to shrink...

technically no but most of the SMB 1&3 alumni had worked on it. it wasn't a random game with "mario 2" slapped on it, it was more or less of the same DNA

 

[Aaron]

Doki Doki Panic is a much better game. I love the SNES version in particular, it definitely felt like it got the most attention of the All-Stars bunch.

SMB2-JP can be decent but some of that shit is straight up Kaizo.

 

[Mekanos]

technically no but most of the SMB 1&3 alumni had worked on it. it wasn't a random game with "mario 2" slapped on it, it was more or less of the same DNA

Click to shrink...

The mind-blowing part is Doki Doki Panic started out as a concept for a Mario game.

 

[Kopite]

Are the SNES remake versions of the game better?

 

[Deleted member 8593]

Man, fuck Lost Levels

garbage ass game

 

[Deleted member 26156]

Well let's compare:

SMB2 USA

• Significant step up from the original, both in graphics and complexity
• Has 4 playable characters with their own unique sprite art and quality
• Has significantly impacted the future of the series
• Lots of replayablitiy with multiple characters and levels often having a number of secret areas
• Doesn't hate the player

SMB2 JP

• A low-tier romhack of the original
• Only two palette-swapped characters
• Has had very little impact on the future of the series
• Forced replayablity to access the final 5 worlds
• Has a fiery hatred of the player

Not even a question. SMB2 USA wins by a landslide.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Lost Levels is pretty much my favorite platformer of all time.

The other game is decent.

Are the SNES remake versions of the game better?

Click to shrink...

SNES version of Lost Levels removes the grind needed to unlock the second quest, but it fucks too much with the block physics that even ends up making the occasional jump a little harder, erases the small aesthetic differences that originally separated the game from SMB1, makes world 9 in particular way less trippy and visually distinct, and alters some backgrounds in such a way that adds invisible "kaizo blocks" where they didn't exist originally.

It's the better version to learn the game because the save system makes it a bit easier overall, but the original is ultimately better.

 

[GamerJM]

I think USA is better, but neither game is that great to me. Lost Levels is ROMhack-tier, and USA is just kinda weird and less polished than a regular game in the series. I prefer both SMB1 and 3 to both easily.

 

[Azriell]

I've always loved SMB2 USA and SMB LL is not great, so SMB2 USA wins easily. Really wish they'd use more SMB2 USA elements in new Mario games. Would love to see Shy Guys, Phantom, and Birdo used more, not to mention digging up vegetables and bird doors.amd jut the general asthetic.

 

[Mzo]

Doki Doki Panic.

Click to shrink...

How is this even a contest?

 

[mrmickfran]

Lost Levels is a glorified rom hack

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Localizing a different game as Mario 2 made sense.

In the 1980s. When there were so few Mario games out there, and there was a need to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible.

Heaven forbid that one game in the series forego the typical 4 worlds of training wheels and assume that the player already knows what he or she is doing. Especially when we've been playing Mario games for 30+ years at this point. Lost Levels becomes a more important and appealing game with every passing year.

 

[Deleted member 38050]

Lost Levels is dogshit, and anyone who voted for it belongs in prison.

 

[Palazzo]

The Japanese one is by far better. It's just a flatly better version of Mario 1, which is already a really excellent game. USA Mario 2 is still very fun and well-made but what it adds doesn't really make up for the loss of Mario 1 and 2j's awesome power-up / power-down system and great, momentum-heavy controls; it's easily the worst out of all four NES games by a fair margin.

I think most of the complaints about the Japanese Mario 2 come from people who aren't okay with a slightly harder-than-normal Mario game and look for excuses to write the game off, hence the "it's a glorified kaizo hack" / "it's unfair and trial-and-error" and so on. It's actually a very fair and telegraphed game.

 

[Izzy]

Doki Doki gave so much to the Mario franchise too. I don't want to live in a world where Peach doesn't float.

 

[Evil Lucario]

I've actually played Lost Levels first through Super Mario Bros DX on GBC and thoroughly enjoyed it there. It kicked my ass like nothing else, but as an 8 year old I loved it and eventually beat it.

2 USA might be the "better" game but after experiencing both original games on NES, I still sorta like Lost Levels more personally.

 

[Palazzo]

It's interesting that Lost Levels elected to ignore everything that made the first game work. I'm curious if they really knew what they landed on back then.

Click to shrink...

What? There isn't any game out there more like SMB1 than SMB2j. It's just a game made for people who already thoroughly digested SMB1 and wanted more, so it's natural that it isn't made with beginner players in mind like SMB1 necessarily needed to be.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I think most of the complaints about the Japanese Mario 2 come from people who aren't okay with a slightly harder-than-normal Mario game and look for excuses to write the game off, hence the "it's a glorified kaizo hack" / "it's unfair and trial-and-error" and so on. It's actually a very fair and telegraphed game.

Click to shrink...

There are people on ERA who seem to find challenge itself to be personally offensive. I've seen more than my fair share of polemics on the topic, ranging from general rants to absurd arguments about "accessibility."

What I love about Lost Levels is that it takes the already strong building blocks of its predecessor and does a fair bit more with them. W1-1 in Lost Levels is already a longer and more complex stage than any stage in the first game except W8-1. Some levels have branching paths. Some do a little more with the individual stage settings themselves (like a warp pipe in a castle stage that takes you outside of the castle). There are no repeat stages like there are in SMB1. The second quest is an actually distinct set of levels instead of just a replay with Beetles replacing Goombas.

The game makes a point of testing your knowledge of Super Mario tropes. SMB1 has you climb over the stage to reach warp zones, so LL occasionally has you climb over the stage to progress. There are way more 1-Ups and other secret power-ups in Lost Levels, but you often have to be observant to get them. Like sometimes you have to skip a Starman so that you can kick a shell right after it to wrack up points instead. Or sometimes you'll have to draw more Spinies from Lakitu in order to spawn enough enemies for a shell 1-Up. Or sometimes you'll have to stop a moving shell in order to put more enemies in its path for a 1-Up. Or sometimes you have to pay attention to your coin count so that you can make use of the magic number at the flagpole (first usage of this mechanic in the series) for a free extra life in almost every stage. It's just a rewarding game to play, as it takes the basic but fun core of the original game and asks that the player does more with it.

There are a lot of things about SMB1 and Lost Levels that I think make them appealing games to this day, but probably the one thing in particular that stands out is the Fire Flower. It's a weird conundrum that with the more power-ups that were added to the series later, the less important that they became individually. A power-up in a modern Mario game exists more to help you explore or to recover some extra trinket than anything else. In the first two games, the Fire Flower makes you an all-powerful killing machine (the levels are pretty linear compared to later games and most enemies can be wiped out easily with it), but the fact that it only takes 1 hit to knock you back to small Mario means that you're still incredibly vulnerable. There's such a juxtaposition of being simultaneously powerful and vulnerable in those two games that just adds a ton of tension, and it's a really cool feeling that hardly any sequel since then can really convey.

And I really think that most of the complaints about difficulty are overblown. I'd go so far as to say that LL never really moves beyond the World 8 difficulty level of the original game; it just reaches that plateau much more quickly. And World 8-4 from Lost Levels in particular is considerably easier than World 8-4 of the original game. SMB1's 8-4 has no power-ups; SMB2's 8-4 has two.

And what I find particularly amusing about all the hand-wringing over difficulty is that Lost Levels really does hand out extra lives like candy for people who know what they're doing: flagpole trick, infinite 1-Up trick (which can be done as early as the very second Koopa you encounter), and infinite continues. SMB2 USA ironically is the only one of the 4 NES Mario games that has limited continues.

 

[BasilZero]

Played both but I love Super Mario Bros 2 USA more than the Lost Levels.

 

[ASaiyan]

I don't see how this is a debate. We got a whole different Mario 2 in the West precisely because the original is utter trash. It was "Lost" for good reason.

 

[Jiggy]

Depends, are you a masochist?

 

[Pineconn]

Way too much love for Lost Levels in this thread. That game is a farce. I'd rather play Mario Maker levels that drop 10 Koopas on me at the start.

Yeah. The obvious vote is for Doki Doki Panic, considering it actually has thoughtfulness in its game design.

 

[SeroTyler]

Super Mario Bros. 2

 

[moomoo14]

Lost Levels feels like a ROM hack. The only parts that make it fun are the fundamentals established in the first game. In my opinion, it remains the worst mainline Mario game ever made by a country mile.

 

[Deleted member 15125]

Way too much love for Lost Levels in this thread. That game is a farce. I'd rather play Mario Maker levels that drop 10 Koopas on me at the start.

Yeah. The obvious vote is for Doki Doki Panic, considering it actually has thoughtfulness in its game design.

Click to shrink...

Way too much love for Lost Levels in this thread? Most people are calling it trash, unfortunately. It is absolutely not Kaizo levels of unfair at all. I'm not sure what it is about LL that makes people lose their minds.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

It is absolutely not Kaizo levels of unfair at all. I'm not sure what it is about LL that makes people lose their minds.

Click to shrink...

bUt iT fEeEls liKe a RomhAcK.

 

[Andromeda]

Super Mario Brothers USA is better then both SMB1 and SMB2.

Click to shrink...

This. It's really a great game, full of charm.

 

[apocat]

The western version, no contest. I have no patience for the real sequel.

 

[Antony]

Ehhh they're both my least favourite in the series, below Super Mario Land even.
It just goes SMB > SMB3 > SMW in my head.

 

[skeezx]

as a kid i'd take Doki/USA over LL any day but as an adult i came to appreciate SMB1 on a pure skill based level, watching speed runs and all that... played SMB1 to hell and back on wii VC for awhile and when i got into LL again it was like opening a bottle of 50 year old aged wine. so much good stuff there, but you really have to be in a proper mindset

 

[MisterSnrub]

SOOPAH mario bros 2 game of the year once again baybeeeeeee

 

[Mega Man Zero]

I love Lost Levels. This is how you make hard Mario levels, not like the cluttered Mario Maker bullshit we're sure to get plenty more of next week.

 

[halcali]

SMB2 USA is a work of art.
The music, the enemies, the levels, the sprites, the COLOURS!!!

 

[TheDutchSlayer]

off course its mario 2 (USA)

also everyone who has not seen it yet should really see GH video on the subject.

 

[Edge]

Who really cares about the original SMB2? I think SMB2 US is the best thing that could have happened to the franchise. The OG is something that you would patch into a game for free these days, not even sell as DLC.
Zero improvements, no changes, just more of 1 with unnecessary difficulty changes. Very unNintendo what they did here. The cheap sellout of Nintendo sequels.

Lost Levels feels like a ROM hack.

Click to shrink...

Perfect.

 

[Deleted member 5621]

Doki Doki feels like ass to play, so any other option wins by default.