2024 U.S. Election Debate #1 (President Biden vs. Trump) - CNN - June 27th at 9 PM ET/6 PM PT
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From now until the end of the election Biden has to show the same energy as the State of the Union or he's cooked. JFC.
I don't know if cognitive functions have been lost, but I absolutely agree that optics are everything. You can be the smartest person in the room, but if you sound like a doddering old man, no one is going to believe you. Even if what your saying is 100% accurate and sound.
I don't know if cognitive functions have been lost, but I absolutely agree that optics are everything. You can be the smartest person in the room, but if you sound like a doddering old man, no one is going to believe you. Even if what your saying is 100% accurate and sound.
The "no real time fact checking" part came out pretty last minute.
It is worth pointing out that all the people saying that there is no other option and this is just the process(aside from being wrong), literally poll after poll from the American people have shown unequivocally that people are concerned about Biden's age and would like another candidate. I mean do people think that gets better or worse after tonight?
It is the party and Biden that has been telling everyone no, we know what is best and incumbency advantage > all other concerns and then preceded to clear the way for Biden without any real challenges out of fear of losing to Trump. Which paradoxically, out of fear of Trump, the party rallied to carefully curate and micromanage everything, including depres any real primary challengers, which has put them in a position where an untested Biden has ended up probably having the single worst debate performance in American history, and in a way that accentuates all of those concerns that Democrats are just ignoring.
Then he risks making his legacy the next RBG x100 if Trump wins and all the fears about 2025 come true.
Maybe the play is to replace kamala with someone like Newsome and have him become the face of the campaign? Kamala unfortunately is just a charisma black hole. It would at least change the narrative amd settle the minds of those who are afraid he's unfit.
Both parties agreed to no real-time fact-checking.
CNN tried to throw it in yesterday then pulled it last minute. We don't know why--presumably one or both campaigns said no.
CNN tried to throw it in yesterday then pulled it last minute. We don't know why--presumably one or both campaigns said no.
Yes, he did. In a normal debate/election Trump would have absolutely looked horrible. Unfortunately, Biden looked and sounded worse than that for much of the debate and the media is all in on the "Biden is a weak old fool" now. This is not good and there is no way to spin it has anything but a huge mistake and loss. Will Biden recover? Sure he could. There is plenty of time, but instead of talking about Trump's crimes and fitness for office, the media has entirely shifted to Biden being senile. That is going to be a hard thing to shake. This is probably the most important election ever and yeah I am very worried now after last night.
Dem party loyalists in here never learn. Seeing the copium in here is laughable and sad. Please wake up to reality.
It's not too late if they act decisively, which I suppose is the problem entirely.
Biden was already on the ropes going into the debate, it's not as if he was some proverbial fave. And perception is now being extra baked in real time right now.
Just acting like it's gonna blow over and things will be fine by September is exactly what they shouldn't be doing.
There's too much at stake here for all of us to be fucking around on this just dismissing some very real concerns.
It's not too late if they act decisively, which I suppose is the problem entirely.
Biden was already on the ropes going into the debate, it's not as if he was some proverbial fave. And perception is now being extra baked in real time right now.
Just acting like it's gonna blow over and things will be fine by September is exactly what they shouldn't be doing.
There's too much at stake here for all of us to be fucking around on this just dismissing some very real concerns.
Doubt anything could backfire as spectacularly as last night.
If Biden steps aside, its Kamala. Are you fucking kidding me? Whatever else you feel about her actual politics, if we're talking about optics and that is what we're talking about when we talk about replacing Biden, the perception of pushing aside the most highly qualified Black woman in the country for a replacement would be radioactive with big segments of the Dem base. Talking about Newsom or anyone else is a waste of time, if its not Joe its Kamala.
Eh, it was bad but people massively overestimate the effects of these debates, especially so soon after.
Honestly, yes. Kamala has been one of the most inconsequential vice presidents in history. And as you say she just has zero charisma or ability to get people invested in their campaign. I think Newsome could at least bring some much needed energy to the campaign.
Last night was a fucking shit show. Thankfully, people arent thinking about the debate in June when they are at the polls in November.
However, if Biden loses, this moment will be what everyone points to. We have to hope we get SOTU Biden in the next debate and not what ever that was last night.
However, if Biden loses, this moment will be what everyone points to. We have to hope we get SOTU Biden in the next debate and not what ever that was last night.
"Guys I spent at most a few hours thinking of a solution to the presidential campaign based on one debate, I have quite literally never worked on a presidential campaign before but here's exactly what the people involved in that line of work need to do. Again, I only thought about this for a few horus at most, most of my ideas are the equivalent of shower thoughts, but trust me, those thoughts will solve the current problem where people will clearly stop following news cycles after last night specifically."
-Way too many posters ITT.
-Way too many posters ITT.
I love implication that the media is only just now peddling right wing talking points about Biden.
I guess the fear I now have after this debate is that it has raised the worst case scenario in my mind that Biden's mental faculties really could be starting to deteriorate at an unacceptable pace, month to month even, forcing me into considering the prospect of voting into the world's most stressful job someone who is becoming mentally infirm and whom I shouldn't morally want to put in that position. Not to forget his deplorable handling of the Palestinian genocide. Either one of these should be enough to vote someone out of office and now they're starting to pile up.
If not for Trump.
If not for Trump.
Biden deserves his criticism but I'm not as freaked out about what his performance means for two reasons:
1). As Fetterman himself was quick to remind people he performed very poorly in his debate, yet there's no Senator Oz.
2). On CNN's poll only 5% of voters said the debate changed their mind. 81% said it made no difference. To say nothing of the months of campaigning left for Biden to continue to make his case to voters.
1). As Fetterman himself was quick to remind people he performed very poorly in his debate, yet there's no Senator Oz.
2). On CNN's poll only 5% of voters said the debate changed their mind. 81% said it made no difference. To say nothing of the months of campaigning left for Biden to continue to make his case to voters.
What a mess. I cannot understand how the Democrats haven't had an alternative prepared during these last 4 years. The man has been giving signs of his condition for a long time. This added to the Israel fiasco practically gives Trump the victory imo.
It's not the debate itself - it's the fact that Biden is too old / declined is no longer an attack by Trump, but an objective thing millions of voters witnessed
That 5% swing from current polling would make it a Trump landslide. The Blue wall falls easily and PA, MI, WI all go Trump.
5% is massive because it's the middle ~15% of votes who will sway one way or the other
And the same voters who this would sway have the attention span of a goldfish and we have 5 months left so...
I would've preferred Biden not be the nominee, but the time for that has long passed.
Everyone seriously entertaining that replacing the nominee four months out will do anything but harm their chances of winning is not thinking straight.
Everyone seriously entertaining that replacing the nominee four months out will do anything but harm their chances of winning is not thinking straight.
Just wanna say I appreciate you and every other poster making posts like this, none of this is gonna matter once everyone harps on the next thing in the news cycle like Trump's sentencing in two weeks and the following debates
You think people just go after one debate and then just lock in? Those are people who will be swaying right up to the last minute. The point is that for all the talk of it being a disaster it really didn't move the needle and it's not in a way that can't be addressed.
Like did people forget how the US mainstream news machine functions?? Is that genuinely where we're at? Not knowing how US MSN networks work or more specifically,
how they behave during any presidential campaign?
If anything, that's just more evidence that people have short memories.
Wikiwand - 2024 State of the Union Address
The 2024 State of the Union Address was given by the 46th president of the United States, Joe Biden, on March 7, 2024, at 9:00 p.m. EST, in the chamber of the House of Representatives to the 118th Congress. On January 6, House Speaker Mike Johnson formally invited Biden to address the joint...
www.wikiwand.com
The same news networks that praised the State of the Union and posted dark Brandon memes aren't gonna profit or get viewership by posting informed takes about last nights events, least of all Trump's lack of cohesion.
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Like did people forget how the US mainstream news machine functions?? Is that genuinely where we're at? Not knowing how news networks work?
I think it's just that the stakes are so high that they cheer for anything that looks bad for Trump and despair at anything that looks bad for Biden. Which isn't healthy in and of itself, but is an even less healthy thing to spread.
I feel like a lot of people on the left have deeply overcorrected along with the Democratic Party in the face of the internalized criticism that Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.
While Republicans have learned to do both: let the base fall in love, get everyone else to fall in line
Democrats are just trying to beat everyone into falling in line. It failed in 2016 and its looking like a slow moving car wreck in 2024
If Democrats feel like they need to clear the way for a candidate to win a primary(discouraging Biden and most other establishment candidates in 16, now again in 2024), maybe its a good idea to stop and question what you are so scared of and maybe take some time to think if those concerns you have about the preferred candidate in the primary could in fact still be there in the general....
The truth is it always has been to an extent:
- I can have a beer with him, 2000
- It's the personality, stupid, 2004
- Change we can believe in, 2008
etc. etc.
I think it's just sad that as per usual we should be focusing on the terrible things Trump says, but in the end it's nothing new. If you actually listen Biden's words, he's remembering all of these stats and shit without notes but because he has a sore throat it's the literal end of democracy and he's "unwell" whatever that means.
Replacing him is such a stupid idea it's like the only way to guarantee a loss.
Replacing him is such a stupid idea it's like the only way to guarantee a loss.
The concern is that this isn't going to be an isolated incident going forward. You can't just explain away his entire debate performance to the common cold. He's shuffling onstage, increasingly standing around with an unfocused stare, and starting to lose his train of thought. If those things keep happening, it won't matter what attention span voters really have.
It popped up on the MSNBC YouTube feed, you can probably find it there if you look at the recent uploads.
It sounds like you're saying it actually did move the needle but the needle is easily moved so the poll isn't proof of anything.
View: https://youtu.be/31uXekELv7I?t=137
This happened shortly after btw.
"Biden is too old to be coherent" again is a right wing talking point and people peddling that are self reporting that they have very short memories and are being reactionaries.
Yup. It wasn't just the voice. It was the shuffle out - which was America's first impression. It was the complete lost train of thought, and it was appearing weak and frail against someone who spoke strongly and with conviction.
I'm not saying it makes me prefer Trump, but it's clear it did for many fence sitting Americans
I'll worry about that as it happens. I'm not going to just assume this will keep happening because he lost his train of thought last night.
The thing is, there are plenty of examples of Biden being quite spirited and present when he's more off the cuff. Biden's mannerisms weren't so much a sign of his age (although that is how it'll be perceived). But more than that, his mannerisms were the signs of someone struggling to stay on a script.
Get rid of that strategy moving forward.
Americans didn't see that.
They saw the debate. And the debate, the far more important 90 minutes last night, reinforced that he is indeed too old and in a state of decline due to his age.
Yeah I agree. I don't get all these 'let's stick with Biden and hope for the best' posts. This is a wake-up call.
He seemed fine post-debate?
I dunno. There could be a lot of reasons the debate went the way it did. "Biden too old" could be it, but if it was something else (cold, shit advisors, etc.), then it's easy fixable. He also seemed fine in recent interviews.
I do think he will have to address voters prove it was just an isolated incident though, and diminish the damage (regardless of stepping down or not, which I doubt).
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I'm still voting for Biden personally because of his policies. But it's clear based on my threadmarks being overshadowed by how bad his performance was - across every piece of media there is doubt about him being able to make it through another term. I have no idea what this means for the election, but there is a major dislike of both candidates.
If this was in September, this might have cost him the election.
If this was in September, this might have cost him the election.
Sounds about right. I think politics is so polar these days that it won't make many people actually budge, not too dissimilar to how Trump is basically guaranteed a certain amount of votes no matter what he does on his side.
At least the debate happened on this side of Trump's sentencing, because that could take some more pressure off Biden. Perhaps he could even find occasion to do a fact-checking rebuttal to parts of the debate, since CNN was all too happy for the water to be muddied with lie after lie.
I'm glad I only watched like 20 minutes. Biden's team needs a different debate prep.
I honestly wouldn't put it past Trump to just not do the next two debates though. This debate went just about as well as it could have in his favor and having it stand as the only debate could be disastrous.
I've got to just check out of politics for the next four months for the sake of my sanity though.
I honestly wouldn't put it past Trump to just not do the next two debates though. This debate went just about as well as it could have in his favor and having it stand as the only debate could be disastrous.
I've got to just check out of politics for the next four months for the sake of my sanity though.
Americans also saw Trump rambling like a lunatic. I know that feels inconsequential to us because most of us swim in a stew of armchair punditry and pay attention to political media so Trump is a known quantity, but last night was the first time a lot of people saw what Trump is like now in probably years. I'm not going to extrapolate to anything definitive, but I don't want to downplay some of the chatter I'm seeing from people reporting on their friends and family, including my own, who's reaction to Trump last night was "What the fuck???"
So again, clearly news cycles with stop after last night and the only exposure people will have had to Joe Biden by November is this debate specifically and nothing else of note, most especially not anything else that's part of his presidential campaign. Like, no more news. June 27th, 2024. Zero news for Americans to see going forward for four months. Do I have that right?
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If I was in Trump's camp, I'd avoid a second debate. They got what probably could have been the best outcome for them performance wise of Biden. Not enough voters could keep up with the number of lies Trump said and based on the level of reaction online - people only focused on Biden's performance.