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PlayStation Classic announced, coming in December for $99, preloaded with 20 games
- Thread starter TheDestructiveSquirrel
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It's not just the music. The cars themselves (and some of the race tracks) are licensed too
For everyone saying Wipeout, we are very very unlikely to get Wipeout. That is music licensing to blame. WO2097 and 3 both have tons of licensed music, plus a Designers Republic partnership. Not gonna happen, sadly.
Right, but would that include if a console has BC and if not, why not? Like PS1 games worked on PS2 because PS2 had PS1 HW so did Sony pay royalties/do deals again for all these licensed music games in that situation? Could be a deal breaker for many if the biggest and best games are excluded from being considered for the remaining 15 slots due to music licensing.
If you're licensing car brands and real-life products for a game, you have to enter a licensing agreement with all involved parties to include those things. The licensing fees only cover the initial years of distribution; if you want to redistribute that game many years later, you have to renegotiate and pay for all those licenses again.
A new GT that stands to sell a couple million copies on its own can justify those costs; An old one that is part of a larger product, whose inclusion probably isn't a make-or-break deal that would single-handedly sell an additional million units that product wouldn't otherwise, probably cannot justify those costs.
It's really not that hard. Are they selling consumers new copies of the actual product that contains the licensed elements? If not, no. If yes, yes.
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It would be cool for people to rediscover charming games like Tail Concerto and Tomba. Indie devs being inspired by those would be more fresh than the oversaturated offerings of Metroidvania and Zelda wannabes..
Why name TR when there's TR2 or TR4, which are more polished versions of the TR gameplay?
MGS1 is still an excellent game on his own.
Alundra is as good as Zelda. etc... etc...
You clearly has some bias here.
No because they're not new releases when you use a PS1 disc on a PS2. A digital version on a new piece of hardware (you're technically rebuying the games with the PS Classic) would *probably* require new licensing. Every deal is different obviously.
I rolled my eyes out of my head when he wrote that FFVII has aged terribly compared to VI.
All three Jet Moto games have brand advertising in them (Mtn Dew, Butterfinger, K2, Slim Jim, etc) which could be a problem, but the first two games are currently available on the PSN store.
I'll never understand why people think FFVII hasn't aged well. I've went back to the game so many times over the years, and it's still amazing to play. Does it just come down to people not liking the blocky, chibi character models?
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What if Sony wants to release DLC packs or a 2nd version of the PS Classic?
Like, in this one you get Tomb Raider 1 + Crash 1 + Spyro 1, etc.
Next year we get Tomb Raider 2 + Crash 2 + Spyro 2, and so on.
Just wondering.
Well this doesn't bode well. I just can't imagine such a classic console without the likes of GT. A lot of the biggest PS1 games might be excluded due to prohibitive re-licensing costs/logistics.
Will be interesting to see how many games that make it in have anything licensed in them.
Yeah, we're not getting Xenogears or Vagrant Story on this thing.
You must not be a racing fan. It's been a huge issue with racing games across platforms forever. It's the reason why many racing games have been pulled from sale digitally especially on PC, and why you don't see many on Xbox BC, even first party. Racing games are licensing nightmares, even locales that mimic actual places can have licensing attached.
Even recently Microsoft announced pulling Forza Horizon 2 from their digital marketplace.
Bushido Blade would be a neat early PS1 title to finally try, especially considering that the Classic comes with two controllers.
As for racing games without licensing issues?
Wipeout
Crash Team Racing
Ridge Racer 4
Done. Covered.
As for racing games without licensing issues?
Wipeout
Crash Team Racing
Ridge Racer 4
Done. Covered.
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Sorry I didn't mean it in that way. I have a soft spot for the series as a whole (RR1 & RRs were my most played games when they came out for ps1/psp) but after replaying through the ps1 games again this year I felt R4 held up much better and specially when it comes to content. It also had the added benefit of including RR1 and it's 60hz prototype on the 2nd disc. I feel sometimes people forget how the cars controlled in the early games compared to later in the series.
In fact, we shouldn't be expecting many jRPGs at all. All the good ones are multi-disc affairs that would require more storage space than Sony might not be willing to fork out for.
Still, holding hope that Legend of Legaia makes it in. Don't think that one has ever been properly re-released digitally.
I'm not sure how accurate the 45% figure is but if it's correct I'd assume it means 45% of the size on each dimension, so the PlayStation Classic would be about one eight of the overall volume of the original PlayStation.
The publisher of that game went under, so there's no chance it'll happen. Even if they'd been alive though, I don't think there'd have been a chance, since it wasn't exactly a popular game. It had a fun concept but many of the vehicles were really awkward to use so you probably got a lot of the value of the just from playing the demo.
Are they worth it though, realistically? How many people do you think wouldn't buy this machine without Gran Turismo but would buy if it with Gran Turismo?
Some of those games will have licensing issues as well. Colin McRae definitely would, and Wipeout 2097 and Wipeout 3 would have music licensing issues.
You're right that there won't be only one racing game. The genre was too important to PlayStation, especially in Europe. There'll definitely be at least two, maybe more, and since the one that they've revealed so far was from slightly later in the PlayStation's life I think that they'll probably also have chosen one from early on - maybe the original Wipeout or Destruction Derby since those were of immense importance to the PAL launch.
Others have explained the issue already, but for some idea of the effect it will have, look at the range of PSOne Classics on PSN and see what's missing. The reasons why they're missing are usually licensing or the publisher having gone out of business. The most obvious omissions are the Gran Turismo games, Tony Hawk series, and all the licensed sports games (FIFA/Madden etc.), plus movie games (Spider-Man and so forth) and wrestling games.
It's not that some of the biggest games might be excluded...unhappily, some of the biggest games will be excluded - no doubt about that. The PlayStation has enough quality games without licensing issues to put together a machine with 20 good (or at least historically significant) games. That also means that since Sony can do that without worrying about licenses, Sony almost certainly aren't going to worry about licenses.
The same situation would affect a mini N64. A decent portion of its library were licensed games in some form, such as Goldeneye, the Star Wars games, and the WWF and WCW games, and the Rare games have the licensing difficulty of being owned by Microsoft.
I was/am a huge racing fan in the PS1/2 era especially. I just don't know much about the modern issue of re-licensing. Surely this sort of thing would/should be worked out though? Going by your post, I guess not.
Only since I read mention of licensing difficulties by someone at Microsoft re their BC efforts very recently did I become away of it. This was never something I thought about as a console gamer. PC I don't much about at all to be honest.
Absolutely biased, despite having primarely used Playstation consoles for over 2 decades.
Alundra is a niche game, and quite difficult too. Chances are slim it appear. I wouldn't rate it as high as LttP, myself.
TR2 and 4, I have zero desire to play those today. I think TR1 is still the best one of that classic TR lot, with the best difficulty balance and level design. I mentioned TR2 as a possible candidate to appear though, but beyond the first half I never thought it was as much fun.
MGS1 is a classic but its just horribly dated and in dire need of a remake. Especially without analog controls its going to be tedious. FFVII is the same story really, classic game but it didn't age well. The PS1 is one of my favourite consoles, having played over 100 games on it but I don't think I would play many games today still. Perhaps the likes of Einhander, Vagrant Story and Chrono Cross, which won't appear on the Classic. And Vagrant, well, I've been dreaming of a remake with a more snappy interface for ages.
I mean, how many SNES classics games aren't dire of a remake? Are you talking about that PSone dosn't have truly classic games or the ones that "will" appear on the classic conole won't be as classic as SNES ones?
You can't complain about Tekken 3 not being online and then don't consider that Super Street Fighter Turbo II made it on the SNES classic lineup. Is the original Mario Kart SNES game not dated at all? Starfox 2? I neither have the desire to play Mario Kart on the SNES. Is F-Zero really a much better classic than Wipeout 3 or 2047 or even the first one?I personally think that while F-Zero a cool futuristic racer game, it was since very much improved by other, specially in the PS/N64 era. Even if you, personally, have zero desire to play the later TR games, dosn't mean they are, aregueably better games than TR1 or that they are very unique classic games that a lot of people enjoy these days. Also MGS1 is perfectly playable with digital controls, it was really made with those in mind and not for that is any less of a well designed game.
It seems to me that "the games I want won't appear on this classic console" which is a fine complaint is very different as "PSone dosn't have timeless classics and they are really dated".
SF2 Turbo was a useless addition to me as well, as I also have Anniversary which contains the CPS2 rom. There have been far better versions of Turbo since. I never play Mario Kart as well. but its a decent 2p romp. F-Zero is actually surprisingly easy on the eyes, but not one of my most played SNES Classic games. Starfox 2 was a fricking cool addition because it was a cancelled game, yet Nintendo acknowledged it and put it up there in finished state.
I am aware the PS1 has a lot of games that hold up well, but I fear those aren't going to appear. I seriously doubt we're going to see Einhander, Alundra, Valkyrie Profile or any niche game at all. The games that defined Playstation aren't the games I would play nowadays. Which is why i'm still conflicted about buying it or not.
With SNES Classic I went Hackchi and put the likes of SoM3 and DKC2 on it. I wonder how this is going to pan out with the PS Classic and its storage as there need to be CD-ROM dumps on there.
Personally, I barely played SNES classic at all, and while adding Starfox 2 is a cool move, a game that is capped at 20fps is a hard sell for me in 2018. But I wouldn't say that SNES dosn't have a fuckton of legendary classics and most of them didn't make it on the classic, I would rather play Terranigma that Zelda:Alttp and I would go to say it aged way better, but here we are.
Yes, PSone classic will have a fuckton of missing gems that weren't that popular, but I think this is true for any collection we will have. Personally, RRT4 is already a great addition that I wasn't expecting.
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Yes, indeed, some PS1 games are still very much playable today:
- Gran turismo 2 (but license nightmare)
- Metal gear solid (gameplay is still solid and graphics are still very good even now but Konami so...)
- Street Fighter alpha 3 (that great SF gameplay)
- Castlevania Symphony of the night (still a reference)
- Legacy of Kain, Soul reaver (I fell like it has never being remade)
- Tenchu : Stealth assassin (hard, but gameplay is still tight)
I feel that Sony are not giving the full list yet cause they are sorting out license problems and making deals with some publishers.
One of the problems with this is that quite a few of psx classics have been remastered and can be played in a much better way on modern consoles:
Prapper the Rapper
Crash trilogy
Final Fantasy VII
Resi 1&2
Wipeout
Spyro
Medieval (if its still coming)
Is there any unreleased game they could put on this a la Starfox 2? Would make it a lot more enticing.
Also I hope this is "upgradeable" the way the nes and snes classics are. Although I think storage will be an issue if it is.
Prapper the Rapper
Crash trilogy
Final Fantasy VII
Resi 1&2
Wipeout
Spyro
Medieval (if its still coming)
Is there any unreleased game they could put on this a la Starfox 2? Would make it a lot more enticing.
Also I hope this is "upgradeable" the way the nes and snes classics are. Although I think storage will be an issue if it is.
Well Wipeout is an exception for me. I love Omega especially in VR but 2097 with its art direction, courses and soundtrack is still something special. But will it even contain that licensed music? But if its music is untouched I would applaud 2097.
For the rest I agree. PS1 FFVII is archaic as fuck. The PSN release is kind of doable since you can speed up etc. Resi 2 remaster, I mean remake, will be a big deal early next year, REmake is on PSN as well. Crash Trilogy were pretty good remasters/remakes I thought. Spyro is coming.
In the case of unreleased software, RE 1.5 would be grand. But its not realistic. Starfox 2 was a much smaller game and pretty much finished already. The lot of cancelled PS1 games were either shitty PC games (Daikatana, EWJ 3D etc) or moved on as PS2 projects (ICO, Onmusha, Soul Reaver 2 etc).
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I believe they have to be nearing production on these right now to ship a big amount come December. I think we're not seeing the rest of the games because they know a lot of people are going to be unhappy with the final list. So they're hoping to get a lot of hype motivated pre-orders and then hope not that many people cancel them later.
Its all good. I do concede that rr4 is the "better game." I just feel that with these nostalgia compilations the better game doesnt always win and shouldn't always be included. Take other games for example and you can see that maybe a more popular one can be included instead of a technically better one. For example resident evil 1 over 2. 2 is the better game but 1 is more iconic. Anyway I digress. Of course I would prefer to have them both.
100% impossible.
If the system comes out in 3 months, that means it's already in production, which means the final game list was decided many many months ago.
Games are just roms. Can't they upload those in the flash drive at the very last moment?
Anyways. Other than the very important list of games, what is going to be a deal breaker for me is 50hz for the European model. No more that 50hz abomination Sony, nope. I am kind of worried since they actually gave us some never seen before horrible 50hz games 'up-framed' to 60hz for some PS2 games on PS4. Ugh.
There's been a lot of good suggestions for games and I would also like to see GTA2 on there as well. That game was such a blast
LOL
You can't be talking seriously?
You might get away doing this if it was a digital service, but when you are manufacturing a device with many parts, you have to have everything ready plenty of months in advance. Also, the boxes/packaging is made even earlier than the actual product, so if the PS Classic box is going to have pics of the games, then the list had to be finished at least 6 months ago.
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If they can only do Tony Hawk without all the original music, I'd rather they just put a different game on. It just wouldn't be the same.
Only for Twisted Metal 3 & 4, Sony can't use them, but for 1 & 2, they easily can.
TM 2's the superior TM game between the four, anyway.
I don't think we'll know until we find out what the hardware and software it has. It's possible Sony could have taken extra measures to prevent hacking
Yeah, I think TM2 is a lock. It's probably the game I'm most confident in being added to the system out of everything else. 1st party, well regarded, and fills one of the multi/co-op slots.
I think that most people will want TM 2 more so than Small Brawl. It's the most popular TM game besides TM: Black & TM: Head-On.
And both TM 2 & TM: Head-On were "T" rated games. Only TM: Black was a "M" rated game.
I thought 989 Studios (TM3/4 developer) was part of Sony and created just for certain franchises
They were. I was referring to licensed music that both TM 3 & 4 had carried within them.
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