He's comprised of nothing but ego.Um, isn't that as applicable to any candidate running for president?
He's comprised of nothing but ego.Um, isn't that as applicable to any candidate running for president?
Helpful list of posters to not take seriously. He literally wins the Dem primary every time he runs and is treated as a Democrat at all times. Literally the only reason to ever comment or complain about this is because you are irrationally hateful.
Not fond of this "Bernie isn't a democrat" debate tbh. It doesn't really matter that much. He votes with the party 95% of the time. Beyond that, the {I} branding for him is more to appear as anti-establishment from a political perspective than anything, but he is, in effect a rank-and-file dem. The label is a part of his brand that he sells to people.
It makes it harder to work with other dems, not to mention it smacks of the type of attention seeking that I hate in politics even if it's useful, but his relationship with the dems is better than Cruz's relationship with Republicans in either case.
I hate this type of talk as much. Literally Bernie's voting record is only a couple percentage points outside the dem norm, and this includes bills he himself has proposed. Completely miss me with this "Bernie is the one true savior" shit.Yeah, I honestly couldn't care less about the Democrat label especially when a lot of Democrats act more like centrists anywhere outside of the United States and I'm sure Bernie wants to distance himself from that. Bernie is as true of a leftist as we've had in the United States.
This is a very cynical analysis of Bernie, but if you're right how is he any different from any opportunist politician? Isn't part of Bernie's brand that he's meant to be better than everybody else.
That's my point. He pretty much is the definition of the opportunist politician and his followers are a great example of how people get when they fall for it. But beneath all that he's a very loud only slightly outside the norm dem.
So we're ignoring the irritation this causes with the party itself? Why wouldn't people not be upset about that? It is that inconceivable that people in the party have different values than Bernie and they have genuine reasons to be angry for his behaviour?
How he performs in the primaries is besides the point.
Didn't we have this conversation weeks ago and you were arguing with me that he shouldn't be loyal to the Dems and that's ok?
Did you read my links?
This is a very cynical analysis of Bernie, but if you're right how is he any different from any opportunist politician? Isn't part of Bernie's brand that he's meant to be better than everybody else.
I hate this type of talk as much. Literally Bernie's voting record is only a couple percentage points outside the dem norm, and this includes bills he himself has proposed. Completely miss me with this "Bernie is the one true savior" shit.
That's my point. He pretty much is the definition of the opportunist politician and his followers are a great example of how people get when they fall for it. But beneath all that he's a very loud only slightly outside the norm dem.
How is he comprised of nothing but ego?
Bernie is still human and there is no perfect presidential candidate, he does have a couple things that bother me, so I think you're reading something into my post that isn't there. Bernie is the best available option of the presidential candidates, that's not a "one true savior" strawman that you are arguing and people are trying to gatekeep based on whether he identifies as a Democrat or not. Elizabeth Warren is really good as well but I am a bit worried about whether she can avoid being baited by Trump, and she's also not quite as leftist as Bernie.
Bernie has done a lot to shift the overton window, and he's been ahead of the curve on some of these issues that a lot of people agree on like free college, medicare for all, raising minimum wage, early supporter of gay rights, getting money out of politics, there are some others.
It's because he hasn't faded into obscurity like some had hoped.How is he comprised of nothing but ego?
Where are the receipts?
Substantiate.
I was arguing with you that your understanding of Bernie, the Democratic Party, and everything above was seriously in error.
As I said before, you might personally be aggrieved that Bernie doesn't call himself a Democrat, but, not to put too fine a point on it, I don't care, and I view having to read the same dumb post about people's dumb feelings six thousand times as a serious imposition. Take it to the Emotional Outbursts OT, this one is for primary discussion.
No politicians are "loyal" so obviously it's fine that Bernie isn't loyal. That doesn't make him different from any other Democrat.
It's because he hasn't faded into obscurity like some had hoped.
I didn't want Bernie to run for awhile but I since have changed my mind.
Even if he doesn't win, I'd rather see progressive voices driving the party towards solid policy positions.
Congrats. The majority of people who did not like Bernie before this post now like him even less. Acting like you can't make a similiar single-sentence dismissal of Bernie is hilarious.Warren was a republican, and is the peak neoliberal "LET ME RUN THE MACHINE, THEY ARE DOING IT WRONG" type of politician, with a history of boneheaded votes, unenthusiastic rhetoric, and oafish understanding of public relations (Warren 1/2020!).
Beto is a child. Kamala is an ice-blooded cop. Biden is a #MeToo pervert and "fuck the millennials".
There is only Bernie, still polling as the most popular politician in AMERICA, and with an uncompromising history of economic justice.
But if all you want is to feel "normal" and don't give a shit about the working class (the majority of which are POC, in case you are a moron), then just stan for the same "third-way" republican-as-a-donkey who would feel bad for barring trans people their dignity, but is completely fine with telling them they need to go back to school or die.
My point is that you're reading "true leftist" out of someone who would vote for all the same bills if they were on the floor as a "Centrist" dem and the "Centrist" dems would likely vote for the same bills he proposed as well. The "true leftist" argument is a stale one to me and just smacks of falling for the hype.
As I posted earlier I don't really care for the whole holding the (I) as him not being a democrat when all evidence to the contrary.
Anyway, what's your measure that Warren is "less left" than Bernie anyway? She has a lower Trump Score than Bernie. If anything she's to the left of him in aggregate.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/
Congrats. The majority of people who did not like Bernie before this post now like him even less. Acting like you can't make a similiar single-sentence dismissal of Bernie is hilarious.
It's gonna be funny if "the most popular politician IN AMERICA" fails in a primary again.
Bernie's problem isn't "woke capitalists".Maybe appealing to an entire generation of americans by giving clear, material reasons and solutions to the shittyness of their lives is not enough for the party's woke-capitalists. Until he has squirting fangirls like Beto, I fear you might be right.
Maybe appealing to an entire generation of americans by giving clear, material reasons and solutions to the shittyness of their lives is not enough for the party's woke-capitalists. Until he has squirting fangirls like Beto, I fear you might be right.
He managed to get Amazon to blink.The bully pulpit is a powerful tool, but he's not Obama with his charisma
MasterofPastures said:Warren was a republican, and is the peak neoliberal "LET ME RUN THE MACHINE, THEY ARE DOING IT WRONG" type of politician, with a history of boneheaded votes, unenthusiastic rhetoric, and oafish understanding of public relations (Warren 1/2020!).
Beto is a child. Kamala is an ice-blooded cop. Biden is a #MeToo pervert and "fuck the millennials".
There is only Bernie, still polling as the most popular politician in AMERICA, and with an uncompromising history of economic justice.
But if all you want is to feel "normal" and don't give a shit about the working class (the majority of which are POC, in case you are a moron), then just stan for the same "third-way" republican-as-a-donkey who would feel bad for barring trans people their dignity, but is completely fine with telling them they need to go back to school or die.
He managed to get Amazon to blink.
The HE IS NOT EVEN A DEMOCRAT crowd are an interesting bunch. The most desirable trait a democrat have, apparently, is that they are a democrat, that they support its infrastructure by paying dues. It's essentialy "party over country" because this critique of him doesn't consider policy at all. Another example is that one of the reasons why people are cooling on Beto is because he wasn't contributing to the DCCC. A lay person living paycheck to paycheck, trying to figure out how to pay rent and buy groceries, they do not care about that. They care about how a politician will improve their lives, not if a politician is loyal to the party. They want to know if the politician is loyal to THEM.
Effectively, Bernie is a democrat. While he doesn't support the Democratic Organization, he fulfills the Democratic Ideal. I think the latter should be valued above all else. After all, we should be supporting the people, not the party.
It's weird that appealing to an entire generation of Americans hasn't translated to any significant electoral victory, unless I missed the significant number of Bernie endorsed candidates who managed to flip R-held seats.
Imagine thinking this about Bernie. Maybe the only candidate running for President who isn't a careerist. Someone who was nothing more than a punchline just a few years ago because he dared to call himself a socialist.I will never vote for Bernie. He's driven by pure ego to even consider running again after last time.
People with an irrational hatred of Bernie will never come around so there isn't much point in seriously engaging them. Luckily they mostly only exist online considering his real poll numbers.Congrats. The majority of people who did not like Bernie before this post now like him even less. Acting like you can't make a similiar single-sentence dismissal of Bernie is hilarious.
All of these words just to say "party over country." I personally cannot understand being annoyed with Bernie because he's not a Democrat. He effectively is already one, but the sticking point is that he's not paying dues to the party and only using it to get the nomination. It literally doesn't matter to me. From what I've seen, this only matters to extremely loud, extremely online liberals.It's a desirable trait for a Democrat to have, not a defining one. Every organisation on Earth does that, if Bernie doesn't want to pay his dues he's welcome to leave. Except he wants all the perks of being a Democrat without the brand, since he needs them more than they need him. It has nothing to do with party over country, the reason we want him in is to work with us to help the countries and have a smoother relationship requires going all in like everybody else. Being a loner is not something which has helped him in his career, and he knows it.
Part of being in a group is cooperation, trust and compromise. You don't simply take what you want from the group, leave then come back and expect everyone to welcome you with open arms. This applies everywhere. He'd be getting grief had he done this with Labor in Australia and the UK, as well. None of their politicians routinely skips out of their party most of the time to run for leadership positions, as far as I know. Including Corbyn, UK's equivalent to Bernie.
One of the reasons Beto's faded is because he's doing nothing of interest to anyone. He's blogging about going on a road trip, which hasn't excited people. The second he enters the primary - all bets are off.
Which are values every voter in the party wants, not simply leftists. Loyalty goes both ways, if they're not in the party why should have a voice. That is the drawback to having no political allegiance, you don't get a say in how they elect their leaders or how they govern. This is why they should join us and make us stronger as a group.
There is no unofficial Democrat standard outside the party, there is no need to because the ideal Democrats already are in the party. However, if Bernie chooses to refine that to the entire party he needs to join in to do it. He doesn't get the final say of what an ideal Democrat is, as he is not a faithful Democrat to begin with. But we'd like him to be.
The people are the party, can't have one without the other in politics. There is no party if no-one joins it, and no people joining the Dems means the GOP don't have competition. The entire reason we have the party is to help the people, as we can do more together than alone. Without that there is fewer connections to politicians who need allies and they won't get any money reinforcements when they badly need it in tough elections where they're outspent 10-1 by the Koch Brothers. Ideals are nice and necessary for politics, but they won't pass bills or get politicians elected by themselves.
Imagine thinking this about Bernie. Maybe the only candidate running for President who isn't a careerist. Someone who was nothing more than a punchline just a few years ago because he dared to call himself a socialist.
People with an irrational hatred of Bernie will never come around so there isn't much point in seriously engaging them. Luckily they mostly only exist online considering his real poll numbers.
The point is that he got a multinational multimillion juggernaut to do something without even needing to pass the bill with his Senatorial seat.
All of these words just to say "party over country." I personally cannot understand being annoyed with Bernie because he's not a Democrat. He effectively is already one, but the sticking point is that he's not paying dues to the party and only using it to get the nomination. It literally doesn't matter to me. From what I've seen, this only matters to extremely loud, extremely online liberals.
At an MSNBC Democratic forum in South Carolina Friday, rival Martin O'Malley accused Sanders of "trying to find someone to primary" President Barack Obama in 2012. "I'm a lifelong Democrat. I'm not a former independent," the former Maryland governor added.
***
"Most Democrats — from President Clinton to Governor O'Malley — were all in to support President Obama's tough reelection campaign," he said. "Others were promoting the idea of a primary challenge, which would have really handcuffed our ability to fire up the base in the run-up to the general election. Senator Sanders fell into the latter camp."
Sanders on several occasions said he saw value in a primary challenge to Obama's left, and four unnamed Obama aides told BuzzFeed News that Sanders was not helpful in the reelection.
***
When Sanders ran for Congress in 1990, Democratic leaders pushed him to run on their ticket, but he said that would be "hypocritical" given his past criticism of the party, according to a Rutland Herald article at the time. When he got to Congress, some moderate Democrats objected to the self-described democratic socialist caucusing with their party. They distributed nasty things Sanders had said about their party in an effort to keep him out, which was only partially successful.
In 1984, then-mayor Sanders "participated in a formal Democratic Party function for the first and last time time in my life" to attend a rally for Jesse Jackson's presidential campaign, he recalled in his autobiography, "Outsider in the House." When Sanders rose to speak in support of Jackson, "a number of old-line Democrats staged a silent protest by standing up and turning around as I delivered my speech," he wrote. "When I returned to my seat, a woman in the audience slapped me across the face."
Has he given any indication of being senile or a fool, or do you prefer having an outed racist fascist moron?Bernie needs to go home. As an Aussie who votes legitimately socialist / green parties in my elections I just wonder what it is about Americans which make you want to keep picking ancient fossils as your serious candidates.
Bernie is just too old. It doesn't matter what his policies are, do you want another senile fool in the oval?
Already we have tensions rising because of Bernie, just wait until he doesn't win the nom.
How is he comprised of nothing but ego?
Where are the receipts?
Substantiate.
Yeah i also hope that hes learned from his shortcomings. If he has then maybe he'll take the nomination.I don't really mind Bernie and I'm ok if he wins but I hope he's kind of expanded his like uh areas of focus since 2016.
You know I like Kulinski but I feel the same way and it's kinda turning me off to him as of late.My problem with Bernie are his diehard supporters. Brogressives like Kulinski and Sirota would rather Kamala Harris or Beto lose to Trump to prove a point.
Warren was a republican, and is the peak neoliberal "LET ME RUN THE MACHINE, THEY ARE DOING IT WRONG" type of politician, with a history of boneheaded votes, unenthusiastic rhetoric, and oafish understanding of public relations (Warren 1/2020!).
Beto is a child. Kamala is an ice-blooded cop. Biden is a #MeToo pervert and "fuck the millennials".
Not conceding when he had mathmatically lost is a pure ego move.
We Obama backers did and were real mad about it. Bernie took even longer and didn't do the concilatory stuff. Hence why a lot of us got real pissed!
This is why people, voters and political alike, don't trust him.
He acts like a democrat in ways that affect me materially. I don't give a fuck about him not respecting the norms and "rules". For me, it comes down to policy, not how he treats the Democratic Party.The sticking point is that joining the Democrats means acting like a Democrat. Respecting their institution, customs, rules
Because the DNC shafted him. The districts overwhelmingly wanted him, and the DNC ignored them in favor of Hillary.We Obama backers did and were real mad about it. Bernie took even longer and didn't do the concilatory stuff. Hence why a lot of us got real pissed!