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Jamesways

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,242
Minneapolis
Very controversial, I like the Demon's Souls remake more than Elden Ring.
I prefer the more focused levels and more simplistic gear leveling. And I prefer the lore.
That doesn't mean I think all of DeS is flawless, there are some bosses and areas I don't care for, but the early game stuff is amazing to me.

Plus I'm a graphics whore these days. I love the atmosphere and lighting of DeS. Again, not saying ER looks bad, I just really like the look of DeS, it blew me away when I got my ps5.

As mentioned already though, It's ok to like both, jeesh some ER threads bringing up enjoying old games is just taboo. ER is the pinnacle of all FS gaming, and no one should ever prefer the older games, ok I get it. Era in a nutshell, no one should be allowed to like things unless it coincides with what everyone else likes.

Also, For Honor is still the best weapon combat fighting game hands down.
 

Manu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,191
Buenos Aires, Argentina
I don't think this is controversial outside of Era but

Both NieR games are good, you dolts. Yes you can like Gestalt/Replicant more but jesus you don't need to shit on Automata every single time it's brought up

Both games have stuff they do better than the other, and both have very different philosophies/messages outside of some similar plot beats

The constant need to put Automata down at every chance some OG fans display *really* puts me off from interacting with the fanbase at times
 

Genesius

Member
Nov 2, 2018
15,771
Very controversial, I like the Demon's Souls remake more than Elden Ring.
I prefer the more focused levels and more simplistic gear leveling. And I prefer the lore.
That doesn't mean I think all of DeS is flawless, there are some bosses and areas I don't care for, but the early game stuff is amazing to me.

Plus I'm a graphics whore these days. I love the atmosphere and lighting of DeS. Again, not saying ER looks bad, I just really like the look of DeS, it blew me away when I got my ps5.

As mentioned already though, It's ok to like both, jeesh some ER threads bringing up enjoying old games is just taboo. ER is the pinnacle of all FS gaming, and no one should ever prefer the older games, ok I get it. Era in a nutshell, no one should be allowed to like things unless it coincides with what everyone else likes.

Also, For Honor is still the best weapon combat fighting game hands down.
Demon's Souls is my favorite From game, with Bloodborne at second.

ER is a solid fifth place.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,399
those meme GIFs Sony studios make for their big releases are so awful

the Antonio Banderas Joel was hilarious but every one afterwards is really lame
 

Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,355
Elden Ring is not a good game and there should be a ban on anymore threads about it because the 20 billion we already have is more than enough.
 

Vertpin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,920
Elden Ring is not a good game and there should be a ban on anymore threads about it because the 20 billion we already have is more than enough.
What don't you like about it? I think better said from your POV is that you don't necessarily like it, rather than calling it a bad game.

My personal hot take: I think that Nintendo should design their switch successor to be bulkier (but not as heavy as the deck) so that way we could get better graphics parity.
 

DWarriorSN

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,149
PA
Criticizing a game because it's a waste of your time is about them dumbest criticism there is, fuck your time.

Being a little exageratory but holy shit do i hate it.
 

Anustart

9 Million Scovilles
Avenger
Nov 12, 2017
9,082
Elden Ring is not a good game and there should be a ban on anymore threads about it because the 20 billion we already have is more than enough.

I'm a pretty big souls fan, but my god the worst time on this forum and the old place was near, during and after the launch of a FROM game.

Just an unending stream of topics.

There ends up being hundreds with a variation of this title:

New to souls! Tell me exactly how to play

Then all the others that show up.
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,730
I actually think it's a little concerning how little the industry got impacted by COVID, when it's all said and done. Yeah some games got delayed, but to me at least, there wasn't a notable shift in the quantity of releases on a year-to-year basis, and we still got shit like three different Pokemon games from 2021-2022, a game as ambitious as Elden Ring, a new Metroid game, a new Resident Evil game, a new Monster Hunter game, a new Forza, etc. These games had to have had huge sacrifices behind them and I'm imagining artists and programmers collaborating on Zoom long into the night while isolated from the outside world, trying to deal with the technical difficulties of remote work on top of already working on incredibly ambitious projects.
 

Genesius

Member
Nov 2, 2018
15,771
Criticizing a game because it's a waste of your time is about them dumbest criticism there is, fuck your time.

Being a little exageratory but holy shit do i hate it.
I hear what you're trying to say.

People get older and they get new priorities so they have less time to play games but still want the games to give them, in their limited window, what they used to get when they could sit down for eight hours straight.

That's not really the game's fault.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,534
Criticizing a game because it's a waste of your time is about them dumbest criticism there is, fuck your time.

Being a little exageratory but holy shit do i hate it.

Preach. Look where you are complaining about it, your time is nowhere as valuable as you believe it is. And if you're a RESPONSIBLE ADULT with RESPONSABILITIES and JOBS and KIDS like everyone else (really, stop using this as an argument, you're not special) then you're also old enough to properly manage your free time. Nobody is adding sidequests just to purposefully ruin your PRECIOUS time. Nobody is 'disrespecting' you because there's "bloat" and "grind" in your eyes. Get a grip.
 

Torpedo Vegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,834
Parts Unknown.
On the subject of games "Wasting my time" I'd rather deal with spending hours collecting boxes and crafting materials that I know are going to lead to a defined upgrade progression like in Assassin's Creed or Horizon and other general bloated games. Instead of spend hours running through the same, different, but the same, randomly generated dungeon/ biome praying that this time, maybe, hopefully that the RNG will give me items that synergize enough to let me get by in Rouge likes.
 

Deleted member 110527

Mar 11, 2022
1,311
Plus I'm a graphics whore these days.

Yes, I've got to agree with this... I find that the older I get, the more I'm legitimately further immersed into a game due to the visual presentation, and it generally will be a huge factor to my enjoyment of a game nowadays. It isn't the only thing, mind you, but I weight it much more heavily in my personal assessment of time spent with a game than I did back when I was just playing Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight mods as a kid, haha
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,339
Some titles definitely don't respect your time though.

Like, I'm playing Mafia 3 now and it's been a mostly fun experience. But here's a game system that exists:
  1. You can't see collectibles or enemies on your map/radar until you wiretap a box in the area (Ubisoft towers essentially). You also can't recruit racket bosses without tapping the box in their area.
  2. You can't wiretap a box unless you have three components to make the tap device.
    1. Components are only ever looted as single items.
  3. Once you have the components, you have to break the lock on the box, which is a two-step process:
    1. First, you gently align your thumbstick to the optimal angle on a circle
    2. Second, you press X when a metronome falls into the green zone (and the size of the zone is set by how close you got in step 1)
There's literally nothing fun here for this, at all. I'm fine with the boxes (bonus hot take: Ubisoft towers are good design, they clean up your map so you only see things you want to as you move into a region). But none of the "gameplay" to get a box flipped on is anything other than a timesink. I think if I timed myself running to collect 3 components, running back to the box, and then doing the lock-break process, it would be about 3-8 minutes (depending on your luck in finding the components). There are over 90 of those boxes, so you're looking at an insane amount of time spent on doing a completely pointless task.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,534
Some titles definitely don't respect your time though.

Like, I'm playing Mafia 3 now and it's been a mostly fun experience. But here's a game system that exists:
  1. You can't see collectibles or enemies on your map/radar until you wiretap a box in the area (Ubisoft towers essentially). You also can't recruit racket bosses without tapping the box in their area.
  2. You can't wiretap a box unless you have three components to make the tap device.
    1. Components are only ever looted as single items.
  3. Once you have the components, you have to break the lock on the box, which is a two-step process:
    1. First, you gently align your thumbstick to the optimal angle on a circle
    2. Second, you press X when a metronome falls into the green zone (and the size of the zone is set by how close you got in step 1)
There's literally nothing fun here for this, at all. I'm fine with the boxes (bonus hot take: Ubisoft towers are good design, they clean up your map so you only see things you want to as you move into a region). But none of the "gameplay" to get a box flipped on is anything other than a timesink. I think if I timed myself running to collect 3 components, running back to the box, and then doing the lock-break process, it would be about 3-8 minutes (depending on your luck in finding the components). There are over 90 of those boxes, so you're looking at an insane amount of time spent on doing a completely pointless task.

Does FF7 not respect your time because of Fort Kondor? Does Skyrim not respect your time because of lockpicking minigames? Does Myst not respect your time because you cant just hoard all the pages at once? They might not be fun, but its not the company purposefully setting up to waste YOUR valuable time you could be posting about it on resetera. Games can have unfun parts, its not a conspiracy, the devs just didnt get all the parts of their game right according to your taste. In Myst case for instance, the game is already short enough with you being able to only carry one page, and you're supposed to go back, put it in the book and listen to the message, one at a time, so you can better figure it out how the brothers are trying to trick you. If you could just put every page under your arm and listen to everything at once at the end of the game it would break the design of the game. You might not think that's fun and thats your prerrogative, but it wasnt Cyan fucking with your time or disrespecting you.
 

Necron

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,332
Switzerland
Very controversial, I like the Demon's Souls remake more than Elden Ring.
I prefer the more focused levels and more simplistic gear leveling. And I prefer the lore.
That doesn't mean I think all of DeS is flawless, there are some bosses and areas I don't care for, but the early game stuff is amazing to me.

Plus I'm a graphics whore these days. I love the atmosphere and lighting of DeS. Again, not saying ER looks bad, I just really like the look of DeS, it blew me away when I got my ps5.

As mentioned already though, It's ok to like both, jeesh some ER threads bringing up enjoying old games is just taboo. ER is the pinnacle of all FS gaming, and no one should ever prefer the older games, ok I get it. Era in a nutshell, no one should be allowed to like things unless it coincides with what everyone else likes.

Also, For Honor is still the best weapon combat fighting game hands down.
Not controversial... Elden Ring is great but I think I prefer Demon's Souls (remake), Bloodborne and Sekiro to it. Elden Ring feels like I'm playing "Dark Souls 4" essentially... not that that's a bad thing - I like the Dark Souls trilogy... but Elden Ring is "Big Dark Souls" with a lot of great decisions regarding its approach to Open World design. However overall, Elden Ring is somewhere in the middle for me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,013
Very controversial, I like the Demon's Souls remake more than Elden Ring.

Dunno if it's super controversial, but I completely agree with you as it happens.

I platinum-ed Elden Ring and I thoroughly enjoyed it, but after reflecting on it for the last few days, Elden Ring feels like a classic case of quantity over quality. It's endgame is utterly dire, the game's balance is all over the place, and the repetition and asset re-use is off the scale.

The comments about it redefining the open world genre feel weird as fuck to me too, given it pretty much replicates what Skyrim was doing many moons ago.

Demon's Souls Remake on the other hand is fucking magical and I adore it.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,913
JP
Preach. Look where you are complaining about it, your time is nowhere as valuable as you believe it is. And if you're a RESPONSIBLE ADULT with RESPONSABILITIES and JOBS and KIDS like everyone else (really, stop using this as an argument, you're not special) then you're also old enough to properly manage your free time. Nobody is adding sidequests just to purposefully ruin your PRECIOUS time. Nobody is 'disrespecting' you because there's "bloat" and "grind" in your eyes. Get a grip.
Nah, browsing Era is more fun than padding in a game with bad pacing/excessive grinding. Even if you have 10 hours a day to play games, it'd be wasteful to spend any amount of time on pointless grind.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,339
Does FF7 not respect your time because of Fort Kondor? Does Skyrim not respect your time because of lockpicking minigames? Does Myst not respect your time because you cant just hoard all the pages at once? They might not be fun, but its not the company purposefully setting up to waste YOUR valuable time you could be posting about it on resetera. Games can have unfun parts, its not a conspiracy, the devs just didnt get all the parts of their game right according to your taste. In Myst case for instance, the game is already short enough with you being able to only carry one page, and you're supposed to go back, put it in the book and listen to the message, one at a time, so you can better figure it out how the brothers are trying to trick you. If you could just put every page under your arm and listen to everything at once at the end of the game it would break the design of the game. You might not think that's fun and thats your prerrogative, but it wasnt Cyan fucking with your time or disrespecting you.

All of your examples involve core gameplay of the series in question.

What I'm talking about is completely extraneous. Basically nothing about the system in question in Mafia 3 relates to anything else in the game, from a narrative perspective and a gameplay perspective. You don't earn in-game items when you tap a box, you can't use the lootable components for anything other than tapping a box, and the lockbreaking mini game only applies to a few locked doors (not safes or lockboxes with money, you just hit X to open them).

Conspiracy is a strong word. But I do think it's intentional padding. Mafia 2 got criticism for being too short and they went overboard trying to avoid that with Mafia 3. I would be surprised if even a single dev thought the game was better for having most of this system.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,534
Nah, browsing Era is more fun than padding in a game with bad pacing/excessive grinding. Even if you have 10 hours a day to play games, it'd be wasteful to spend any amount of time on pointless grind.

I have a lot of adjectives to describe browsing Era and "fun" is pretty low on that list

All of your examples involve core gameplay of the series in question.

What I'm talking about is completely extraneous. Basically nothing about the system in question in Mafia 3 relates to anything else in the game, from a narrative perspective and a gameplay perspective. You don't earn in-game items when you tap a box, you can't use the lootable components for anything other than tapping a box, and the lockbreaking mini game only applies to a few locked doors (not safes or lockboxes with money, you just hit X to open them).

Conspiracy is a strong word. But I do think it's intentional padding. Mafia 2 got criticism for being too short and they went overboard trying to avoid that with Mafia 3. I would be surprised if even a single dev thought the game was better for having most of this system.

I can't speak for Mafia 3 since i havent played it so i'll take your word for it, but i was commenting on your overall statement of games "wasting your time" because experience taught me that 9 out of 10 of the complaints people have about "bloat" here is just gameplay elements they don't like/care about.
 

dskzero

Member
Oct 30, 2019
3,377
I don't think this is controversial outside of Era but

Both NieR games are good, you dolts. Yes you can like Gestalt/Replicant more but jesus you don't need to shit on Automata every single time it's brought up

Both games have stuff they do better than the other, and both have very different philosophies/messages outside of some similar plot beats

The constant need to put Automata down at every chance some OG fans display *really* puts me off from interacting with the fanbase at times
I've read more people saying Nier Gestalt is a terrible game despite the story and meta stuff than someone saying Automata was bad.

I didn't play Gestalt, just Replicant, and both were good IMO, despite Nier's insistence in trying to make me not have fun playing.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,984
there is no such thing as a game not respecting your time. Its a videogame, if you feel like your time is being wasted just... walk away from it? Its not the game not respecting your time, its you - if you choose to continue playing something you don't enjoy, well... that's all on you.

i also dont understand the obsession some people seem to have with wanting to clear all side content in an open world game. Why? I am fairly sure a lot of the ubisoft type open world games are not even designed to be fully cleared, its only if you really really happen to enjoy the game. But lots of people here pretend that its some required thing to do. I feel like a lot of people here would enjoy open world games more if they let go of the completionist mindset.
 

Star-Lord

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,855
I like elden ring but 80 hours in, the games cracks are showing more and more.

What I dislike:
-Horse combat is fucking awful
-Clipping where enemies hit you when you're behind walls
-repeating boss or lazy changes to make it harder aka 2 of the same boss
-Input delay is huge on PlayStation, for example on a horse and sprinting and want to jump and the game is delayed and takes a few seconds to register
-dungeons could use more variety
- better matchmaking the amount of disconnects is wild
I still think it's a solid 8.5-9/10 but it's too long and could use some trimming or variety changes.
 

Aaron D.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,356
there is no such thing as a game not respecting your time. Its a videogame, if you feel like your time is being wasted just... walk away from it? Its not the game not respecting your time, its you - if you choose to continue playing something you don't enjoy, well... that's all on you.

i also dont understand the obsession some people seem to have with wanting to clear all side content in an open world game. Why? I am fairly sure a lot of the ubisoft type open world games are not even designed to be fully cleared, its only if you really really happen to enjoy the game. But lots of people here pretend that its some required thing to do. I feel like a lot of people here would enjoy open world games more if they let go of the completionist mindset.

I kind of agree with this.

When you fire up any random title you're entering a contract to engage with its terms, and those T&C are going to vary from person to person.

I'm personally a bit of a nut for Mundane Job Simulators. Everything from Farming Simulator & Euro Truck Simulator to Viscera Cleanup Detail & PowerWash Simulator. These titles are the very definition of time sinks. From a certain perspective one could even argue tedious time sinks.

But that's what I'm there for. The Zen-like gameplay loops that I often find more therapeutic than a therapy session.

So to branch out if a game is "not respecting a players time" either through slow progress or filler-content, that's on the player who willingly chose to engage with the title itself or it's respective irritable content.

Also one man's garbage is another man's treasure when considering content bloat. Some people are younger and/or have limited funds, so a title that offers dozens of hours worth of side content could be considered a boon.
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,412
Intellectually I can respect the skill and dedication involved, but I've never been moved by or interested in Speed Running. It runs counter to my relationship with games, which looks to understand what mechanics & design are trying to communicate, not rip them apart at the seams and exploit/manipulate them to finish something as quickly as possible.

Somewhere in the back of my mind the Ryan Reynolds, "But Why" GIF plays on an endless loop whenever I'm confronted with one.
 

King Tubby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,543
For me a game not respecting my time is making routine actions unnecessarily slow, or making me do busywork that isn't compelling. If I'm going to be pressing the A button to harvest things 1000 times in your game, please don't make me stop and watch a 2 second animation each time. Don't make me spend 5 minutes farming materials to craft certain items if it's trivial to do so and just waste of time. At that point I'd rather cheat or install a mod that lets me skip the boring parts. It's like getting hours of my life back preemptively.
 

heathen earth

Member
Mar 21, 2020
2,007
Probably only controversial on Era: Red Dead Redemption 2 is a truly great game. One of the high points of video games as a medium, in fact.

Elden Ring just made me want to play Bloodborne and Sekiro again. It's Dark Souls XL size, which is fine. Just not for me. I have no one to blame but myself. I knew going in that I don't enjoy medieval-ish settings and didn't like the slow Dark Souls combat before, but I thought I'd give it a try anyway. I may go back to it, but my experience with the game was more annoying than anything else. It sure does look nice though!
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,400
Intellectually I can respect the skill and dedication involved, but I've never been moved by or interested in Speed Running. It runs counter to my relationship with games, which looks to understand what mechanics & design are trying to communicate, not rip them apart at the seams and exploit/manipulate them to finish something as quickly as possible.

Somewhere in the back of my mind the Ryan Reynolds, "But Why" GIF plays on an endless loop whenever I'm confronted with one.
this is me too. I see "OOT full game 7 minute speedrunning!" and it's just someone glitching through a wall to get to the end or something… I don't really get the appeal 😂
 

NoWayOut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,075
FromSoftware is mediocre at best when it comes to the technical aspect and coding of their games. Since the original release of DeS up to ER, they demonstrated over and over again that they either don't give a shit how their games run or they are completely incompetent in game engine development and optimization.
 

Bengraven

Powered by Friendship™
Member
Oct 26, 2017
27,060
Florida
You need to treat Chrono Cross as a spin-off, not a sequel.

It's a fucking 9/10 game and people drop the rating because it "shits on the original".
 

panda-zebra

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,746
Halo Infinite - a proposed GaaS game with a 10 year plan based largely around historic Halo multiplayer arena combat - confuses the ever living shit out of me on many levels. I suppose my controversial opinion is that the very idea of it is equally ignorant of its potential as it is flawed.

I just can't get my head around the concept of it and how or why people would continue to engage with the game for another 30 or 40 battle passes worth of the same when it exists in such a narrow and increasingly marginalised space in the current and evolving gaming landscape. Simply put, why is the PvP portion of this game now a F2P, battle pass and paid MTX affair? And when the decision was made to go this way, more importantly why does it all revolve around this small facet of what is Halo Infinite as a whole when there is potential and opportunity for so much more?

I doesn't look like many of the other current paid and F2P GaaS titles in what it offers, it appears distinctly old-fashioned and limited in scope. It sits alongside a paid Halo Infinite campaign boasting its own "open world" playground - why wasn't this the focus or at least something of equal relevance as the basis for an ongoing game experience to be formed around? The campaign will have an unspecified number of additions made to it in future from what I understand - nothing firm, nothing we know much about - but it is in no way connected to or leveraged by the live service... to me that's baffling.

Big open world full of massive possibilites left for the tumbleweeds to roll on through and the stuff they want you to keep coming back for, engage with regularly, spend money on, for 10 more years, is all based on decades old variations upon a theme shooting each other in little maps. 🤷‍♂️

In terms of GaaS potential, surely the biggest strength of Halo Infinite is that campaign world and expanding upon it (biomes, destinations, anything to mix it up - stuff you're probably doing anyway if you're continuing the story) with the kind of content that could be created to exploit it and bring it to life as a living, evolving space... kinda where GaaS stuff thrives. Yet you can't even co-op that stuff right now. Instead, Halo Infinite the live service game is confined to a small selection of bespoke PvP maps and modes. PvP with maps, I mean that's just standard stuff, right? Stuff that's been around for many, many years. You put some new maps out, people play new maps... it took 6 years to craft this ongoing serivce game but no part of that was planning how the open world could or should be exploited in an ongoing manner? Just those game modes in return for trinkets, eh? That's some half-arsed GaaS.

I don't particularly want go use the D-word, but I'm gonna have to use the D-word. You're always going to get compared on some level or other to one or more of the successful/juggernaut GaaS games and that one is the closest there is if you're selling something ongoing with recurring payments and MTX when you're calling yourself a live service FPS. A seasonal re-up F2P FPS GaaS that relies heavily on its sublime gunplay variety and pure, raw fun mechanics... Destiny. I posted in the past that I wrongly assumed Halo Infinite would end up having a bit more of the Destinies about it than just being more good old Halo with a more convaluted monetisation, it just seemed as obvious as it was inevitible. I imagined it'd leverage its open world in similar ways that Destiny does with its locations. Blame me? In Destiny I see a game exploiting every facet of what it is and what it has when it comes to the variety and value it offers for your recurring and one-off MTX payments. I don't see any of that with Halo Infinite and I can't understand why. It's a poor proposition as a GaaS. Halo Infinite wants to be a one, wants all the revenue and engagement opportunities of a modern GaaS, but does nothing with the wealth of assets it has in its locker. It's just PvP, not even all that much of it, with a fairly awful game-screwing, challenge-based battle pass strap on. It could be so much more, and without compromising what the PvP is and means to the faithful (and I'm fairly cartain it hasn't managed to achieve far on the whole). Halo needs to go to new places or resign itself to a continued decline after once being the pinnacle xbox franchise IMO.

Destiny's Crucibe and Gambit clearly aren't on the same level as Halo multiplayer, I'm not suggesting that at all. There's no fair comparisson there, it's a whole different level of thing. Mid at best, shit-tier in some ways and definitely largely ignored for years on the development side. But it's just PvP... "just"... it's not the be all and end all. A tiny fraction of the whole, and as that tiny fraction it serves a purpose. Basic as it is, and to be fair there is variety and something for players of various persuasions/skill levels (The rotating modes, Trials, Iron Banner, Gambit), Destiny's PvP and PvPvE are a blip in what is the Destiny GaaS. Patrol, Strikes/Battlegrounds, seasonal activities, public events, lost sectors, replayable story missions, nightfalls, raids all in an array of biomes/locations, whatever - the list goes on and any and all of that can work towards your seasonal pass progress and overall character/build progress. You can play whatever you want from Destiny and end up in the same place, progress the same larger goals, work your way up the 100 boxes of season pass. Couldn't Halo Infinite do things like this to open itself up to more than just a dwindling first person arena shooter PvP crowd? Especially when so much effort has been expended on crafting the sandbox?

I'm not suggesting Halo Infinite become a clone of Destiny, not at all. But surely if you want that revenue, you want that engagement, you want people coming back day after day, week after week for the next decade, you've got to look beyond - far beyond - having people shoot each other in little box maps for stickers and tassles and lean into all that good work you did creating the world of the campaign to offer more.
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,190
FromSoftware is mediocre at best when it comes to the technical aspect and coding of their games. Since the original release of DeS up to ER, they demonstrated over and over again that they either don't give a shit how their games run or they are completely incompetent in game engine development and optimization.
I think this is a BIT hyperbolic, but also want to point out From's games have always had performance issues since literally the first King's Field. I just think it's a thing they don't prioritize for whatever reason.
 

TheWildCard

Member
Jun 6, 2020
2,329
FromSoftware is mediocre at best when it comes to the technical aspect and coding of their games. Since the original release of DeS up to ER, they demonstrated over and over again that they either don't give a shit how their games run or they are completely incompetent in game engine development and optimization.
Doesn't strike me terribly controversial even among From fans tbh.

I'll echo that I don't understand the appeal of speed running either. Picking a game apart and figuring out how everything works I can understand, but playing something over and over to the point the experience dissolves into inputs and code seems like a big waste of time to me. It surprises me how many people enjoy watching speedrunners, but if people can raise money for good causes more power to them I guess.
 
Oct 29, 2017
715
After about 10 hours, I returned Breath of the Wild because I found it extremely boring

I've owned the game twice. Once at launch, and after 10 hours or so, I wasn't enjoying my time. A year later, reading about some BotW love, figured it deserved another shot… same deal. And now here I am, playing and loving Elden Ring, and obviously a lot of conversations that bring up each - has me actually contemplating a third attempt.
 

fixing ranger

Member
Aug 24, 2021
553
I've owned the game twice. Once at launch, and after 10 hours or so, I wasn't enjoying my time. A year later, reading about some BotW love, figured it deserved another shot… same deal. And now here I am, playing and loving Elden Ring, and obviously a lot of conversations that bring up each - has me actually contemplating a third attempt.

It depends what you like about Elden Ring. I haven't played it, but it seems the main focus is the combat, and if it is a dealbreaker for you, BotW won't do it for you: the combat is pretty simple, and while experimenting with elements is cool, it did become stale for me. Personally, I played about 40 hours and explored almost the whole map and just lost interest afterwards. Climbing mountains is cool, but lore, characters and (side) quests were boring, so there was nothing more in it for me.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,021
About "respecting your time", there's an argument to be had about how some games can have like long load times, long repetitive animations which add little-to-nothing to the experience, etc. It's not necessarily poor criticism.

But yes, I mostly agree that videogames (much like any other entertainment) is there to "waste your time" in the first place. If you're not having fun anymore, I dunno, maybe just stop playing it? And I say this as someone who often don't stop playing when the game starts to bore me if I'm not too far from the ending so that I can "finish" the game.

I feel like a lot of people here would enjoy open world games more if they let go of the completionist mindset.
If there's one 100% unadulterated controversial opinion I have, it's that I wish people would stop telling others how they should play their goddamn games. It's one thing to (try to) recommend a game (or not) based on other people's tastes, it's another thing to tell them how they should play their games. There's no "right" way to play a game. There may be more or less optimal ways to play based on for example how the designers envisioned playing, thus designed the experience, but don't go sayin' to someone playing with a completionist mindset that they're playing it wrong and burning themselves out of the game (or to someone beelining the game that they're in compulsive consumerist mindset and not fully enjoying all the game has to offer).

E.g. if in BotW someone burns themselves out trying to find all 202826383 Korok seeds, it's neither the game's fault nor the player's fault. It just so happens that there was an inadequacy between the game's proposal (Korok seeds are all over the place so that in any random playthrough you'd find enough of them for decent inventory upgrades), and the player's OCD driving them to 100% the game even though it's clearly not designed that way.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,913
JP
Can't agree with your takes on "respecting the player's time". You've never played a game with blatant padding? Elements that could be streamlined resulting in better pacing?

It doesn't matter if gaming is not a productive activity - most of us have limited gaming time, so saying some games waste our time is perfectly valid criticism.

On that note, a good game can't take hours to become good, let alone an entirely playthrough. That's like saying "this cake is delicious, but only after the fourth slice".
 

Deleted member 93841

User-requested account closure
Banned
Mar 17, 2021
4,580
A bit of a forum whine, but it's annoying me a bit how many Elden Ring threads are popping up again when many of them would have been okay to post in the OT. I woke up today and first thing I did was put 3 Elden Ring threads on ignore.
 

Turnscr3w

Member
Jan 16, 2022
5,175
Kingdom Hearts represent something very unique in story telling in our current world. I think the biggest appeal to KH is the fact that it feels like fanfiction, because of that, it's easier to get excited about it because you can never fully expect what would happen with the IPs they are using. In a way just by existing KH shows us a world where culture and art is free to be used by anyone without the fear of copyright. We need everything to be public property, just look at Hades even, the writers are using greek mythologies as an inspiration to create their own world.