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Naomi Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena Williams meltdown (Read OP)
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If that's the case then why did Serena claim to the umpire that he stuck up his thumbs as encouragement instead of coaching her? Kinda odd if she didn't see him right.
Or, you can acknowledge that all of the systematic racism etc. is real, and still think Serena behaved poorly during the match and needlessly escalated, you know? Both of these things can be true at once. I was rooting for Serena myself (as an "older" woman often facing younger upstarts in my own sport, I can relate xD) and I could sympathize with her thinking the first penalty was unfair. But when she smashed the racket and then started contesting that lost point, I just kinda cringed.
All that said, the crowd booing wasn't Serena's fault and that was really the worst part of it all IMO. Serena was classy during the ceremony, but the crowd just ruined the moment for Naomi and that sucks.
The black american speeding ticket scenario was an analogy, not a reference to Serena. Serena has had lots of questionable calls by umps throughout her career. Part of that is likely due to implicit bias. And an umpire doesn't have to have a history of racism or be american to exhibit such bias.
I agree. I'm not arguing that by the letter of the law, the call was incorrect. Coaching just seems to be something you can all the time if you look for it.
Again, agreed. I'm not saying the call was incorrect or that it wasn't her fault.
Probably not, but I can understand where she was coming from. I actually don't even think she lost concentration. I think she was just outplayed.
YESSS!!!!
Idk. A meltdown, to me, connotes being completely irrational, unreasonable and overwhelmed by emotion. She was upset but behaved fairly reasonable to me.
Why didn't Serena deserve that? She broke the rules. She then started being arrogant and breaking it again thinking she'd get away with it.
Post match, they showed a video of her while the coach was doing the motion and it appeared she only saw the tail end of it with his thumbs up. She may have just seen the thumbs up.
He's taking his best guess given what happened. He didn't realize Serena saw him. But Serena thought he was just giving a thumbs up, which seems pretty reasonable given the motion he did.
The only thing that is at odds is the "I don't cheat. I'd never cheat. I'd rather lose. I'm a mother" thing with the coach saying "Yeah I did it. Everyone does it" with a dash of It's not cheating if you don't get caught.
It's like someone copying someone's work during a test, getting caught, and then saying every in the class does it. By definition you were still cheating lol.
Now clearly it seems to be that Serena wasn't looking anywhere near him, so being shocked at the call with the general culture of coach signalling, it isn't surprising that Serena was a little irate.
It's like someone copying someone's work during a test, getting caught, and then saying every in the class does it. By definition you were still cheating lol.
Now clearly it seems to be that Serena wasn't looking anywhere near him, so being shocked at the call with the general culture of coach signalling, it isn't surprising that Serena was a little irate.
well her mom is Japanese so would'nt that bow still seem a little weird to even to her? I doubt it would be lol worthy to her mom tho, the family lives in South Florida right now, even if she was born in Japan the bowing is excessive.
Jesus, Serena got her say in, the chair umpire let her vent without penalizing her, and then SHE. JUST. KEPT. GOING.
Learn when to let it go. She even gave him the whole "you'll never work in this town again" kind of line.
https://streamable.com/fmcqi
Learn when to let it go. She even gave him the whole "you'll never work in this town again" kind of line.
https://streamable.com/fmcqi
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As in the person whose culture is being followed in a weird way would probably have the most reaction. Like if someone was trying to emulate something poorly from french culture and a french person goes "lol wut is that".
Nadal gets coached every point (common with a lot of other players too) and him and Djoker take way too much time on every serve (all of which are against the rules) and they both take some suspicious ass injury timeouts.
This umpire is a disgrace.
If you are going to call this stuff then be consistent. Don't make a point of starting during a US Open final.
The umpire should never be the story.
Hope this fuels an epic Serena revenge tour next year.
This umpire is a disgrace.
If you are going to call this stuff then be consistent. Don't make a point of starting during a US Open final.
The umpire should never be the story.
Hope this fuels an epic Serena revenge tour next year.
Definitely wasn't a good look for Serena but I still don't think it merited a game penalty.
How is this even close to what happened? Osaka isn't the one who was being booed and once the win was actually decided, Serena treated the winner with respect. If she's somehow responsible for the behavior of the crowd, then wouldn't that behavior be positive?
It kind of just seems like you're determined to shit on her for every aspect of this. Say you dislike her behavior or think she took it poorly, okay, but she showed good sportsmanship toward the winner, which is what that word generally means unless we're suddenly expecting athletes to all like refs and umpires now. Going to be a really short list of acceptable displays of sportsmanship in that case.
yeah you are right
I totally agree with you and looking at how it is being reported in Japan https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20180909_10/
no special tidbits about drama and that is how it should be.
this will not be the last time we see Naomi winning a slam
How the hell is Osaka supposed to know who these people are booing anyway? If they are booing while she receives the trophy, I think she's going to assume it's directed at her. The fact she's literally in tears suggests she's not just waving it all off.
I don't think congratulating or hugging your opponent is enough to make up for the fact Serena's behaviour brought the whole event into disrepute leaving Osaka with an angry mob booing her in what should have been the moment of her life.
I was watching the Japanese broadcast, and they were praising Serena for consoling Naomi and telling people to stop booing.
Said it was good sportsmanship.
Said it was good sportsmanship.
Serena is a fucking legend, the GOAT. She also fucked up today. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
It's really bizarre that people who are critical of her outburst are getting blanket accusations of being long term haters coming out of the woodwork. And the virtue signalling lying beneath these accusations is even more gross.
She is the ultimate, ferocious, uncompromising competitor. Those mental attributes which made her an absolute legend are naturally going to result in some ugly episodes as her star eventually wanes. We can be understanding of that while also calling a spade a spade. She fucked up, as people do. Don't need to pillory her for it, but let's not pretend she has been maliciously and unfairly targeted here either. Her actions during the presentation showed that she is still classy and kind hearted with genuine respect for the game and her opponents, but in the heat of the moment she dun goofed.
As an aside, I also fucking despise the logic that the rules should be applied differently or less stringently in a final. The fuck?
It's really bizarre that people who are critical of her outburst are getting blanket accusations of being long term haters coming out of the woodwork. And the virtue signalling lying beneath these accusations is even more gross.
She is the ultimate, ferocious, uncompromising competitor. Those mental attributes which made her an absolute legend are naturally going to result in some ugly episodes as her star eventually wanes. We can be understanding of that while also calling a spade a spade. She fucked up, as people do. Don't need to pillory her for it, but let's not pretend she has been maliciously and unfairly targeted here either. Her actions during the presentation showed that she is still classy and kind hearted with genuine respect for the game and her opponents, but in the heat of the moment she dun goofed.
As an aside, I also fucking despise the logic that the rules should be applied differently or less stringently in a final. The fuck?
Eh, the meltdown was major news, like it or not. Osaka winning US Open would not have been thread worthy on its own. And to say it "just" cost her a game is disingenuous as the second set was much closer than first. One game could absolutely have gotten her the set.
if coachng is banned, why not make coaches sit in an enclosed space out of view of the players.
There is likely no thread without the Serena meltdown, ERA isn't that big on tennis.
Why do they even ban coaching in the first place? Seems pretty weird when so many other sports allow coaching during a game.
Sports are inherently an entertainment product. No one came to watch the refs. People came to watch the athletes play.
Especially in a finals match, people don't wanna see the refs get involved too heavily because it's boring. It happens in literally every sport for a reason.
Sexist? Pfft how about fuck no. Plenty of male players get repeatedly pinged just the same, including escalation through tennis rules.
Disgusting booing at the ceremony too. Fuck that part of the crowd.
Disgusting booing at the ceremony too. Fuck that part of the crowd.
In women's tennis coaching is allowed but it requires you specifically ask for the coach and they come on court, etc. If you could just coach from the stands there would be no point for having that procedure.
I'm in favor of no coaching period. Once you get on the court it should be you alone. Men's tennis has this - coaches can't come to court for pep talks like in WTA.
I believe when you leave the court for medical issue then you are allowed to talk to coach, but I'm not 100% sure.
Fuck this bullshit. Having a completely different set of a rules for one particular game ruins the integrity of the sport.
Yeah I heard you the first time. I still think it's a junk argument based on a false premise and emotion and not reason.
Serena increased the referees involvement fivefold by blowing up.
wait until you find out that the men cant have coaches on court throughout the year.
I don't think Osaka deserves what happened here, to be clear. I just disagree with you in that I don't think Serena did either. Osaka deserved a chance to win without anyone questioning the validity of it -- which would have happened, to some degree, whether Serena reacted or not, because it is a pivotal call in a big moment -- and Serena didn't deserve to be placed under that kind of mental stress when she's already losing. Did she react badly? Sure. Do I feel like it's obviously understandable why given the treatment she has received over the course of her career and how hard she has worked to prove her ability is valid, especially why that would make her react really poorly to being called a cheater? Also yes.
She let her emotions get the best of her, but Osaka is also good enough to beat her without that. They should have had the chance to have that kind of ending and I don't feel like the two women need to be treated as though one must be entirely responsible for the circumstances in order to sympathize with the other. I think the circumstances were shitty for both of them.
RE: enforcing the rules more or less strongly during a final - I'm of many minds. Umpires have always used the rules loosely, so I don't think it's ridiculous to ask them to continue to be loose during a final. Maybe that translates to giving a player a warning during a changeover for taking too long between points (and maybe even a second warning) before officially calling them out on it. Everyone knows Nadal takes three minutes between points, but he doesn't get the violation every single time.
Edit: As for this match, the only one that I think really should have slid was the coaching. The other two are indisputable IMO.
Edit: As for this match, the only one that I think really should have slid was the coaching. The other two are indisputable IMO.
User banned (3 days): hostile accusations and inflammatory generalizations towards other members
So many fake progressives in this thread sucking the cocks of other sexist people. Just because they enjoy seeing a powerful woman shot down.
This would never have happened to a man. Period.
This would never have happened to a man. Period.
go to the political thread and make something out of nothing.
I'm not claiming she's wrong that she has less leeway with the rules due to her gender.
However, that doesn't mean that she was in the right to be violating them. Those rules can be enforced at any time, no?
My own solution to that would be being more stringent on men as well.
(I see how the call being made on a woman can be seen as sexist treatment, so I'll retract these couple bits.)
Also, I frankly find your implication that anyone who thinks she was possibly in the wrong here "enjoys seeing powerful women torn down" insulting.
Furthermore, as I stated above, you don't have to dismiss there being possibly sexist treatment here to find fault with Williams' behavior, either.
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Because that makes too much sense, of course. Make the coach watch on TV in the locker room for god's sake and solve the issue for good.
Serena is undeniably the greatest but even the best have their worst days. She knows she should have dropped the argument in hindsight but in that moment I guess she the thought she could turn it around. It's tennis which has a history of players verbally abusing umpires (which is weird considering how stodgy the game can be), but you're always playing with fire by fucking with the official in charge.
Also LOL at someone trying to compare this to LeBron going nuts after dingbat JR Smith blew Game 1 of the finals. If your teammate fucks up that bad you have full green light to go absolutely nuclear.
I mean she was playing against a woman. And plenty of men received penalties for talking back in tennis. I'm really confused what kind of point Serena was trying to make when she brought gender into this discussion. And what's up with her mentioning that she is a mom? What does that have to do with rules of tennis?
Her mistake was thinking that there was literally any chance in hell of the umpire retracting the violation. It seems like she honestly thought that after saying she would never cheat that he forgave her and took it away. That would never happen ever. Line calls that are factually proven wrong after the fact are not changed (outside of challenges, obviously).
This was actually explained to me already by another poster.
I was talking about different interpretation of rules in a final. How is this a valid comparison?
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Why do people keep saying this like it counters what people obviously mean when they say that they think the call is sexist?
Nobody is saying it was done to make her, a woman, lose to a man. They are saying they do not believe the same call would have been made against a man of equal stature. Whether or not you disagree with that statement is something a person could argue, but saying that her opponent is another woman does not undermine or counter what people are very clearly saying and yet I keep seeing people point out that Osaka is a woman, over and over.
Yeah. We know.