Wow, some real accelerationists in here. :P
2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Hickenlooper makes it to the debate
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Trust me, I don't feel good about it.
I grew up around guns and being dragged out hunting against my will by my dad and brother. I've had house-shaking arguments with them over things like the DC handgun ban, which they aggressively opposed despite not living in DC or owning handguns. It's a slippery slope blah blah.
I agree with Bernie in the sense that (law abiding) people in rural areas view guns much much differently than people in urban areas. Vastly different life experiences and little desire to understand the other.
We're not getting nearly the same coverage on Harris than Beto. What a shame.
She was on Kimmel last night.
Yeah, it's real flawed. Drastic undersampling of below age 50 voters which is Bernie's best demo.
It's a shame because Warren very nearly gets it. She's almost there. Even though she's more of a believer in the market, I could vote for her without any misgivings. I wonder if, given more time, she'll come around on democratic socialism? She's adopted more of Bernie's views in the last few years, about socializing more and more of the economy...
You can talk about income inequality but it isn't going to be fixed with a band-aid. We'll see.
Accelerationists are just cynics who gotta go fast.
It's easy to talk about income inequality. If I went back in time and asked Dubya what he thought about income inequality he'd probably say "It's bad". Being able to walk the walk is a whole other story.
Regarding Trump, I'm not sure he has Alzheimer's. Multiple people claim he snorts Adderall, which explains:
- Why sometimes he breaths heavy, particularly inhaling through his nose, and energetically and coherently make basic points sequentially. He most recently did this in the White house garden about the border wall where he tediously went through how he thinks the border wall will be received by Congress/Senate, the Supreme court, etc.
- Why he word vomits and doesn't make coherent sentences. When you rebound (eg - stop taking cold turkey) Adderall, you behave like this. Because Adderall is such a strong stimulant, it'll often cut into sleep, and on the rebound your brain is exhausted resulting in things like diction and working memory being greatly reduced.
Anyway, I haven't seen evidence of Sanders declining mentally. There should be some sort of campaign communication for the plan that in the event he does decline...but that's kind of impossible to communicate without damaging your reputation. If Sanders got the nomination and the VP pick was solid, I wouldn't have issues voting for him knowing who would take over.
I'm not sure that's the case. They have a column that specifically mentions voters under the age of 45. I don't get why they didn't clarify the break down further with the other two columns.
Very much agreed on this point. However, there are millions of fools in this country who hold the belief that they're one lucky break away from being a millionaire or billionaire, so how dare you 'disproportionately tax the rich' or 'take away the American dream'.
Unfortunately it's something we get to incrementally, and probably even indirectly.
My problem is that Bernie supporters are supposed to not dish out attacks, even after being attacked. It's strange. And then Bernie supporters are told they're divisive.
Also, one of the criticisms of Bernie was how males dominated the campaign, while he has now hired 70% women for the top roles. No longer matters and he's still heavily criticized. There's no winning with these types because they flat out don't like Bernie. People like Tom Watson or Zerlina Maxwell is who I'm talking about.
You know, that Gravel video just reminded me why ageism pisses me off as much as it does. I constantly see and hear people all over dismiss a candidate on account of the candidate's age, and not because of 'health concerns', either. The regurgitated bogus about getting fresh, young candidates in there to save America from all the out of touch old people. Yet Gravel was ahead of his time. And, in many respects, so is Sanders. I won't go so far as to claim that Sanders is the ideal candidate (I'll vote for any candidate over Trump regardless), and I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of dismissing people on account of 'age', either. I'm just thinking out loud.
Fresh young faces with old tired ideas vs old pasty faces with radical ideas.
The hardcore Bernie supporters (I won't use the term) are divisive. Not just how they talk, but in their expectations. Anything short of believing in all Democratic Socialist ideals makes someone an evil centrist. The fact they push that dichotomy turns people off from the middle all the way to the left. Picking people who push that to the extreme just reinforces Nate's point.
It's all a feedback loop at this point. It's not like there aren't plenty of ridiculous never-Bernie people, many of them on this very board.
The never bernie people are just as insane as the most aggressive bernard boys, there's just never any self awareness that they are being extremely aggressive and divisive while accusing others of the same behavior
I don't think you're referring to me, but if you are, I was for Bernie in 2016 and would vote for him in the GE next year even though I think he's too damn old (same as Biden).
I've been memed. halp.Accelerationists are just cynics who gotta go fast.
Medicare for All and Medicare for America are different proposals. I personally think M4All would be dead once enough people realize it would force them out of their private insurance since at that point support drops to 40%. I think M4America faces a huge uphill battle but letting people keep their private insurance if they want to is a necessary step. Getting 60 votes for either is going to be a huge challenge.
I haven't seen anyone attack a Bernie fan unprovoked. I have seen plenty of Bernie fans doing it though.
Think they're referring to the over-zealous types like Cheebo and Mercury Fred, which I would agree they have a tendency to go over-board, but they would vote for Bernie in a general so that's kinda... Not never-bernie but rather anti.
Eh. It has happened.
You and I probably have a very different definitions of what constitutes provocation
I don't think there are people here who wouldn't vote for Bernie in the general.
There are, however, people who go way too hard on his supporters here, despite agreeing on pretty much... most, if not all of the issues? At this point we're talking about narcissism of small differences and petty playground squabbles.
There are also people who feel bitter over 2016 for one reason or another, and I think they should get over it for 2020 because that's a risk we simply cannot take.
There are, however, people who go way too hard on his supporters here, despite agreeing on pretty much... most, if not all of the issues? At this point we're talking about narcissism of small differences and petty playground squabbles.
There are also people who feel bitter over 2016 for one reason or another, and I think they should get over it for 2020 because that's a risk we simply cannot take.
I'm referring to groups of very online people who are passionate about politics, as I often am in these discussions that everyone assumes is targeting them personally
If you read the comments in an anti-bernie twitter post (like the ones about the sirota hiring yesterday), it's all the same insanity and aggression that those same people accuse all bernie supporters of. Those people don't actually want unity, it's just a smokescreen so they can say "you provoked me into being like this! You're the divisive one! 2016!!" in order to defend their superficial politics and candidate preferences
Ageism is built into who can run for the office. If the founders were so concerned about someone 34 being president they forbid it i don't think people being concerned about and upper limit is unreasonable.
Please name them then.
Being critical of Bernie is very different from being Never-Bernie, which would mean not voting for him in the general if he got the nom.
Medicare for America is a nothing proposal that doesn't actually solve the root issue which makes it worthless. Either the state controls it which gives them unilateral purchasing and bargaining power to keep prices affordable and costs down or we're just in the exact same position we're in now. Where people die because they can't afford basic necessities despite being "insured".
It doesn't actually fix anything that's broken about the system, it just gets a few more people under the broken umbrella without any sort of plan for what to do when it rains.
Maybe so. Only the fans of one candidate seem to jump to conspiracy theories or spread misinformation about other candidates though while ignoring the negatives of their candidate.
Twitter overall is garbage. In the end, I agree it's about who you support. I'm very much a fan of Beto, because I think he's the perfect candidate to beat Trump for a multitude of reasons. But could I easily hop on the bandwagon for Kamala or Pete or Warren? Sure.
It's ok to have preferences. To be a "Candidate X or BUST!" kinda person, especially at this stage in the game, is a bit nuts.
I can't remember the name. There very clearly was a poster who wouldn't vote for Bernie in the general election. You must have missed that a week or so ago. People called that person out.
This is the struggle with his campaign this time around. Bernie isn't the insurgent candidate with long odds who needs to shore up and build a base. He's a front runner and needs a campaign that can build and unify the D coalition. Otherwise someone else will.
Holy confirmation bias Batman!
Come on now, dude(ette). This is a ridiculous thing to claim.
Yeah, for real. If I had my choice it would be Kamala right now but I would 100% vote for whoever gets the Dem nomination.
You know whoever runs Gravel's Twitter is a whiz when you can't tell if this is real or not:
What is the root issue that you don't see it solving? It provides universal coverage in a way that might actually pass. Are you concerned about states not making maintenance payments? Reading through the Full Bill it ensures universal coverage through automatic enrollment and people making 200% of the federal poverty line have no premium or copays with an out of pocket max of $5000 for everyone over 600% federal poverty limit (approx $150,000 for a family of 4)
Even this plan is ambitious to the point I don't think it would be easy to pass but it is far more likely than one that forces everyone off their insurance plans even if they don't want to leave them.
If you don't recognize that there's a strong anti-left contingent in regards to this primary then I question if you're actively paying attention to the online discourse then.
Which campaign that he lost in hilarious fashion is this from?
Only the most shameless white supremacist will actually say yup I vote GOP to stick it to Black people.... but this idea that Economic Anxiety was the driving force of the Trump victory has largely been significantly challenged and frankly in my eyes disproven.
https://www.thenation.com/article/economic-anxiety-didnt-make-people-vote-trump-racism-did/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/us/politics/trump-economic-anxiety.html
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/12/15/16781222/trump-racism-economic-anxiety-study
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...acial-resentment-is-driving-economic-anxiety/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...-working-class-trump-cultural-anxiety/525771/
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...nxiety-myth/BnrFb0K14C62VrPZgKDR6M/story.html
https://theintercept.com/2018/09/18/2016-election-race-class-trump/
Is not thinking Bernie should get the nom being strong anti-left?
You can't explain Trump's victory without bringing up his fake "we're gonna bring jobs back" populism that he reiterated ad nauseum throughout the entire campaign. It created the false perception that he was the "people's candidate" while Hillary was elitistic.
It's why he won WI/MI/PA, but not CO or NV or VA.
It's why he won WI/MI/PA, but not CO or NV or VA.
There are posters who act as vitriolic and as toxic as absolutely possible when it comes to Sanders while giving themselves cover by saying they'd vote for him as the dem nom, presumably while weeping and vomiting uncontrollably while doing so. I don't have a lot of faith in those attitudes. But I digress, the point is that the worst of the toxicity isn't limited to one side at this point or even heavily lopsided like many presume. And if your disagree with my perception, then...*shrug*. Ok.
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