Deleted member 11413

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Consider this: Most gamers today own multiple consoles and there are very few PC exclusive gamers. People who play a lot of non-action based RPGs and don't own a PS4, probably own a Switch at least. Octopath Traveler came out not to long ago. It's a pretty long game. The Torna expansion for Xenoblade 2 is coming out this week. Valkyria Chronicles 2 is coming out in a couple of weeks. Dragon Quest XI is a full priced game. On PC it is digital only. On PS4 you own the disc at least. Same price. Also Spider-man just came out and most people don't exclusively play one genre. In such a scenario, the PC version of DQXI, with almost zero marketing, selling even 50,000 in the first week, seems pretty good?


Not enough draw for horny teenagers looking to shag a teacher.
I know you are joking, but some small part of this is true. The modern anime aesthetics and provocative designs played a role in why games like Persona 5 and Nier Automata did so well. They look cool and flashy in trailers. Dragon Quest doesn't have that, even though there are a lot of cool things in the game. It's also way more of a slow burn.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,683
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Absolutely criminal that this isn't doing way better.

For fuck's sake, buy this game y'all.
Funny you would say "criminal", because somethingsomething war crime denial something.

Sorry I wasn't going to bring this up, but suggesting that a videogame not selling very well is "criminal" when the composer is a far-right nationalist who puts out paid ads denying war crimes from WW2 and laughs at homosexual suicide rates in Japan on a talk show is....... pretty ironic.
 

CrichtonKicks

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Oct 25, 2017
11,340
Really, i just want the series to do great in the west lol. The success of games like NieR, Persona, Xenoblade, Octopath, and Monster Hunter made me hope DQ11 would benefit too.

It really helps that DQ is mega profitable just with a Japanese release. They just need to make a decent profit on localization to make it work while. With some of the others you listed the games really needed worldwide success to continue at all.

And it probably is benefiting- 100k launch week will almost certainly end up closer to 300k in PC sales by this time next year. Maybe even better with strong word of mouth. If PS4 sales double that then you are looking at 500k+ for Western release. That's a pretty great number that may even end up with more effort to align launch dates closer for the eventual DQXII.
 

Deleted member 5535

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That's good for PC sales in FW tho? Even more with the bad marketing that Square Enix Europe and US did, with it being in the same week of Spider-man and they focusing on Tomb Raider (and putting it on the same month).

Really, i just want the series to do great in the west lol. The success of games like NieR, Persona, Xenoblade, Octopath, and Monster Hunter made me hope DQ11 would benefit too.

DQ already did great on the west tho, and way before all those games. And unlike those games which counted Japan and Asia sales for them to be million sellers (well, except for MHW), DQ with 8 and 9 sold more than 1 million just on the west.

Where was it for VII on 3DS? VIII on 3DS?

They really wonder why this series is arguably more niche than SMT in the States?

Those titles were published by Nintendo of America and Europe on the west, not Square Enix

And no, DQ isn't more niche than SMT on any place. SMT never even reached 1 million in the west or counting WW while two DQ games were able to do that just with sales on the west without counting japan.

When you don't know whether people didn't buy it because of Sugiyama or playing up his abhorrent views would have made it more appealing to Steam users.
jbhmmm.png

Most people don't even know about this or the existence of Sugiyama.
 

Deleted member 11413

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That's the thing, there was no actual marketing for Persona 5. Persona as a series had gone viral thanks to Persona 4's success with streamers and the like, but Atlus didn't market it. Square at least put YouTube trailers in ad rotations, if nothing else.
DQ11 is a very strikingly pretty looking game that should instantly evoke those BotW-esque vibes on a broad level. I just feel that with a bit more marketing push, and a release date that was a month or two earlier, this would have done far better, even if 100k on PC in a week is apparently okay.
They marketed it to the press and influencers, who then evangelized the hell out of it.
 
OP
OP

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It really helps that DQ is mega profitable just with a Japanese release. They just need to make a decent profit on localization to make it work while. With some of the others you listed the games really needed worldwide success to continue at all.

And it probably is benefiting- 100k launch week will almost certainly end up closer to 300k in PC sales by this time next year. Maybe even better with strong word of mouth. If PS4 sales double that then you are looking at 500k+ for Western release. That's a pretty great number that may even end up with more effort to align launch dates closer for the eventual DQXII.
Definitely, I just hope we are assured localizations going on. Longer tail on PC sales plus the eventual Switch release hopefully keep it going too.
 

rpm

Into the Woods
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Oct 25, 2017
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I'll get around to it eventually. It's a combo of full price + lackluster marketing + poor release timing, IMO. I bought DQIX at launch, probably because Nintendo published it and actually bothered to market it over here.
I don't know what OP expected, but DQ hasn't ever picked up that much steam in the west. It's certainly less popular than FF, SMT, and basically every other big RPG franchise. This seems about right.
 

CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,907
I am impressed with the numbers. No actual news about the game whatsoever other than same release date as consoles. For a series that has never mainlined on the platform it will be a slow grow but was never going to come close to crazy high numbers.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
Funny you would say "criminal", because somethingsomething war crime denial something.

Sorry I wasn't going to bring this up, but suggesting that a videogame not selling very well is "criminal" when the composer is a far-right nationalist who puts out paid ads denying war crimes from WW2 and laughs at homosexual suicide rates in Japan on a talk show is....... pretty ironic.
I mean yeah, it's unfortunate that dude is a xenophobic bigot idiot.

DQXI wasn't made by one man though. It's a beautiful JRPG that deserves to be doing better than it is. We already have to beg and scrape for DQ releases in the west.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
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Oct 26, 2017
11,615
Since everybody seems to be ignoring this very important factor, I'll just post this bit from SteamSpy.

"Steam Spy pulls data every minute, but updates visualizations only once a day at night (GMT+2), so there is no point in refreshing it more often. The data is based on several days samples: from three days for individual apps to seven days for location-based info. It means that Steam Spy is completely unreliable for recently released games."

So not only would 50k-100k for a $60 JRPG on Steam be pretty good values, but the actual values are most likely noticeably higher than that because SteamSpy is a few days behind.

This thread is a good example of why companies don't like to be more transparent about their sales - even good sales are misinterpreted as the game bombing.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
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I know you are joking, but some small part of this is true. The modern anime aesthetics and provocative designs played a role in why games like Persona 5 and Nier Automata did so well. They look cool and flashy in trailers. Dragon Quest doesn't have that, even though there are a lot of cool things in the game. It's also way more of a slow burn.
I'm not joking. Both Persona and Nier Automata have this super edgy badass tone that attracts teenagers and young adults. It's a style that resonates and that includes the sexuality. Sexy designs, liberated sexual tone, themes of breaking out of oppression, very visceral animation/effects/impact, angry, toys with taboo topics, etc. It's exactly the sort of thing that a subset of popular videogames thrive on.

DQXI wasn't made by one man though.
Yeah it's made by hundreds of people who have not said a single word of condemnation about that one man. Deserves nothing.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 249

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Since everybody seems to be ignoring this very important factor, I'll just post this bit from SteamSpy.

"Steam Spy pulls data every minute, but updates visualizations only once a day at night (GMT+2), so there is no point in refreshing it more often. The data is based on several days samples: from three days for individual apps to seven days for location-based info. It means that Steam Spy is completely unreliable for recently released games."

So not only would 50k-100k for a $60 JRPG on Steam be pretty good values, but the actual values are most likely noticeably higher than that because SteamSpy is a few days behind.
So it's probably higher? Honestly with all the extentuating circumstances mentioned in the thread, 100k already sounds better than I thought.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,527
Providence, RI
I'm not sure that matters too much in the end. This is a console game. A PC version is a great bonus but the sales will come from PS4.

It should have released in August though.
 

aiswyda

Member
Aug 11, 2018
3,093
Game is so good. Wish more people liked turn based jrpgs.

I agree with this sentiment but don't think it's entirely to blame. I love turn based RPGS and cannot stand DQ so I won't pick this up. I played DQM Joker as a kid and despised it to the point where it gave me actual migraines playing it. I hate the art style, I hate the character designs, combat design looks boring and uninspired to me (just throw people into a circle and display everything from weird angles), the menu design looks bad--etc. I just don't like it, and I don't think it's bad objectively, but I know other people who like the general genre who have similar hangups about it.
 

Arkeband

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Nov 8, 2017
7,663
I think between PS4 and PC, those numbers are actually pretty encouraging. This is a game that will sell via word of mouth, and when people are over Spiderman and have holiday money, they'll buy this.
 

Deleted member 11413

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They really didn't lol. The press picked up on P5 themselves because of how popular P4 got, in part because of its popularity among LPers, and in part because to this day P4G remains like the one notable PS Vita game.
Sure, but they focused a lot of their marketing efforts at events like E3 and such with closed door showings and the event badges, etc. Part of it was just having a quality game that was easy to cut good trailers for.

Plus the anime teaser released on Crunchyroll.
 

Valdega

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Sep 7, 2018
1,609
Dragon Quest has never been a big series outside of Japan and DQXI doesn't really do much to separate itself from the other JRPGs available on Steam. It's not going to appeal to people who don't like JRPGs so expecting it to push big numbers on PC doesn't really make sense.
 

gordofredito

Banned
Jan 16, 2018
2,992
damn, was really hoping this game would sell well. But with next to no marketing unlike Tomb Raider... yeah.
A shame because it's by far the best JRPG since Persona 5
 

Kudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,909
A damn shame, I hope other platforms make up for the sales but I guess no breakout news confirms next Dragon Quest won't be day and date either.
Hoped something like Monster Hunter World would have happened and DQ had its big break in the West but alas.
 

Kewlmyc

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Oct 25, 2017
26,839
You phrase it as if it's a bad thing. That's not bad at all for a franchise that's always been pretty niche in the west.

On par with the Tales of releases on Steam and better than the Trails of Cold Steel series.
 

PaulloDEC

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Oct 25, 2017
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I'm not sure how much appeal it'll have for people who aren't already JRPG loyalists. Aesthetically it's about as generic as any game I've seen.

100k seems pretty good for a game like that on a marketplace like Steam.
 

Deleted member 11413

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I'm not joking. Both Persona and Nier Automata have this super edgy badass tone that attracts teenagers and young adults. It's a style that resonates and that includes the sexuality. Sexy designs, liberated sexual tone, themes of breaking out of oppression, very visceral animation/effects/impact, angry, toys with taboo topics, etc. It's exactly the sort of thing that a subset of popular videogames thrive on.


Yeah it's made by hundreds of people who have not said a single word of condemnation about that one man. Deserves nothing.
Yes, totally agree. Dragon Quest has none of those things.

As for the bolded, I think you know as well as anyone that things don't really work that way in Japan. I think the content of the game itself speaks for Yuji Horii and the developers in a way that directly contradicts some of the abhorrent things Sugiyama has said regarding LGBT people.

He is an unrepentant bigot and a war crime denier, and people should know that. I don't think it's fair to ascribe those views to Horii or the other developers though.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,340
A damn shame, I hope other platforms make up for the sales but I guess no breakout news confirms next Dragon Quest won't be day and date either.
Hoped something like Monster Hunter World would have happened and DQ had its big break in the West but alas.

Unless DQ embraces voice acting in Japan the next DQ game probably won't be day and date no matter how DQXI performs in the states. Lack of VA in Japanese means that Hori could make changes to the script almost to the last minute. That isn't feasible with VA involved- the script would have to be locked much sooner.

I believe they said the localization effort for DQXI took a solid two years which pretty means that the release of the game in the west was never really in doubt but they just had to wait for it to be finished in order to start the localization process.
 

Derrick01

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Oct 25, 2017
7,289
With the way Square treats their PC versions I am surprised it sold that much. Anyways, I finally bought it and am ready to dive in.

It really is pathetic from the way they crap their japanese games onto steam and call it a day for anything not named FFXV. Even other JP devs/pubs are starting to pass them by when it comes to respectable PC versions. SE even owns one of the better PC porting studios out there (nixxes) but won't let them touch their japanese games.
 

NippleViking

Member
May 2, 2018
4,505
That's actually quite solid for the first Steam DQ RPG.....the DQH games completely flopped on Steam.

XI should sell well enough over the next months between Steam and PS4

Yeah, dunno what you were expecting OP. $60 for the first PC entry in a niche JRPG franchise, with anime aesthetic is a huge hurdle. With the glowing reviews and positive consensus this game has been getting, I feel like it'll have rather long legs - particularly as the price comes down.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,683
Singapore
As for the bolded, I think you know as well as anyone that things don't really work that way in Japan. I think the content of the game itself speaks for Yuji Horii and the developers in a way that directly contradicts some of the abhorrent things Sugiyama has said regarding LGBT people.

He is an unrepentant bigot and a war crime denier, and people should know that. I don't think it's fair to ascribe those views to Horii or the other developers though.
I'm not ascribing any views on the rest of the team at all, just pointing out that they've had decades to speak up but have done nothing of that sort. Sure, it's cultural, but that's a bad culture. It enables bad people when it is seen as socially inconvenient to speak out against bad public views. In the end DQ is just a videogame, while what Sugiyama does is actual political venom. That's why I don't think just because there are other people working on the game it suddenly makes it more "deserving" of anything in particular.
 

Sei

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Oct 28, 2017
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The price might be scaring some people away.

But I can safely say that the game is really worth it. It starts out really slow, but it gets really good later.
 
The art style discussion is interesting, because on paper, having the creator of Dragon Ball front and center for everyone to see seems like the kind of thing that would only help the game. The problem is that a lot of the DQ characters often look like background characters in a filler episode of DBZ, and the player character often suffers from looking rather wimpy and dull. Say what you will about Goku or Vegeta otherwise, but those guys really stick out.
 

Deleted member 11413

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I'm not ascribing any views on the rest of the team at all, just pointing out that they've had decades to speak up but have done nothing of that sort. Sure, it's cultural, but that's a bad culture. It enables bad people when it is seen as socially inconvenient to speak out against bad public views. In the end DQ is just a videogame, while what Sugiyama does is actual political venom. That's why I don't think just because there are other people working on the game it suddenly makes it more "deserving" of anything in particular.
I agree with you, it definitely is bad culture in this regard. Parts of the game are so contradictory to Sugiyama's views that in some way I feel this is their safe way of saying "we do not agree", particularly Horii himself. But maybe I just want to believe that.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,685
It's not just anime aesthetics.

Persona 5 have the advantage of a very stylish and unique art direction on top of the Anime. Dragon Quest doesn't have anything like that to catch people's attention imo

Hell I would not be surprise if people think that DQ is some budget old school FF inspired game.

Wow I really don't know what to say about this...
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
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I agree with you, it definitely is bad culture in this regard. Parts of the game are so contradictory to Sugiyama's views that in some way I feel this is their safe way of saying "we do not agree", particularly Horii himself. But maybe I just want to believe that.
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think Horii shares any of those views. As far as DQ stories go, he seems like someone who truly believes in the good in people. I'm just saying that having progressive views in storytelling in a videogame isn't quite as helpful as telling an vile asshole in the public arena to stuff a sock in it. I totally understand why he doesn't do it. I just think it's unfortunate that he doesn't.
 

Deleted member 5535

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Man, I hope it is enough for Square to be pleased. Don't want them to just stop releasing future entries in the US.

They're not going to stop. I can assure you of this. It's going to come some months later but it'll come as it's happening with the mainlines.

But with how the western side markets and treats it, it won't be on a ww release.

Dragon Quest has never been a big series outside of Japan and DQXI doesn't really do much to separate itself from the other JRPGs available on Steam. It's not going to appeal to people who don't like JRPGs so expecting it to push big numbers on PC doesn't really make sense.

I wouldn't call it popular in that way but that's not true when the game reached 1 million in the last two mainline games with just west sales. That's more than Tales of, Persona (at the time), SMT, Xenoblade (at the time) and other jp titles.

This is all on SE, why did they release the game near three big releases? Also no marketed anywhere.

Because the western side prefer to focus on their western games than japanese games not called FF and KH. :P It's like that if you look at how it always happens.

Unless DQ embraces voice acting in Japan the next DQ game probably won't be day and date no matter how DQXI performs in the states. Lack of VA in Japanese means that Hori could make changes to the script almost to the last minute. That isn't feasible with VA involved- the script would have to be locked much sooner.

I believe they said the localization effort for DQXI took a solid two years which pretty means that the release of the game in the west was never really in doubt but they just had to wait for it to be finished in order to start the localization process.

Yeah, there's that too. Even if somehow the game gains such popularity, it'll need a big time to warrant a ww release.
 

Dyle

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Oct 25, 2017
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Seems pretty good to me given the complete lack of marketing, the series' niche status in the west, and its price tag.
 

Deleted member 11413

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Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think Horii shares any of those views. As far as DQ stories go, he seems like someone who truly believes in the good in people. I'm just saying that having progressive views in storytelling in a videogame isn't quite as helpful as telling an vile asshole in the public arena to stuff a sock in it. I totally understand why he doesn't do it. I just think it's unfortunate that he doesn't.
Yup, completely reasonable and I agree with you. It is very unfortunate.
 

Deleted member 5535

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The art style discussion is interesting, because on paper, having the creator of Dragon Ball front and center for everyone to see seems like the kind of thing that would only help the game. The problem is that a lot of the DQ characters often look like background characters in a filler episode of DBZ, and the player character often suffers from looking rather wimpy and dull. Say what you will about Goku or Vegeta otherwise, but those guys really stick out.

No, they really don't. Much like in Dr. Slump, Cowa, Neko Majin, Kintoki and Sand Land, the aesthetics of the characters, designs and their clothes are very different from each other. You couldn't put those different manga on the same story without it being apparent that they're from different works which you can see clearly on crossovers of DB with Dr. Slump, for example. DQ characters and monsters are very unique with all of the works that Toriyama did in the past and in the franchise itself.
 

Valdega

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Sep 7, 2018
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wouldn't call it popular in that way but that's not true when the game reached 1 million in the last two mainline games with just west sales. That's more than Tales of, Persona (at the time), SMT, Xenoblade (at the time) and other jp titles.

DQX sold a million copies globally across multiple platforms and that took two years. DQIX actually did a lot better and sold over 5 million copies worldwide on 3DS alone. However, 3DS was hugely popular in Japan and that's where the vast majority of sales came from. JRPGs have never been that popular on PC. They've sold enough to justify the porting costs but nowhere near western titles. If DQXI sells 100k units on PC, that's actually really good by JRPG standards.
 

MrDaravon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,983
Would have been great if it didn't come out the same day Spiderman did. My entire youtube feed was spiderman and literally nothing Dragon Quest. It keeps happening.

Yup. If my wife hadn't pre-ordered DQ11 I wouldn't have even known it was out that day (and I beat/liked DQ1-8). I honestly don't think I knew there even WAS a PC version until I saw the DQ11 performance thread on here yesterday.

Honestly all things considered this probably isn't actually that bad for PC sales.