“My EV gave me freedom from the pumps, but took away my freedom to roam” (CBC)

[captive]

I'm an American who thinks the infrastructure of this country is at best, completely pathetic. As for all of the "America is too big and massive"... no, just no.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REni8Oi1QJQ&t=576s

And for major state parks, you can always design transit options from the nearest population centers. Really big attractions like say Yellowstone could even get their own trains from the nearest transit centers, while consistent bus services could be designed for many major national parks. And of course at some point, you'll need a car like even the best designed transit places in the country. Good transit networks have never and never will be about serving every single possible place, just the ones that are convenient to do so between population centers and where there can be natural demand for them such as at the most popular state parks.

My derision of EVs is building so much of the conversation around a sustainable future on them. Car dependent infrastructure at the cost of all other infrastructure is the fundamental problem, not the existent of gas powered vehicles to access more remote places. The focus on EV infrastructure and the conversations around mileages ignore or even worse yet, supersede points about transit networks, high density development, walkable spaces, and the reality that most people don't actually do big road trips that often. EVs end up sucking all the air out of the room for the real solutions to the vast majority of America's problems, and that is Americans fell for car propaganda and rebuilt their cities around car dependent infrastructure and now have internalized that to the point that the US and the people living there will spend a fortune on inefficient, difficult to build, "clean" cars rather than address the problems on any level.

Which I mean, post-Covid, that's not surprising anymore, but always supremely disappointing.

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I knew someone was going to specifically NOT read my post and post that video.

I specifically said we NEED trains cross country, it's entirely possible and really no reason not to do it, other than oil companies and southwest airlines lobbying against it.

What you failed to read and understand is, your not going to build public transportation for bespoke places 50/100/200 miles away from any major city that a high speed rail would connect to. So yea, cars will always be needed.

Take my big Bend example, it's a 5+ hour drive from El Paso and 7+ hour drive from San Antonio. Or some more cool places to visit in Texas, cause that's what I'm familiar with, Caddo Lake, a beautiful lake with bald cypress trees everywhere. Its 3+ hours from Dallas. But there are awesome state & national parks, small towns, and many other places to visit all over the country. It would be a logistical nightmare and waste of money building connecting trains to these places.


Sorry you don't like cars, but it's a fact of life of you want to do anything outside of a city irrespective of if that city has amazing public transport or not, you need a car.

 

[StopMakingSense]

If I had charging at my apartment then a Rav 4 Prime would be the exact perfect vehicle for me.

 

[PandaShake]

My parents recently rented a gas car for a very long road trip. It was decently affordable. My next will be EV, and if I ever do road trip, I would simply rent and skip the station planning. Don't have to worry about wear and tear too.

 

[Bedlam]

Well yeah, the EV infrastructure is still in its infancy. It will get much better within the next few years.

 

[kazinova]

Why the Prius Prime has been attractive to me as a stop gap while charging infrastructure is built out. Could go fully EV for my day to day work commute/local errands and gas for the long trips.

If only there was actually stock and not insane markups :\

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This was the exact reason I thought the Chevy Volt was brilliant and then everyone shat all over it because they didn't understand how it worked. I was infuriated every time that car came up. Electric/green fans didn't like it because they didn't think it went far enough. And all the boomers at work thought it could only go 50mi ever. I've never seen the public get a product so wrong before.

 

[Zeal543]

Drove to Vegas and back from Los Angeles recently, I was ok with it but I definitely wouldn't do it if it was frequent. Charging infrastructure for EVs is constantly improving, I doubt this'll be an issue in a couple years

 

[Electro15]

That is why I'm going with the plug in hybrid route. Next year Volkswagen is releasing a Tiguan plug in hybrid that has a 60 mile range on the battery. That's enough for my daily comute

 

[Hollywood Duo]

Reminds me of that black mirror episode where the lady can't charge her car and has to hitch a ride with a trucker. Definitely a long way to go for infrastructure

 

[KillingJoke]

This is why everyone joining Tesla's network is a great thing. I've done numerous 4 to 6hr road trips with no issues.

Getting use to the 15 - 20min wait is about the only annoyance. But even thats not that big of an issue because you can stretch and get some food. I also havent even hit a receipt over $15 so far.

I know not every location is the same though. My charge stations are always empty but im sure places like Cali is much different.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

This is why everyone joining Tesla's network is a great thing. I've done numerous 4 to 6hr road trips with no issues.

Getting use to the 15 - 20min wait is about the only annoyance. But even thats not that big of an issue because you can stretch and get some food. I also havent even hit a receipt over $15 so far.

I know not every location is the same though. My charge stations are always empty but im sure places like Cali is much different.

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Wait, they're joining the network? I thought they were just adopting the plug standard.

 

[Marshall]

EV cars are one of the worst product in history. They provide no real benefit to consumers while being more expensive.

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That's a take.

 

[Mcfrank]

Wait, they're joining the network? I thought they were just adopting the plug standard.

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Tesla has been beta testing allowing others to use the network for a little while.

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[Jibbajabbawockky]

You can't just ignore that some people live in apartments.

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Yup, that's me! When I was looking at replacing my 2017 RAV4 I started looking at the Prime but then I realized it would need the occassional charge. Living in an apartment in a rural area no less kind of killed that prospect though. At this point I figure when I move and buy a home in the next 5 years or so Toyota will have refined their Prime models more and that would be the time to go for a Plug In Hybrid.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Yup, that's me! When I was looking at replacing my 2017 RAV4 I started looking at the Prime but then I realized it would need the occassional charge. Living in an apartment in a rural area no less kind of killed that prospect though. At this point I figure when I move and buy a home in the next 5 years or so Toyota will have refined their Prime models more and that would be the time to go for a Plug In Hybrid.

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And that's the thing. Nobody is saying anyone has to get some type of electrified car anytime soon or ever. It depends on your individual situation and what you're willing to compromise on. It depends on how much research someone is willing to do. So many factors that go into a decision like this.

For some, an EV makes complete sense and meets their needs 95-100% of the time. For others, it could be a borderline disaster.

 

[Musubi]

Yeah EV's are awesome but at the same time until we get more infrastructure to directly support them some areas of the country they absolutely would just be more of a headache to try to use.

 

[LuckyLocke]

Did a 750 miles trip a few weeks ago with my Tesla and it was a great experience, I will never go back to ICE. I don't understand how no other company has taken the EV infrastructure seriously yet beside Tesla. It's fucking crazy.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Tesla has been beta testing allowing others to use the network for a little while.

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Seems like a no brainer way for Tesla to generate another easy revenue stream so not surprised, just only knew of the plug standard

 

[Carbon]

Did a 750 miles trip a few weeks ago with my Tesla and it was a great experience, I will never go back to ICE. I don't understand how no other company has taken the EV infrastructure seriously yet beside Tesla. It's fucking crazy.

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Tesla is all-in on Electric, while most other car companies are not. Established car companies can sell EVs as almost a hobby until they need it to be the primary thing (either through market forces or legislation). But they all want "someone else" to foot the bill. High benefit, low risk.
Tesla didn't have that luxury. That's why they rolled it out in phases, as they built both their capital and network to support their cars.

 

[lunarworks]

This is when you rent a car and take that instead.

 

[LuckyLocke]

Tesla is all-in on Electric, while most other car companies are not. Established car companies can sell EVs as almost a hobby until they need it to be the primary thing (either through market forces or legislation). But they all want "someone else" to foot the bill. High benefit, low risk.
Tesla didn't have that luxury. That's why they rolled it out in phases, as they built both their capital and network to support their cars.

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I get it but fast chargers are not cheap, there is profit to be made for these companies. Why is no one investing to be an early player and rake in the money down the line?

 

[Darknight]

Owning a BEV (exclusively) in any state that isn't California, is a fool's errand IMO.

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Even in California it's not totally ideal either. The number of times I've been a place that had all the chargers full or had broken chargers is far more frequent than I would think is ideal. I think one problem is that even though chargers around, there's way more people with EV cars that are fighting for the chargers. What used to look like, oh that place has 10 to 20 chargers in the lot and looks like a lot now feels nowhere near enough now that I want to use one.

 

[Psittacus]

I think my favourite thing about this transition is everyone complaining that the car forces them to take a break every few hours like they should already be doing.

 

[Scottt]

"Freedom from" vs "freedom to," the root issue of modernity, distilled to perfection here. Amazing.

 

[jstevenson]

It's not terrible with Tesla given their network.

It can be very challenging with non-Tesla vehicles. Fewer stalls, chargers out of service.

One thing some people don't realize too is that the optimal route structure is basically charging from 10-~80% and then continuing. Charging that last 20% takes a LONG time.

But that also means your range between stops is 70-75% of your car's battery.

Now, this assumes sun belt weather. Move to winter and and you can see why a lot of Northerners use the EV as the "around town" car

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Cool article. Further entrenching the idea that people shouldn't buy EVs yet due to the range, because the ten thousand mile road-trip they're never going to take might need some planning.

 

[Ayato_Kanzaki]

EV cars are one of the worst product in history. They provide no real benefit to consumers while being more expensive.

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The only problem with EV is that we just don't have enough lithium to go 100% EV, and a fleet of hybrid vehicles would apparently generate less pollution overall.
The best solution is still to develop public transport everywhere, work from home whenever possible, and redevelop cities to make cars a luxury, not a necessity.

 

[Chippewa Barr]

We have a full BEV SUV and a PHEV SUV and it's really the best of both worlds.

BEV for 90% of all our travel and the PHEV for long trips or road trips. Plus the PHEV can run on solely battery for local driving - saving your gas for when you wanna drive several hundred km in a day.

 

[Deleted member 51848]

I'm still sad the Sono Sion died. Integrated solar on small lightweight vehicles was an important step.

 

[MisterSnrub]

Range anxiety articles certainly seem to have an agenda, wonder whose? In any case, charging infrastructure doesn't just need to be more widespread, it needs to be faster. I hope they roll out more Level 3 DC stations soon, it'd make me feel better getting one. Automakers also need to do better to lower emissions during manufacture, right now they almost cancel out the point of going electric in the first place.

 

[massoluk]

Yeah, if I'm buying a new car, Prius is up there on top of the list, not EV

 

[Vilam]

I used to relish the freedom to pick up, grab some gear and head wherever my heart desired. Now, I feel like the car is in charge and I can only go where charging stations allow it.

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Succinct summarization why I have zero intent to ever switch to an EV. Until there's a charger on every corner that gets me to full in under 10 minutes (aka never) I'll stick with gas.

 

[DongBeetle]

This is why I drive a Prius

 

[Silent]

I'm a new EV owner, and while I love my car, the platform is definitely going through some growing pains. That's not to say that article isn't embellishing things a bit. You can do road trips with EVs with some planning, but I don't think it should be controversial that you have to think about things with an EV that you wouldn't have to think about with an ICE vehicle, so I totally get the resistance to switching to an EV for that reason alone.

 

[Kernel]

As someone who's been screwed over a few times because a charger that was supposedly working isn't.

Not long after getting my EV we took a trip and specifically booked a certain hotel because it had L2 charging.

As it turns out the charger was vandalized a few days before but no one on PlugShare visited there and made a note.

I wouldn't make this mistake now, but it never occurred to me the charger might be out. I've never had a road trip turned upside down because a gas station was out. It's rare that a pump is out.

Another problem is that on busy routes, chances are you're going to wait for a charger. Might be less of a problem for Teslas but when you've only got a few chargers to choose from and you've got a guy sitting there for an hour so you know the dumbass is charging to 100% and he's probably putting along at 7kw now and holding everyone else up.

Depends on where you live but it's getting better overall.

So road trips in an EV are iffy but for they can't be beat for commuting.
Especially if you have free charging at work (no employer would give you free gas)

 

[Wesker]

I have an ID.3 and I love driving it. I have to use public charging infrastructure and it works fine, not great but fine.

The advantage is, that my girlfriend (she drives a Renault Zoe) and I have a dog.
So we drive to the charging station with the dog, go for a walk and come back. We're not losing time essentially.

Same with longer trips, we charge the car, take the dog for a walk, go to the toilet and keep driving. 15 to 30 minutes stops are totally fine in my eyes.
Saying that EVs are not for longer trips is an understatement imo.
Although one might argue that 277km is not a long trip ...

 

[cameron]

Rentals are perfect for 15k km roaming.

 

[SanTheSly]

If I ever get a car, I'd want it to be an EV but on the long-term scale is there any indication of how they're going to mitigate the issues with the ecosystem?

Obviously more charge points will come with time, but is there realistically any way they can either eliminate or lessen the need to stop so frequently to recharge, and for so long?

Genuinely curious, I'm clueless about most car related things.

 

[Frankfurter]

If I ever get a car, I'd want it to be an EV but on the long-term scale is there any indication of how they're going to mitigate the issues with the ecosystem?

Obviously more charge points will come with time, but is there realistically any way they can either eliminate or lessen the need to stop so frequently to recharge, and for so long?

Genuinely curious, I'm clueless about most car related things.

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Realistically speaking that way is already there. For example, the Ioniq 6 long range model has a realistic range (80% to 10%) of about ~250 miles and assuming you have an HPC it takes 18 minutes to charge it back to 80%. Dunno about other guys, but stopping every 3-4 hours is very much what I would do anyway (e.g. peeing).

+ you'd not be thinking about where to charge. You'd just tell the car where you wanna go and it'll add necessary chargers on its own.

 

[Dust]

Unless they sort out infrastructure and charging times, EV is not an option to me - just a giant meme.

 

[SanTheSly]

Realistically speaking that way is already there. For example, the Ioniq 6 long range model has a realistic range (80% to 10%) of about ~250 miles and assuming you have an HPC it takes 18 minutes to charge it back to 80%. Dunno about other guys, but stopping every 3-4 hours is very much what I would do anyway (e.g. peeing).

+ you'd not be thinking about where to charge. You'd just tell the car where you wanna go and it'll add necessary chargers on its own.

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Gotcha, that makes sense, thanks.

I suppose it's just that cognition change of "I'm stopping for 20ish minutes to charge" instead of the current system whenever I'm in a car going somewhere, where nobody wants to stop at all and if you DO stop for a break you'd better pee as fast as you can to get back on the road because you want to get somewhere as fast as possible.

It'll probably actually be beneficial for people to take slightly longer breaks more frequently when driving. If only for rest, but also maybe to just calm down a bit too.

 

[Sabre]

If I ever get a car, I'd want it to be an EV but on the long-term scale is there any indication of how they're going to mitigate the issues with the ecosystem?

Obviously more charge points will come with time, but is there realistically any way they can either eliminate or lessen the need to stop so frequently to recharge, and for so long?

Genuinely curious, I'm clueless about most car related things.

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Improved charging speeds are the answer. Already Kia's and Hyundai's newest models offer a maximum charging power of 350kw, which means 10-15 mins charge to full. And this will further improve in the future with solid state batteries.

This does require a broad network of chargers capable of that kind of charging speeds. Currently, it's mostly Tesla's chargers which reach the 200-300kw range.

 

[Phoony17]

Unless they sort out infrastructure and charging times, EV is not an option to me - just a giant meme.

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That makes no sense. Why is EV a giant meme?

 

[Dust]

That makes no sense. Why is EV a giant meme?

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I am not planning a trip or long business drive with charging station or "will I make it" mentality in mind. Unless infrastructure is a common as gas stations with instant charging, I don't care about EV. I feel like the concept is being pushed while the world is not ready, while it should be opposite.

 

[Phoony17]

I am not planning a trip or long business drive with charging station or "will I make it" mentality in mind. Unless infrastructure is a common as gas stations with instant charging, I don't care about EV. I feel like the concept is being pushed while the world is not ready, while it should be opposite.

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Instant charging? You can't "instant" refuel your car either.

In most CBD's and populated suburbs it is ready. For anyone that can charge at home and not taking epic road trips it's ready.

 

[Dilly]

I am not planning a trip or long business drive with charging station or "will I make it" mentality in mind. Unless infrastructure is a common as gas stations with instant charging, I don't care about EV. I feel like the concept is being pushed while the world is not ready, while it should be opposite.

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You expect there to be immense investments in charging equipment without having cars on the road that need it?

 

[Angst72]

Tesla has been beta testing allowing others to use the network for a little while.

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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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In Europe Tesla SuC is (mostly) open for all vehicles. I've been charging my Audi there frequently and it works like a charm. Althoug I still prefer Ionity due to cost per kWh and charging speeds.

 

[thepenguin55]

I've not done super long road trips in my Model 3 but I've gone from Cleveland to Detroit and from Cleveland to Pittsburgh which are probably about the longest trips I would want to take in it. Generally speaking I found both trips to be fine but they did require extra planning. I will say Supercharger stations are generally much better maintained than other charging stations and depending on where you live aren't too hard to come by so I do think "range anxiety" is far less a thing with Tesla.

Hopefully the Supercharger network opening to everyone will motivate these other stations to be better essentially as most of these stations will now be even more directly competing with supercharger stations. Generally speaking, even having to drive a little further to a Supercharger will serve you better than going to whatever other charging station.

 

[Neo C.]

By the time I'm on the market for EV, the infrastructure shouldn't be an issue anymore.

 

[Animus Vox]

I've definitely had my fair share of chargers not working despite their online status but a new fear that unlocked for me was my EV itself bugging out and refusing to charge. I didn't have enough juice to go back home on a trip and somehow not unplugging an inoperable charger correctly put my car in some weird state where it'd refuse to charge at all. I panicked and visited 3 more stations all rejected by my car. Of course this was a late Sunday afternoon so I couldn't just take my car to a local shop.

As much as I love my EV the anxiety that comes from owning one is real

 

[Psittacus]

I feel like the concept is being pushed while the world is not ready, while it should be opposite.

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You better get used to that feeling because there are a lot of things the world isn't ready for that it's not going to have a choice in soon.